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Reply #63: First Cheney, and then a domino effect... [View All]

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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-23-07 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #45
63. First Cheney, and then a domino effect...
Impeachment is seen by too many as just revenge for Clinton's absurd impeachment. The Dems need to get it straight in their own heads, first, that no, they are not just playing a revenge game, but are doing what they were elected to do in beginning impeachment proceedings -- which will be a public airing of our filthy laundry, and will cause Congresspersons to go on record as supporting this criminal administration, or not.

The Moyers piece you refer to is superb. The point is made there very strongly by a conservative Republican that impeachment is not just to try to divest ourselves of Bush and Cheney. It's needed to squelch any setting of precedent for future presidents, Dem or Repub. Power is seductive, and I haven't seen anything from the Dems of late that assures me that they wouldn't be happy to step into the presidency and continue to chip away at our freedoms. If they won't step up to the plate and take a swing at a home run for democracy now, why should we assume they'll do that if they win in 2008? And there is an "if" in the sentence that precedes this one.

There's an old expression that we need to keep repeating to the Dems: "Those who lie down with dogs rise up with fleas." And we ain't having no flea-bitten dogs occupying the White House, no matter what party they belong to.

History is filled with examples of those who tried to pacify tyrants by giving just a little more, and a little more. It has never worked, and it isn't working now.

I spent last night talking with wonderful activist Democrat friends, a couple in their 70's, and we discussed our crisis every which way from sundown. The man, a lawyer, was describing how he felt that he might succumb to his shock when he heard the Bush v. Gore decision which said that a continued recount would "cause irreparable harm" to Bush. You don't have to be a lawyer to know that it was complete and utter b.s., and it is a mark of how jaded we've become as a nation that we let it happen -- We the People.

We talked last night about the energy and the integrity which have driven the people of other nations to the streets very recently, when the same kinds of propaganda ploys have been tried. My lawyer friend said last night that we've had large demonstrations in D.C., and now we need to get ourselves there in our enraged millions to say that this coup d'etat which took place in 2000 *WILL NOT STAND*!

Every day I ask myself if this nation has become so dumbed down that we're just going to shuffle into that "good" night like sheep, or if we can rally a sufficient percentage of the people who are awake enough to carry water for the whole!

We the People are crying for constitutional "bread," and we're basically being told to eat cake and shut up.

It's 2 hours and 50 minutes into Monday, EST. Let us see what this day brings. We're down to it now. We need an impeachment sweep from the top down, and we need inherent contempt proceedings *on the table*!

Off the soapbox for now!

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  -Ending the Iraq Occupation vs Impeachment: Which do you choose? Vyan  Jul-22-07 12:20 PM   #0 
  - illogical-- false choices. eom  Tom Joad   Jul-22-07 12:24 PM   #1 
  - Totally agree - false premise/choices eom  hisownpetard   Jul-22-07 12:34 PM   #9 
     - One thing that is driving me insane is when people discourage impeachment...  hisownpetard   Jul-22-07 12:45 PM   #16 
        - And how wrong would it be  Vyan   Jul-22-07 12:51 PM   #18 
        - They've been laughing and will continue to laugh (heh-heh-heh)  hisownpetard   Jul-22-07 01:08 PM   #25 
        - Too soon? What are you waiting for -- interment camps?  defendandprotect   Jul-22-07 02:54 PM   #37 
           - We already have one  Vyan   Jul-22-07 03:03 PM   #39 
        - We did do that in WWII for a long time. Roosevelt...  puebloknot   Jul-23-07 03:19 AM   #66 
  - Both! One thing leads to another... nt  babylonsister   Jul-22-07 12:26 PM   #2 
  - Amen  YDogg   Jul-22-07 12:27 PM   #3 
  - But if you fail at one....  Vyan   Jul-22-07 12:36 PM   #11 
     - I have no answer as failure is also hypothetical.  babylonsister   Jul-22-07 12:57 PM   #19 
     - Conyers is close...  Vyan   Jul-22-07 01:01 PM   #21 
     - Even a failed impeachment vote is an impeachment process on public record  rocknation   Jul-22-07 01:20 PM   #27 
        - And that's what we'd like to emulate?  Vyan   Jul-22-07 02:02 PM   #33 
           - I THINK the case against Bush is stronger than the case against Clinton...  rocknation   Jul-22-07 03:03 PM   #40 
           - Yes, much stronger...  Vyan   Jul-22-07 03:22 PM   #44 
           - Well....yes!!!! Illicit sex vs. murder, rape, illegal war, malfeasance...  puebloknot   Jul-23-07 03:12 AM   #65 
           - Yeah, that's why we want it.  tavalon   Jul-22-07 10:38 PM   #60 
  - I pick both  Jack Rabbit   Jul-22-07 12:29 PM   #4 
  - And seriously...  Vyan   Jul-22-07 12:34 PM   #8 
     - Response  Jack Rabbit   Jul-22-07 12:50 PM   #17 
        - I agree  Vyan   Jul-22-07 12:59 PM   #20 
           - Let me dispute some facts  Jack Rabbit   Jul-22-07 01:33 PM   #30 
              - Fact Checking  Vyan   Jul-22-07 01:57 PM   #32 
                 - Response  Jack Rabbit   Jul-22-07 06:43 PM   #48 
                    - I'm not suggesting  Vyan   Jul-23-07 02:17 PM   #67 
                       - Impeachment as a shorthand term  Jack Rabbit   Jul-23-07 05:03 PM   #72 
                          - I understand the confusion...  Vyan   Jul-24-07 12:07 AM   #76 
  - Both  sellitman   Jul-22-07 12:31 PM   #5 
  - Both!  ClayZ   Jul-22-07 12:32 PM   #6 
  - We can do both. I would suggest that most dems (not the ones in  acmavm   Jul-22-07 12:32 PM   #7 
  - Your false dichotomy is part of the problem, not part of the solution.  John Q. Citizen   Jul-22-07 12:35 PM   #10 
  - You did read the post right?  Vyan   Jul-22-07 12:37 PM   #13 
  - Impeaching Cheney is the best way out of Iraq - even if removal fails  EpiDave   Jul-22-07 03:30 PM   #45 
     - First Cheney, and then a domino effect...  puebloknot   Jul-23-07 02:08 AM   #63 
  - Thank you  tavalon   Jul-22-07 10:40 PM   #61 
  - Thank you - excellent post.  MH1   Jul-22-07 12:36 PM   #12 
  - There's nothing wrong with passion....  Vyan   Jul-22-07 12:38 PM   #15 
  - Unfortunately and realistically  Inuca   Jul-22-07 12:37 PM   #14 
  - endeavouring to misuse the Central Intelligence Agency, an agency of the United States;  PoconoPragmatist   Jul-22-07 01:04 PM   #22 
  - And Delay is under indictment  Vyan   Jul-22-07 01:08 PM   #24 
     - Gotcha  PoconoPragmatist   Jul-22-07 01:24 PM   #28 
        - Not really...  Vyan   Jul-22-07 01:33 PM   #29 
           - But...  PoconoPragmatist   Jul-22-07 02:59 PM   #38 
              - DING DING DING! PoconoPragmatist, you're our grand prize winner!  rocknation   Jul-22-07 03:19 PM   #41 
              - I used to feel that way too....  Vyan   Jul-22-07 03:20 PM   #42 
                 - Then You Are A Bigger Person Than I Am  PoconoPragmatist   Jul-22-07 10:27 PM   #57 
                 - I think Removal  Vyan   Jul-23-07 02:18 PM   #68 
                 - Progressed and matured to a false dichotomy  tavalon   Jul-22-07 10:41 PM   #62 
                    - How about...  Vyan   Jul-23-07 02:19 PM   #69 
  - i was actually planning to make a post with this same question  LordJFT   Jul-22-07 01:08 PM   #23 
  - It it is an either/or...cutting funding for war wins out  pstans   Jul-22-07 01:12 PM   #26 
  - False choice -- WE CAN DO BOTH AT THE SAME TIME . . .  defendandprotect   Jul-22-07 01:35 PM   #31 
  - I completely disagree--Impeachment is the right way.  broadcaster   Jul-22-07 02:20 PM   #34 
  - Ending the occupation of Iraq  jmp   Jul-22-07 02:50 PM   #35 
  - Would prefer both. But must navigate a landscape that may not  Old Crusoe   Jul-22-07 02:52 PM   #36 
  - Walk and chew gum at the same time?  Sees Clearly   Jul-22-07 03:21 PM   #43 
  - I read the first two paragraphs and had already made up my mind:  DutchLiberal   Jul-22-07 05:22 PM   #46 
  - If they Impeach and Don't Remove  Vyan   Jul-23-07 02:31 PM   #70 
     - What are you talking about?  DutchLiberal   Jul-23-07 05:08 PM   #73 
        - Yet again...  Vyan   Jul-24-07 12:15 AM   #77 
           - So you'd settle for 'a little truth' from Meirs and Bolten?  DutchLiberal   Jul-24-07 03:16 PM   #79 
              - We don't yet have anything that directly implicates Bush...  Vyan   Jul-25-07 02:43 AM   #80 
                 - We have nothing against Bush??????????  DutchLiberal   Jul-25-07 07:25 AM   #83 
  - Simply, I favor House and Senate actions to end the occupation in Iraq.  pinto   Jul-22-07 06:00 PM   #47 
  - Impeachment- the Constitution stands above all else  Fiendish Thingy   Jul-22-07 06:58 PM   #49 
  - Incredibly insightful post  karynnj   Jul-22-07 07:00 PM   #50 
  - Meaningful ACTION requires legal challenges to executive over reaching  TorchesAndPitchforks   Jul-22-07 07:53 PM   #51 
  - Both! They're not mutually exclusive.  diane in sf   Jul-22-07 08:16 PM   #52 
  - So, then, why don't we just curl up in the fetal position and ...  puebloknot   Jul-22-07 08:30 PM   #53 
  - Right on Pueblo  EpiDave   Jul-22-07 09:46 PM   #54 
  - I just noticed your three posts! Welcome to DU!!! nt  puebloknot   Jul-23-07 02:58 AM   #64 
  - When you can WIN. n/t  Vyan   Jul-23-07 02:32 PM   #71 
     - Something irreplaceable has gone out of the American character...  puebloknot   Jul-23-07 08:47 PM   #74 
        - That's not the point....  Vyan   Jul-23-07 11:48 PM   #75 
           - Impeachable offenses are already on the record. If the will existed to impeach...  puebloknot   Jul-24-07 03:40 AM   #78 
              - With all due respect...  Vyan   Jul-25-07 02:55 AM   #81 
                 - I'm aware of Dean's views. Here's my response to them...  puebloknot   Jul-25-07 02:08 PM   #84 
  - After watching Bill Moyers Journal  jenmarie   Jul-22-07 10:14 PM   #55 
  - Without enough votes, neither will happen  zulchzulu   Jul-22-07 10:26 PM   #56 
  - Doesn't it require a majority to fund the war?  penguin7   Jul-22-07 10:31 PM   #58 
  - It's not an either/or situation  tavalon   Jul-22-07 10:35 PM   #59 
  - Here we go...  Mythsaje   Jul-25-07 03:16 AM   #82 
  - Those are not "either or" choices. We can do both. n/t  LWolf   Jul-25-07 05:05 PM   #85 

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