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Reply #58: If I may speak to my friend wyldwolf's points [View All]

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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-08-07 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
58. If I may speak to my friend wyldwolf's points
Most sources give Emanuel the lion's share of credit for 2006 wins. Not everyone worships at the alter of Howard Dean.

As the saying goes, success has a thousand fathers. I think that the extent of our victories in 2006 was big enough that paternity could be shared among many people. I have no doubt that Rahm Emanuel, as head of the DCCC, should get a lot of the credit for taking back the House. But we also won in many other races, many of which didn't get much national attention. For example, Democrats took over the county government in Hays County, Texas, a rural county that is becoming suburban. In Dallas County, every single Republican judge on the ballot was swept out of office. And while victories like these may not have the immediate impact on the nation that national races have, they do affect peoples' everyday lives as well as building the farm team from which our future national politicians will arise. And I'm going to insist that this is the level where Dean's "run everywhere" strategy has its impact.

To be sure, there were disagreements over allocation of resources in 2006. I view this like a military battle. Every commander on the field sees the piece of ground he's fighting over as the most important sector, the most deserving of support and reinforcement. The general commanding has to make some tough decisions about when and where to commit his reserves. If the decisions he makes are by and large good ones, the army as a whole wins. If he makes poor choices, he may "win" the sector that he reinforces while losing the overall battle because of some catastrophe elsewhere on the field.

Afterwords you can continue to argue over what might have happened if X had been done instead of Y, but I think it's hard to argue with winning the overall battle.

Dean activists are far wealthier, better educated, more secular and much less ethnically diverse than other Democrats. A disproportionate number of Dean activists are white, well-educated Baby Boomers ­ fully a third are college graduates between the ages of 45 and 64, compared with just 9% of Democrats in the general public.


I hope you're not going to hold our relative wealth, education, or whiteness against us. We are a big tent party, after all.

Throughout the whole Dean "movement," non-Dean Democrats were always amazed at how Dean supporters believed canvassing was a new thing. That sentiment isn't surprising coming from folks who were, for the most part, new to politics.



Speaking as one of those Dean supporters, canvassing WAS a new thing for a lot of us because we came from places where canvassing just wasn't being done. We had to learn to knock on doors because there had just never been Democratic machine foot soldiers to show us how it was done.

From my own experience, I bought a house in Southwestern Austin in 1996. The first time I ever saw any political flyers of any description in my neighborhood was in 2004 when I walked the precinct by myself during early voting (although back in 2000 I do recall the republican precinct chair knocking on my door and offering me some pictures of aborted fetuses). In 2004 the incumbent GOP state representative and county commissioner both were re-elected without opposition. However, the influx of new door-knockers and voter registrars and phone bankers did allow us to defeat one republican incumbent state rep, come within a few hundred votes of beating another, as well as winning every countywide race we contested. Since then, the one remaining republican judge flipped parties and we've elected a solidly Democratic legislative delegation, including winning the seat we didn't even contest in 2004. And my Republican county commissioner knows he's got a target on his back for 2008.

True, back in 2004 we were idealistic and naive. But since then those of us who have remained active have gone through several elections. We're not as new and inexperienced as we were back then. Some have gone from knocking on doors for the first time in 2004 to running campaigns in 2005 to running winning campaigns in 2006. And may I say, hurray for us! Any party that doesn't get an infusion of new, enthusiastic activists from time to time is doomed to extinction. And naturally there will be conflicts between the new people and the old. I myself am looking forward to some young know-it-alls to pry the party out of our tired, arthritic hands some ten or twenty years from now.
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  -This part of the new book about Rahm is not very pleasant. madfloridian  May-07-07 11:17 PM   #0 
  - Sounds like "good-government idealist" (i.e. moron, tool, patsy)  Kagemusha   May-07-07 11:23 PM   #1 
  - Gee wish would you rather be called a goo goo or a member of the Daley machine?  karynnj   May-07-07 11:33 PM   #4 
     - No shit. -eom  Justitia   May-08-07 12:11 AM   #7 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   May-07-07 11:26 PM   #2 
  - " POS "  jaysunb   May-07-07 11:31 PM   #3 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   May-07-07 11:40 PM   #5 
  - Fuck Rahm Emanuel. Fuck him right in the ear.  jgraz   May-07-07 11:41 PM   #6 
  - errr...No Thanks!  progressoid   May-08-07 03:01 PM   #81 
  - The Salon writer calls it a celebration of Rahm.  madfloridian   May-08-07 12:56 AM   #8 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   May-08-07 02:48 AM   #9 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   May-08-07 04:12 PM   #97 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   May-08-07 04:37 PM   #100 
  - I say harness the guy  tkmorris   May-08-07 03:28 AM   #10 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   May-08-07 03:32 AM   #11 
  - I like Rahm Emanuel.  AtomicKitten   May-08-07 04:39 AM   #12 
  - Thank you for that.  murielm99   May-08-07 06:07 AM   #16 
  - very good post, and on your point about Howard Dean  wyldwolf   May-08-07 10:03 AM   #34 
  - It was the "pragmatic"chairman Dean that Rahm was bullying.  madfloridian   May-08-07 10:25 AM   #35 
     - poooor Dean!  wyldwolf   May-08-07 10:29 AM   #36 
     - Yeah poor Dean. . .  wndycty   May-08-07 01:15 PM   #62 
     - It should be pointed out that Dean is not the one whining about Rahm...  SaveElmer   May-08-07 01:22 PM   #64 
        - of course he's not  AtomicKitten   May-08-07 01:37 PM   #67 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   May-09-07 01:38 AM   #123 
     - apparently he yells at everyone  tigereye   May-13-07 05:54 PM   #132 
  - Are you familiar with wht Dean has been doing?  Morgana LaFey   May-08-07 04:39 PM   #101 
     - Nobody was criticizing your precious Dean.  murielm99   May-08-07 05:10 PM   #109 
        - Good grief, woman -- my QUESTION to you -- still unanswered --  Morgana LaFey   May-08-07 06:57 PM   #117 
        - That is totally enough of the "cult" crap. It is silly and childish.  madfloridian   May-09-07 01:35 AM   #122 
  - Attomic Kitten recommends him? Now I KNOW he's on the wrong side.  loudsue   May-08-07 11:46 AM   #48 
     - your post is revealing as well, mam  AtomicKitten   May-08-07 01:19 PM   #63 
        - I've followed your posts.  loudsue   May-08-07 03:05 PM   #82 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   May-08-07 03:31 PM   #89 
           - duck and cover  AtomicKitten   May-08-07 03:36 PM   #92 
           - I stand by mine.  AtomicKitten   May-08-07 03:35 PM   #91 
  - ... but still very true (all insults to Dean aside)  wyldwolf   May-08-07 05:02 AM   #13 
  - I take issue with your point #2 - maybe that applies to 2004  Kagemusha   May-08-07 06:02 AM   #15 
  - #2 is for his supporters, not Dean himself  wyldwolf   May-08-07 06:10 AM   #17 
     - So it's believe them or my lyin' eyes.  Kagemusha   May-08-07 07:01 AM   #20 
        - What has your lyin' eyes seen?  wyldwolf   May-08-07 07:03 AM   #21 
           - Not so much bloggers as people commenting on open blogs.  Kagemusha   May-08-07 07:29 AM   #22 
              - "...people commenting on open blogs" who subscribe to that blog's POV  wyldwolf   May-08-07 07:31 AM   #23 
                 - Gave? GAVE? Excuse me?  Kagemusha   May-08-07 07:34 AM   #24 
                    - ... or you have a predisposition for faux outrage and veering off topic  wyldwolf   May-08-07 07:38 AM   #25 
                    - My outrage at the idea Congress is Emanuel's to give is quite genuine.  Kagemusha   May-08-07 07:41 AM   #26 
                       - your faux outrage stems from you not liking my use of one word.  wyldwolf   May-08-07 07:45 AM   #27 
                    - I think that was a good post, Kage....  loudsue   May-08-07 11:48 AM   #49 
  - If I may speak to my friend wyldwolf's points  NoPasaran   May-08-07 12:47 PM   #58 
  - Applause.  madfloridian   May-09-07 01:51 AM   #124 
  - "Rahm is right. It ain't Burlington."  LoZoccolo   May-13-07 05:34 PM   #126 
  - He's not popular among democrats in NC.  mmonk   May-08-07 05:55 AM   #14 
  - The party does not hand out money indiscriminately.  murielm99   May-08-07 06:15 AM   #18 
  - I'm talking a real chance to have picked off at least two seats  mmonk   May-08-07 06:35 AM   #19 
  - He is popular with Democrats in Congress  Freddie Stubbs   May-08-07 07:54 AM   #28 
  - I'm in NC, too, mmonk...and I totally agree w/ you.  loudsue   May-08-07 11:50 AM   #50 
  - "Goo goos" = "Good government"  NoPasaran   May-08-07 07:54 AM   #29 
  - Thanks for the explanation.  madfloridian   May-08-07 09:50 AM   #31 
  - Dem bashing! I'm lowering my expectations.  dogman   May-08-07 09:33 AM   #30 
  - Actually, it has been clear he sad those things to Dean...other sources.  madfloridian   May-08-07 09:55 AM   #32 
     - It's political gamesmanship.  dogman   May-08-07 10:44 AM   #37 
        - That was not fighting. That was smearing a man in his office.  madfloridian   May-08-07 10:47 AM   #38 
           - Facts are not smears.  dogman   May-08-07 11:07 AM   #40 
              - dogman, I don't know your politics, and I hope I don't offend you...  wyldwolf   May-08-07 11:11 AM   #41 
              - No offense taken.  dogman   May-08-07 01:50 PM   #70 
              - Yeah, but you go around imagining facts where there are none,  Morgana LaFey   May-08-07 04:42 PM   #102 
                 - I guess facts to you means "whatever feels right."  wyldwolf   May-13-07 05:40 PM   #127 
              - But he was not saying factual stuff in that office.  madfloridian   May-08-07 11:17 AM   #42 
                 - let's examine the factuality of it, then  wyldwolf   May-08-07 11:25 AM   #43 
                    - Right, there is no plan at all. You win.  madfloridian   May-08-07 11:31 AM   #44 
                       - you're a bit off  wyldwolf   May-08-07 11:38 AM   #45 
                          - Deleted message  Name removed   May-08-07 11:54 AM   #51 
                          - Deleted message  Name removed   May-08-07 12:02 PM   #52 
                             - So, progressives are traitors. Well, that didn't take long. -eom  Justitia   May-08-07 12:10 PM   #53 
                                - what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Wag your finger at the post I replied to.  wyldwolf   May-08-07 12:21 PM   #55 
                                   - ... and chastice her for saying centrists were traitors.  wyldwolf   May-08-07 01:39 PM   #68 
                          - Here is some research. And a word from the Chairman.  madfloridian   May-08-07 12:34 PM   #56 
                          - just a bit contradictory and too simplified  wyldwolf   May-08-07 01:13 PM   #61 
                             - You are misreading my post.  madfloridian   May-08-07 01:27 PM   #65 
                             - Are people not allowed to elaborate?  wyldwolf   May-08-07 01:28 PM   #66 
                             - Oh, how clever  Morgana LaFey   May-08-07 05:12 PM   #110 
                                - but it did not work  wyldwolf   May-13-07 05:41 PM   #128 
                          - "The races the DCCC threw money at..."  ieoeja   May-08-07 03:32 PM   #90 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   May-08-07 10:02 AM   #33 
  - LOL  paulk   May-08-07 10:53 AM   #39 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   May-08-07 11:42 AM   #46 
     - well, this isn't information I usually divulge, but  paulk   May-08-07 12:15 PM   #54 
     - spot-on, Paulk  wyldwolf   May-08-07 11:43 AM   #47 
        - Rahm is the man. . .  wndycty   May-08-07 12:55 PM   #59 
           - Yeah, what does Rahm know about grassroots and precinct canvasing?  dogman   May-08-07 01:45 PM   #69 
              - So he knows how to win the (big) blue districts.  ieoeja   May-08-07 03:44 PM   #94 
                 - The Clinton Presidential victory was not a big blue district.  dogman   May-08-07 11:26 PM   #120 
  - Hey, I know!  FrenchieCat   May-08-07 12:44 PM   #57 
  - She's vetting.  seasonedblue   May-08-07 01:06 PM   #60 
  - So is it not true that VErmont is a  tishaLA   May-08-07 02:13 PM   #71 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   May-08-07 02:19 PM   #72 
  - Exactly (N/T)  gaspee   May-08-07 02:56 PM   #78 
  - Rahm's NH debacle  BlueDogDemocratNH   May-08-07 02:45 PM   #73 
  - People want  gaspee   May-08-07 02:58 PM   #79 
  - The DLC has nothing to do with it  BlueDogDemocratNH   May-08-07 06:38 PM   #114 
  - It wasn't just NH -- Rahm screwed the pooch just about everywhere  jgraz   May-08-07 03:11 PM   #84 
  - Thanks for sharing that.  madfloridian   May-08-07 10:54 PM   #119 
  - Rahm is an ass  Jax   May-08-07 02:46 PM   #74 
  - Rahm's whole rant is off the mark, given that Dean is actually a New Yorker. n/t  quiet.american   May-08-07 02:48 PM   #75 
  - I was going to  gaspee   May-08-07 02:56 PM   #77 
  - The DLC  gaspee   May-08-07 02:55 PM   #76 
  - "I want a truly progressive party." Well start you own.  wyldwolf   May-08-07 03:00 PM   #80 
  - We're already supposed to have one...it begins with a "D".  Alexander   May-08-07 03:22 PM   #87 
     - no, it begins with a "p"  wyldwolf   May-08-07 03:27 PM   #88 
     - Truman was quite progressive - Mag's statement is bullshit.  Alexander   May-08-07 04:16 PM   #98 
        - Truman was as centrist as they come  wyldwolf   May-08-07 04:46 PM   #104 
           - Yeah, that civil rights plank was real "centrist"...  Alexander   May-08-07 04:58 PM   #105 
              - on the contrary  wyldwolf   May-08-07 05:00 PM   #106 
                 - You refuted your own argument.  Alexander   May-08-07 06:33 PM   #113 
                    - probably the funniest statement ever from you  wyldwolf   May-13-07 05:43 PM   #129 
     - Luckily, the "middle" is right where progressives are  jgraz   May-08-07 03:43 PM   #93 
        - Not so fast  wyldwolf   May-08-07 03:53 PM   #96 
           - Try these on for size.  Alexander   May-08-07 04:26 PM   #99 
              - ok, but again, how is that "in the middle?"  wyldwolf   May-08-07 04:43 PM   #103 
                 - Because the majority of Americans (left + center) agree with the left?  Alexander   May-08-07 05:00 PM   #107 
                    - So, if there is a left-center- AND right... and the majority of Americans agree with the left  wyldwolf   May-08-07 05:08 PM   #108 
                       - Your logic is entirely flawed.  Alexander   May-08-07 10:44 PM   #118 
  - It's happening. We just need to keep working at it.  jgraz   May-08-07 03:16 PM   #85 
  - how so?  wyldwolf   May-08-07 03:21 PM   #86 
  - Again, this isn't a DLC issue  BlueDogDemocratNH   May-08-07 06:43 PM   #116 
  - Another reason why Dean deserves much more credit for 2006.  Alexander   May-08-07 03:07 PM   #83 
  - Do DUers have a "clue" what Rahm and Dean were fighting about?  ieoeja   May-08-07 03:52 PM   #95 
  - Author has a post up at The Swamp.  madfloridian   May-08-07 05:28 PM   #111 
  - I dont like him  Fabio   May-08-07 05:39 PM   #112 
  - he's evidently good at what he does  Blue_Tires   May-08-07 06:43 PM   #115 
  - This blogger has some interesting comments....  madfloridian   May-09-07 01:26 AM   #121 
  - I was thinking....  madfloridian   May-13-07 05:17 PM   #125 
     - dupe  wyldwolf   May-13-07 05:51 PM   #130 
     - BS! Weeks before the midterms "you" were already trying to spin it  wyldwolf   May-13-07 05:51 PM   #131 
 

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