Reply #115: We have a significant number who would vote it down .... NOW.

[MADem]

But they could be moved to support it, with time, discussion, and frankly, a bit of horsetrading.

That is what Dave Obey, even minus a magic wand in his pocket, is actively trying to do, incrementally. First, though, we have to stop this war, and get those people onboard who have to vote AGAINST their interests in order to make that happen(and not just personal interests, the interests of their districts--if the body armor factory is in your district and gives jobs to 15% of your constituents, well, how is a war ending gonna affect them? How happy will THOSE voters be to see the war end? All politics IS local...but if some NEW business could be located in that guy's district and in essence, substituted for that body armor factory in the legislation, well, the pain is reduced...see?).

The party isn't finished. There are some people who think that a wounded, caged, and weakened Bush is a much more manageable option than a Bush tossed out on his ass and replaced by a snarling Cheney with a new broom and a new crew of Nazis who are better at hiding the evidence. Now, many don't agree with that point of view, but it IS a point of view that has currency in some corners of the party. It doesn't mean the person holding it is somehow disloyal or doesn't care. It's simply a difference in perspective.