Meldread
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Sun Jan-14-07 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #91 |
| 93. What do you think will happen, then? |
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That the Iraqi's will suddenly put down their weapons, embrace their new "democracy", reject the advances of Iran, and live happily ever after? Come on. You know that won't happen. That isn't the reality, because if it were this entire thread would be moot. The sham of a government either will collapse within the week or be propped up by Iran. No matter the outcome, if the Government collapses or if the government prevails, Iran will gain control of Iraq. Is that a favorable outcome to us or the world? No, it is not.
However, if you have a better idea than what I proposed, an idea that is favorable to American, regional, Iraqi and global interests... by all means I would like to hear it.
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| -The morality of abandoning Iraq: Why we should stay. |
Meldread |
Jan-13-07 05:45 PM |
#0 |
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Here is my take |
uppityperson |
Jan-13-07 05:51 PM |
#1 |
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I agree. |
Meldread |
Jan-13-07 06:00 PM |
#8 |
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no flame - I simply do not believe our staying in Iraq is helpful at this point. |
peacebird |
Jan-13-07 05:53 PM |
#2 |
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The problems with that. |
Meldread |
Jan-13-07 06:06 PM |
#10 |
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What evidence do you have that "We are the lesser of all the evils...?" |
John Q. Citizen |
Jan-13-07 07:02 PM |
#15 |
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Simple. |
Meldread |
Jan-13-07 07:25 PM |
#17 |
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Iran would like nothing better than normalized relations with the West. It's |
John Q. Citizen |
Jan-13-07 07:58 PM |
#23 |
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I agree with one point: |
Meldread |
Jan-13-07 08:41 PM |
#28 |
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Iran is still developing. They will get the fine points tuned on how to maintain |
John Q. Citizen |
Jan-14-07 03:49 PM |
#132 |
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So you would have the fools that did this continue to torment |
TexasProgresive |
Jan-13-07 05:54 PM |
#3 |
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That is why we have a Democratic Congress. |
Meldread |
Jan-13-07 06:09 PM |
#12 |
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Without a 2/3 majority to override the "Decider's" veto |
TexasProgresive |
Jan-13-07 07:13 PM |
#16 |
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Yes, I am well aware. |
Meldread |
Jan-13-07 07:35 PM |
#19 |
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"The vast majority of people here want to leave Iraq and never |
panader0 |
Jan-13-07 05:55 PM |
#4 |
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That is what I am proposing. |
Meldread |
Jan-13-07 06:16 PM |
#13 |
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our presence there is a crime against humanity- the first step... |
mike_c |
Jan-13-07 05:56 PM |
#5 |
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Well I am an American and I didn't support |
doc03 |
Jan-13-07 05:57 PM |
#6 |
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Bases. As what? Oases? Refuges for the "moderates"? |
aquart |
Jan-13-07 05:58 PM |
#7 |
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I for One Agree with You |
ribofunk |
Jan-13-07 06:06 PM |
#9 |
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Yes, I think a lot of people can't picture Iraq getting worse, but it can - far worse. |
Meldread |
Jan-13-07 06:36 PM |
#14 |
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I Beleive the Wrong Question is Often Ask |
ribofunk |
Jan-13-07 11:32 PM |
#58 |
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horrendous story, but you shouldn't let ur emotions |
NYCALIZ |
Jan-13-07 06:09 PM |
#11 |
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You cannot.. |
sendero |
Jan-13-07 07:32 PM |
#18 |
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You are over looking a simple fact. |
Meldread |
Jan-13-07 07:42 PM |
# |
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The whole point is.. |
sendero |
Jan-13-07 07:44 PM |
#21 |
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That is where I disagree. |
Meldread |
Jan-13-07 08:51 PM |
#30 |
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So... |
sendero |
Jan-14-07 09:06 AM |
#87 |
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First... |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 09:49 AM |
#92 |
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Radical elements? |
sendero |
Jan-14-07 11:45 AM |
#103 |
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So you are willing... |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 12:51 PM |
#110 |
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First, a question: Who is talking about abandoning Iraq? |
ProSense |
Jan-13-07 07:42 PM |
#20 |
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I read them, here is my responce. |
Meldread |
Jan-13-07 08:13 PM |
#25 |
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Staying in Iraq will |
ProSense |
Jan-13-07 08:30 PM |
#27 |
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Yes, I agree and that is exactly what I am suggesting. |
Meldread |
Jan-13-07 08:49 PM |
#29 |
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I said nothing about remaining in Iraq. |
ProSense |
Jan-13-07 09:07 PM |
#32 |
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What possible political and diplomatic solutions can be made? |
Meldread |
Jan-13-07 09:13 PM |
#34 |
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Whatever that solution is, it should be |
ProSense |
Jan-13-07 09:43 PM |
#35 |
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You see, that is the problem. |
Meldread |
Jan-13-07 09:57 PM |
#38 |
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We can leave |
ProSense |
Jan-13-07 10:10 PM |
#41 |
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Let me rephrase it, then. |
Meldread |
Jan-13-07 10:45 PM |
#48 |
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What will happen if the situation |
ProSense |
Jan-13-07 10:49 PM |
#49 |
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A question for you...if Little Boots attacks Iran will our military in effect. |
madfloridian |
Jan-13-07 07:50 PM |
#22 |
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Yes, it is true. |
Meldread |
Jan-13-07 08:58 PM |
#31 |
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Under the helm of Junior and his cast of felonious assclowns, |
AtomicKitten |
Jan-13-07 08:00 PM |
#24 |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the basic premis of your argument |
tnlefty |
Jan-13-07 08:30 PM |
#26 |
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I agree. |
Meldread |
Jan-13-07 09:09 PM |
#33 |
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It;s a civil war. If your kid wants to go, send him, or go yourself! |
EndElectoral |
Jan-13-07 09:47 PM |
#36 |
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No |
mmonk |
Jan-13-07 09:54 PM |
#37 |
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Dimwit Bush should have listened to McCain calling for |
fuzzyball |
Jan-13-07 10:02 PM |
#39 |
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Yes, we've lost Iraq |
Meldread |
Jan-13-07 10:08 PM |
#40 |
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Not until we give our military atleast 6 months to turn things around |
fuzzyball |
Jan-13-07 10:14 PM |
#42 |
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That is one of the problems. |
Meldread |
Jan-13-07 10:30 PM |
#45 |
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Russia, China and India are doing just too well economically to get |
fuzzyball |
Jan-13-07 10:59 PM |
#50 |
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But what is the response from Saudi Arabia? |
Meldread |
Jan-13-07 11:09 PM |
#53 |
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Only response Saudi's can deliver is money help to the sunni's |
fuzzyball |
Jan-14-07 02:11 PM |
#126 |
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Tough OP to respond to. You're right leaving isn't an option. It's an inevitability. |
Bucky |
Jan-13-07 10:23 PM |
#43 |
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Oh, I agree it's already happened. |
Meldread |
Jan-13-07 10:38 PM |
#46 |
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Oop - a dupe |
Bucky |
Jan-13-07 10:23 PM |
#44 |
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totally disagree - no flames though |
welshTerrier2 |
Jan-13-07 10:42 PM |
#47 |
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Thanks for your reply! |
Meldread |
Jan-13-07 11:00 PM |
#51 |
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"placing my faith in our Democratic Congress" |
welshTerrier2 |
Jan-13-07 11:11 PM |
#54 |
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As a general rule: You should never trust anyone in government. |
Meldread |
Jan-13-07 11:24 PM |
#56 |
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You are advocating that the rape victim spend more time with her rapist |
IndianaGreen |
Jan-13-07 11:08 PM |
#52 |
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That is idealistic, if flawed. |
Meldread |
Jan-13-07 11:20 PM |
#55 |
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Have you heard of the expression "white man's burden?" |
IndianaGreen |
Jan-14-07 12:03 AM |
#62 |
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That is crazy. |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 12:59 AM |
#69 |
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How many names do we want to see in a future Iraq War Memorial? |
IndianaGreen |
Jan-14-07 01:29 AM |
#71 |
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What I propose - less will die, both less Iraqi's and Americans. |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 01:48 AM |
#74 |
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The immediate no-holes barred withdraw of all troops from Iraq |
Clarkie1 |
Jan-14-07 12:00 AM |
#61 |
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Would you rather withdraw now, or would you rather shoot your way out later? |
IndianaGreen |
Jan-14-07 12:06 AM |
#63 |
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False choice. nt |
Clarkie1 |
Jan-14-07 12:28 AM |
#65 |
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I agree with you that we cannot simply withdraw 140,000 troops immediately |
Clarkie1 |
Jan-13-07 11:28 PM |
#57 |
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What the Democrats in Congress NEED to do... |
Meldread |
Jan-13-07 11:37 PM |
#59 |
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Problem is, Bush refuses to deal with Iraq's neighbors. nt |
Clarkie1 |
Jan-13-07 11:57 PM |
#60 |
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Yes we owe them reparations. No we should not stay. |
dailykoff |
Jan-14-07 12:15 AM |
#64 |
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Thanks Meldread for this serious thought provoking thread. |
Auntie Bush |
Jan-14-07 12:40 AM |
#66 |
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Thanks. |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 01:33 AM |
#73 |
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Immoral to go or stay. Bad for America to go or stay. |
gulliver |
Jan-14-07 12:41 AM |
#67 |
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WTF?!?!? AIR STRIKES!?!?! You're kidding, right? |
eridani |
Jan-14-07 12:55 AM |
#68 |
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Not indiscriminate. |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 01:24 AM |
#70 |
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You have just described what we already did to Fallujah |
eridani |
Jan-14-07 05:35 AM |
#77 |
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I agree with you on the airstrikes, but we're talking about more than dishes. |
Clarkie1 |
Jan-14-07 02:05 AM |
#75 |
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Really? Why does the fact that our destruction has been more intense-- |
eridani |
Jan-14-07 05:38 AM |
#78 |
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O.K., I'll meet you half-way. |
Clarkie1 |
Jan-14-07 06:28 PM |
#156 |
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We are utterly unable to fix the social problems we have unleashed as well |
eridani |
Jan-15-07 03:01 AM |
#165 |
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I think the only thing American that should stay there |
tavalon |
Jan-14-07 01:30 AM |
#72 |
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Phased redeployment combinded with renewed legitimate political/diplomatic efforts. |
ellisonz |
Jan-14-07 02:26 AM |
#76 |
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Un-fucking-believable |
MadHound |
Jan-14-07 06:56 AM |
#79 |
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Word. |
iwillalwayswonderwhy |
Jan-14-07 08:07 AM |
#81 |
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Okay, there is a bit of arrogance here |
iwillalwayswonderwhy |
Jan-14-07 07:53 AM |
#80 |
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Yes, you're correct. |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 09:15 AM |
#88 |
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I don't think there is anything moral |
iwillalwayswonderwhy |
Jan-14-07 10:20 AM |
#95 |
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So what are you suggesting as an alternative? |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 10:34 AM |
#96 |
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You don't understand |
iwillalwayswonderwhy |
Jan-14-07 01:46 PM |
#116 |
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I am aware. |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 01:58 PM |
#120 |
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I must disagree with your premise that the American people supported this war. |
BleedingHeartPatriot |
Jan-14-07 08:20 AM |
#82 |
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A .... "KINDER ...... GENTLER" ..... (arrogant) ....EMPIRE ??? |
charles t |
Jan-14-07 08:29 AM |
#83 |
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I'm not pretending... |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 09:25 AM |
#89 |
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Every day of our unjust occupation of Iraq is a thousand atrocities. |
personman |
Jan-14-07 08:38 AM |
#84 |
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The assumption is: |
kentuck |
Jan-14-07 08:47 AM |
#85 |
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Indeed, that's what got us into this war in the first place |
iwillalwayswonderwhy |
Jan-14-07 08:57 AM |
#86 |
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Yet we know that... |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 09:28 AM |
#90 |
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No, we don't "know" that... |
kentuck |
Jan-14-07 09:43 AM |
#91 |
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What do you think will happen, then? |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 09:57 AM |
#93 |
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It doesn't matter |
iwillalwayswonderwhy |
Jan-14-07 10:17 AM |
#94 |
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I'm sorry I disagree... |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 10:38 AM |
#97 |
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The immorality of staying in Iraq: Why the U.S. should withdraw. |
ProSense |
Jan-14-07 10:45 AM |
#98 |
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Then how do we do that? |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 11:00 AM |
#99 |
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Here is the |
ProSense |
Jan-14-07 11:07 AM |
#100 |
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Problems with that, point by point: |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 11:40 AM |
#102 |
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The plan is clear, it's not what you want it to be, it is what it is. |
ProSense |
Jan-14-07 11:58 AM |
#104 |
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You missed the points, in the end his proposal doesn't really differ from what Bush is doing. |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 12:19 PM |
#108 |
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That's completely ridiculous. |
ProSense |
Jan-14-07 12:46 PM |
#109 |
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Do you even understand what he is proposing? |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 12:59 PM |
#111 |
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You asked if there is something you misunderstand, so let me explain: |
ProSense |
Jan-14-07 01:22 PM |
#113 |
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...and how is anything that I stated incorrect? |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 01:29 PM |
#115 |
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OK! |
ProSense |
Jan-14-07 02:11 PM |
#125 |
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Here I'll prove you wrong: |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 03:11 PM |
#130 |
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"In reality, what I suggested is not radically different." No, it is. |
ProSense |
Jan-14-07 03:58 PM |
#134 |
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So, what? He says... |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 04:19 PM |
#138 |
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What exactly does this mean? |
ProSense |
Jan-14-07 04:30 PM |
#139 |
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No, no and no. |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 04:56 PM |
#142 |
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Here, |
ProSense |
Jan-14-07 05:04 PM |
#143 |
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That's funny. |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 05:24 PM |
#145 |
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You know, I am |
ProSense |
Jan-14-07 05:56 PM |
#150 |
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Here are the actual orders for re-deployment laid out. |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 06:16 PM |
#155 |
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That plan is |
ProSense |
Jan-14-07 06:39 PM |
#158 |
| -
and what if we leave? |
iwillalwayswonderwhy |
Jan-14-07 01:50 PM |
#118 |
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And what if they do? |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 02:04 PM |
#122 |
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You are overlooking one salient fact. |
charlyvi |
Jan-14-07 12:10 PM |
#107 |
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You are right, really, we don't have any moral ground to stand on. |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 01:18 PM |
#112 |
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Ah yes, the oil. So now we get down to the crux of the matter. |
charlyvi |
Jan-14-07 02:10 PM |
#124 |
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Lots of questions, I'll try and answer. |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 03:00 PM |
#129 |
| -
Thank you for your patient answers. |
charlyvi |
Jan-14-07 03:33 PM |
#131 |
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Thanks. |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 04:11 PM |
#136 |
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I agree with you on Powell. |
charlyvi |
Jan-14-07 04:19 PM |
#137 |
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Yes, and that is why... |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 04:39 PM |
#140 |
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That's a very good point Meldread. |
charlyvi |
Jan-14-07 04:51 PM |
#141 |
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Yes, and the fact that... |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 05:06 PM |
#144 |
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Our presence is a huge part of the problem. WE are the enemy. WE are |
leesa |
Jan-14-07 11:21 AM |
#101 |
| -
FYI: |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 12:04 PM |
#105 |
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We owe Iraq, but we have to get out and turn it over to another peacekeeper |
cmd |
Jan-14-07 12:07 PM |
#106 |
| -
Who is crazy enough... |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 01:22 PM |
#114 |
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We can not stay there |
cmd |
Jan-14-07 01:57 PM |
#119 |
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They won't stand up and do it. |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 02:12 PM |
#127 |
| -
Please reconcile your statements....... |
charles t |
Jan-14-07 01:47 PM |
#117 |
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No, you aren't out of line |
cmd |
Jan-14-07 01:59 PM |
#121 |
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Let me ask you something |
iwillalwayswonderwhy |
Jan-14-07 02:05 PM |
#123 |
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Are you talking to me? |
cmd |
Jan-14-07 02:36 PM |
#128 |
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Yes, and here is the rub. |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 03:51 PM |
#133 |
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I though you said Kerry's plan is the same as Bush's. So you're proposing stay the course? |
ProSense |
Jan-14-07 04:06 PM |
#135 |
| -
Yes, this looks like "stay the course" decked out in concern. |
dailykoff |
Jan-14-07 05:40 PM |
#147 |
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Since you now CONCEDE that your plan is "evil" & not "moral", why did you frame it as "our MORAL... |
charles t |
Jan-14-07 05:26 PM |
#146 |
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Simple. Give an alternative that is better. |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 05:53 PM |
#149 |
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"I am fully aware of what the Iraqi people want...but what they want is inconsequential" |
ProSense |
Jan-14-07 05:58 PM |
#152 |
| -
That really boggles the mind. (n/t) |
dailykoff |
Jan-14-07 06:08 PM |
#154 |
| -
As if "genuine democracy" has EVER been a US concern, |
dailykoff |
Jan-14-07 06:03 PM |
#153 |
| -
Your 3 points bear little resemblance to your original "moral responsibility" to not "abandon" Iraq |
charles t |
Jan-14-07 06:54 PM |
#159 |
| -
Your suggestion is offensive. |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 07:22 PM |
#160 |
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Perhaps some may find your statement that "what they want is inconsequential..." offensive.... |
charles t |
Jan-15-07 01:31 AM |
#164 |
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White Man's Burden? |
Jacobin |
Jan-14-07 05:42 PM |
#148 |
| -
I guess the fact that... |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 05:56 PM |
#151 |
| -
hmm |
Jacobin |
Jan-14-07 08:04 PM |
#161 |
| -
How is it any different than... |
Meldread |
Jan-14-07 08:34 PM |
#162 |
| -
Problem is those death squads are American. |
dailykoff |
Jan-14-07 11:13 PM |
#163 |
| -
"the height of arrogance" |
lwfern |
Jan-14-07 06:29 PM |
#157 |
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