You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Reply #65: False choice. nt [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #63
65. False choice. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
  -The morality of abandoning Iraq: Why we should stay. Meldread  Jan-13-07 05:45 PM   #0 
  - Here is my take  uppityperson   Jan-13-07 05:51 PM   #1 
  - I agree.  Meldread   Jan-13-07 06:00 PM   #8 
  - no flame - I simply do not believe our staying in Iraq is helpful at this point.  peacebird   Jan-13-07 05:53 PM   #2 
  - The problems with that.  Meldread   Jan-13-07 06:06 PM   #10 
     - What evidence do you have that "We are the lesser of all the evils...?"  John Q. Citizen   Jan-13-07 07:02 PM   #15 
        - Simple.  Meldread   Jan-13-07 07:25 PM   #17 
           - Iran would like nothing better than normalized relations with the West. It's  John Q. Citizen   Jan-13-07 07:58 PM   #23 
              - I agree with one point:  Meldread   Jan-13-07 08:41 PM   #28 
                 - Iran is still developing. They will get the fine points tuned on how to maintain  John Q. Citizen   Jan-14-07 03:49 PM   #132 
  - So you would have the fools that did this continue to torment  TexasProgresive   Jan-13-07 05:54 PM   #3 
  - That is why we have a Democratic Congress.  Meldread   Jan-13-07 06:09 PM   #12 
     - Without a 2/3 majority to override the "Decider's" veto  TexasProgresive   Jan-13-07 07:13 PM   #16 
        - Yes, I am well aware.  Meldread   Jan-13-07 07:35 PM   #19 
  - "The vast majority of people here want to leave Iraq and never  panader0   Jan-13-07 05:55 PM   #4 
  - That is what I am proposing.  Meldread   Jan-13-07 06:16 PM   #13 
  - our presence there is a crime against humanity- the first step...  mike_c   Jan-13-07 05:56 PM   #5 
  - Well I am an American and I didn't support  doc03   Jan-13-07 05:57 PM   #6 
  - Bases. As what? Oases? Refuges for the "moderates"?  aquart   Jan-13-07 05:58 PM   #7 
  - I for One Agree with You  ribofunk   Jan-13-07 06:06 PM   #9 
  - Yes, I think a lot of people can't picture Iraq getting worse, but it can - far worse.  Meldread   Jan-13-07 06:36 PM   #14 
     - I Beleive the Wrong Question is Often Ask  ribofunk   Jan-13-07 11:32 PM   #58 
  - horrendous story, but you shouldn't let ur emotions  NYCALIZ   Jan-13-07 06:09 PM   #11 
  - You cannot..  sendero   Jan-13-07 07:32 PM   #18 
  - You are over looking a simple fact.  Meldread   Jan-13-07 07:42 PM   # 
     - The whole point is..  sendero   Jan-13-07 07:44 PM   #21 
        - That is where I disagree.  Meldread   Jan-13-07 08:51 PM   #30 
           - So...  sendero   Jan-14-07 09:06 AM   #87 
              - First...  Meldread   Jan-14-07 09:49 AM   #92 
                 - Radical elements?  sendero   Jan-14-07 11:45 AM   #103 
                    - So you are willing...  Meldread   Jan-14-07 12:51 PM   #110 
  - First, a question: Who is talking about abandoning Iraq?  ProSense   Jan-13-07 07:42 PM   #20 
  - I read them, here is my responce.  Meldread   Jan-13-07 08:13 PM   #25 
     - Staying in Iraq will  ProSense   Jan-13-07 08:30 PM   #27 
        - Yes, I agree and that is exactly what I am suggesting.  Meldread   Jan-13-07 08:49 PM   #29 
           - I said nothing about remaining in Iraq.  ProSense   Jan-13-07 09:07 PM   #32 
              - What possible political and diplomatic solutions can be made?  Meldread   Jan-13-07 09:13 PM   #34 
                 - Whatever that solution is, it should be  ProSense   Jan-13-07 09:43 PM   #35 
                    - You see, that is the problem.  Meldread   Jan-13-07 09:57 PM   #38 
                       - We can leave  ProSense   Jan-13-07 10:10 PM   #41 
                          - Let me rephrase it, then.  Meldread   Jan-13-07 10:45 PM   #48 
                             - What will happen if the situation  ProSense   Jan-13-07 10:49 PM   #49 
  - A question for you...if Little Boots attacks Iran will our military in effect.  madfloridian   Jan-13-07 07:50 PM   #22 
  - Yes, it is true.  Meldread   Jan-13-07 08:58 PM   #31 
  - Under the helm of Junior and his cast of felonious assclowns,  AtomicKitten   Jan-13-07 08:00 PM   #24 
  - Correct me if I'm wrong, but the basic premis of your argument  tnlefty   Jan-13-07 08:30 PM   #26 
  - I agree.  Meldread   Jan-13-07 09:09 PM   #33 
  - It;s a civil war. If your kid wants to go, send him, or go yourself!  EndElectoral   Jan-13-07 09:47 PM   #36 
  - No  mmonk   Jan-13-07 09:54 PM   #37 
  - Dimwit Bush should have listened to McCain calling for  fuzzyball   Jan-13-07 10:02 PM   #39 
  - Yes, we've lost Iraq  Meldread   Jan-13-07 10:08 PM   #40 
     - Not until we give our military atleast 6 months to turn things around  fuzzyball   Jan-13-07 10:14 PM   #42 
        - That is one of the problems.  Meldread   Jan-13-07 10:30 PM   #45 
           - Russia, China and India are doing just too well economically to get  fuzzyball   Jan-13-07 10:59 PM   #50 
              - But what is the response from Saudi Arabia?  Meldread   Jan-13-07 11:09 PM   #53 
                 - Only response Saudi's can deliver is money help to the sunni's  fuzzyball   Jan-14-07 02:11 PM   #126 
  - Tough OP to respond to. You're right leaving isn't an option. It's an inevitability.  Bucky   Jan-13-07 10:23 PM   #43 
  - Oh, I agree it's already happened.  Meldread   Jan-13-07 10:38 PM   #46 
  - Oop - a dupe  Bucky   Jan-13-07 10:23 PM   #44 
  - totally disagree - no flames though  welshTerrier2   Jan-13-07 10:42 PM   #47 
  - Thanks for your reply!  Meldread   Jan-13-07 11:00 PM   #51 
     - "placing my faith in our Democratic Congress"  welshTerrier2   Jan-13-07 11:11 PM   #54 
        - As a general rule: You should never trust anyone in government.  Meldread   Jan-13-07 11:24 PM   #56 
  - You are advocating that the rape victim spend more time with her rapist  IndianaGreen   Jan-13-07 11:08 PM   #52 
  - That is idealistic, if flawed.  Meldread   Jan-13-07 11:20 PM   #55 
  - Have you heard of the expression "white man's burden?"  IndianaGreen   Jan-14-07 12:03 AM   #62 
     - That is crazy.  Meldread   Jan-14-07 12:59 AM   #69 
        - How many names do we want to see in a future Iraq War Memorial?  IndianaGreen   Jan-14-07 01:29 AM   #71 
           - What I propose - less will die, both less Iraqi's and Americans.  Meldread   Jan-14-07 01:48 AM   #74 
  - The immediate no-holes barred withdraw of all troops from Iraq  Clarkie1   Jan-14-07 12:00 AM   #61 
     - Would you rather withdraw now, or would you rather shoot your way out later?  IndianaGreen   Jan-14-07 12:06 AM   #63 
        - False choice. nt  Clarkie1   Jan-14-07 12:28 AM   #65 
  - I agree with you that we cannot simply withdraw 140,000 troops immediately  Clarkie1   Jan-13-07 11:28 PM   #57 
  - What the Democrats in Congress NEED to do...  Meldread   Jan-13-07 11:37 PM   #59 
     - Problem is, Bush refuses to deal with Iraq's neighbors. nt  Clarkie1   Jan-13-07 11:57 PM   #60 
  - Yes we owe them reparations. No we should not stay.  dailykoff   Jan-14-07 12:15 AM   #64 
  - Thanks Meldread for this serious thought provoking thread.  Auntie Bush   Jan-14-07 12:40 AM   #66 
  - Thanks.  Meldread   Jan-14-07 01:33 AM   #73 
  - Immoral to go or stay. Bad for America to go or stay.  gulliver   Jan-14-07 12:41 AM   #67 
  - WTF?!?!? AIR STRIKES!?!?! You're kidding, right?  eridani   Jan-14-07 12:55 AM   #68 
  - Not indiscriminate.  Meldread   Jan-14-07 01:24 AM   #70 
  - You have just described what we already did to Fallujah  eridani   Jan-14-07 05:35 AM   #77 
  - I agree with you on the airstrikes, but we're talking about more than dishes.  Clarkie1   Jan-14-07 02:05 AM   #75 
     - Really? Why does the fact that our destruction has been more intense--  eridani   Jan-14-07 05:38 AM   #78 
        - O.K., I'll meet you half-way.  Clarkie1   Jan-14-07 06:28 PM   #156 
           - We are utterly unable to fix the social problems we have unleashed as well  eridani   Jan-15-07 03:01 AM   #165 
  - I think the only thing American that should stay there  tavalon   Jan-14-07 01:30 AM   #72 
  - Phased redeployment combinded with renewed legitimate political/diplomatic efforts.  ellisonz   Jan-14-07 02:26 AM   #76 
  - Un-fucking-believable  MadHound   Jan-14-07 06:56 AM   #79 
  - Word.  iwillalwayswonderwhy   Jan-14-07 08:07 AM   #81 
  - Okay, there is a bit of arrogance here  iwillalwayswonderwhy   Jan-14-07 07:53 AM   #80 
  - Yes, you're correct.  Meldread   Jan-14-07 09:15 AM   #88 
     - I don't think there is anything moral  iwillalwayswonderwhy   Jan-14-07 10:20 AM   #95 
        - So what are you suggesting as an alternative?  Meldread   Jan-14-07 10:34 AM   #96 
           - You don't understand  iwillalwayswonderwhy   Jan-14-07 01:46 PM   #116 
              - I am aware.  Meldread   Jan-14-07 01:58 PM   #120 
  - I must disagree with your premise that the American people supported this war.  BleedingHeartPatriot   Jan-14-07 08:20 AM   #82 
  - A .... "KINDER ...... GENTLER" ..... (arrogant) ....EMPIRE ???  charles t   Jan-14-07 08:29 AM   #83 
  - I'm not pretending...  Meldread   Jan-14-07 09:25 AM   #89 
  - Every day of our unjust occupation of Iraq is a thousand atrocities.  personman   Jan-14-07 08:38 AM   #84 
  - The assumption is:  kentuck   Jan-14-07 08:47 AM   #85 
  - Indeed, that's what got us into this war in the first place  iwillalwayswonderwhy   Jan-14-07 08:57 AM   #86 
  - Yet we know that...  Meldread   Jan-14-07 09:28 AM   #90 
     - No, we don't "know" that...  kentuck   Jan-14-07 09:43 AM   #91 
        - What do you think will happen, then?  Meldread   Jan-14-07 09:57 AM   #93 
           - It doesn't matter  iwillalwayswonderwhy   Jan-14-07 10:17 AM   #94 
           - I'm sorry I disagree...  Meldread   Jan-14-07 10:38 AM   #97 
              - The immorality of staying in Iraq: Why the U.S. should withdraw.  ProSense   Jan-14-07 10:45 AM   #98 
              - Then how do we do that?  Meldread   Jan-14-07 11:00 AM   #99 
                 - Here is the  ProSense   Jan-14-07 11:07 AM   #100 
                    - Problems with that, point by point:  Meldread   Jan-14-07 11:40 AM   #102 
                       - The plan is clear, it's not what you want it to be, it is what it is.  ProSense   Jan-14-07 11:58 AM   #104 
                          - You missed the points, in the end his proposal doesn't really differ from what Bush is doing.  Meldread   Jan-14-07 12:19 PM   #108 
                             - That's completely ridiculous.  ProSense   Jan-14-07 12:46 PM   #109 
                                - Do you even understand what he is proposing?  Meldread   Jan-14-07 12:59 PM   #111 
                                   - You asked if there is something you misunderstand, so let me explain:  ProSense   Jan-14-07 01:22 PM   #113 
                                      - ...and how is anything that I stated incorrect?  Meldread   Jan-14-07 01:29 PM   #115 
                                         - OK!  ProSense   Jan-14-07 02:11 PM   #125 
                                            - Here I'll prove you wrong:  Meldread   Jan-14-07 03:11 PM   #130 
                                               - "In reality, what I suggested is not radically different." No, it is.  ProSense   Jan-14-07 03:58 PM   #134 
                                               - So, what? He says...  Meldread   Jan-14-07 04:19 PM   #138 
                                               - What exactly does this mean?  ProSense   Jan-14-07 04:30 PM   #139 
                                               - No, no and no.  Meldread   Jan-14-07 04:56 PM   #142 
                                               - Here,  ProSense   Jan-14-07 05:04 PM   #143 
                                               - That's funny.  Meldread   Jan-14-07 05:24 PM   #145 
                                               - You know, I am  ProSense   Jan-14-07 05:56 PM   #150 
                                               - Here are the actual orders for re-deployment laid out.  Meldread   Jan-14-07 06:16 PM   #155 
                                               - That plan is  ProSense   Jan-14-07 06:39 PM   #158 
              - and what if we leave?  iwillalwayswonderwhy   Jan-14-07 01:50 PM   #118 
                 - And what if they do?  Meldread   Jan-14-07 02:04 PM   #122 
           - You are overlooking one salient fact.  charlyvi   Jan-14-07 12:10 PM   #107 
              - You are right, really, we don't have any moral ground to stand on.  Meldread   Jan-14-07 01:18 PM   #112 
                 - Ah yes, the oil. So now we get down to the crux of the matter.  charlyvi   Jan-14-07 02:10 PM   #124 
                    - Lots of questions, I'll try and answer.  Meldread   Jan-14-07 03:00 PM   #129 
                       - Thank you for your patient answers.  charlyvi   Jan-14-07 03:33 PM   #131 
                          - Thanks.  Meldread   Jan-14-07 04:11 PM   #136 
                             - I agree with you on Powell.  charlyvi   Jan-14-07 04:19 PM   #137 
                                - Yes, and that is why...  Meldread   Jan-14-07 04:39 PM   #140 
                                   - That's a very good point Meldread.  charlyvi   Jan-14-07 04:51 PM   #141 
                                      - Yes, and the fact that...  Meldread   Jan-14-07 05:06 PM   #144 
  - Our presence is a huge part of the problem. WE are the enemy. WE are  leesa   Jan-14-07 11:21 AM   #101 
  - FYI:  Meldread   Jan-14-07 12:04 PM   #105 
  - We owe Iraq, but we have to get out and turn it over to another peacekeeper  cmd   Jan-14-07 12:07 PM   #106 
  - Who is crazy enough...  Meldread   Jan-14-07 01:22 PM   #114 
     - We can not stay there  cmd   Jan-14-07 01:57 PM   #119 
        - They won't stand up and do it.  Meldread   Jan-14-07 02:12 PM   #127 
  - Please reconcile your statements.......  charles t   Jan-14-07 01:47 PM   #117 
  - No, you aren't out of line  cmd   Jan-14-07 01:59 PM   #121 
  - Let me ask you something  iwillalwayswonderwhy   Jan-14-07 02:05 PM   #123 
     - Are you talking to me?  cmd   Jan-14-07 02:36 PM   #128 
  - Yes, and here is the rub.  Meldread   Jan-14-07 03:51 PM   #133 
     - I though you said Kerry's plan is the same as Bush's. So you're proposing stay the course?  ProSense   Jan-14-07 04:06 PM   #135 
     - Yes, this looks like "stay the course" decked out in concern.  dailykoff   Jan-14-07 05:40 PM   #147 
     - Since you now CONCEDE that your plan is "evil" & not "moral", why did you frame it as "our MORAL...  charles t   Jan-14-07 05:26 PM   #146 
        - Simple. Give an alternative that is better.  Meldread   Jan-14-07 05:53 PM   #149 
           - "I am fully aware of what the Iraqi people want...but what they want is inconsequential"  ProSense   Jan-14-07 05:58 PM   #152 
           - That really boggles the mind. (n/t)  dailykoff   Jan-14-07 06:08 PM   #154 
           - As if "genuine democracy" has EVER been a US concern,  dailykoff   Jan-14-07 06:03 PM   #153 
           - Your 3 points bear little resemblance to your original "moral responsibility" to not "abandon" Iraq  charles t   Jan-14-07 06:54 PM   #159 
              - Your suggestion is offensive.  Meldread   Jan-14-07 07:22 PM   #160 
                 - Perhaps some may find your statement that "what they want is inconsequential..." offensive....  charles t   Jan-15-07 01:31 AM   #164 
  - White Man's Burden?  Jacobin   Jan-14-07 05:42 PM   #148 
  - I guess the fact that...  Meldread   Jan-14-07 05:56 PM   #151 
     - hmm  Jacobin   Jan-14-07 08:04 PM   #161 
        - How is it any different than...  Meldread   Jan-14-07 08:34 PM   #162 
           - Problem is those death squads are American.  dailykoff   Jan-14-07 11:13 PM   #163 
  - "the height of arrogance"  lwfern   Jan-14-07 06:29 PM   #157 
 

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC