welshTerrier2
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Thu Dec-21-06 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #38 |
| 45. that's really what this is all about, isn't it? politics ... |
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Edited on Thu Dec-21-06 12:30 AM by welshTerrier2
there's no question if the Dems play anti-war hardball the "i told you they were going to make America surrender" won't be far behind ... but, i think we should not let political fear dictate what we believe in ... this isn't 9/11/2001 anymore ... the nation is not shocked the way we were back then ... the spin is getting old, very old ... the last election told the story ...
we need to stop being so fearful of the political consequences ... the American people will be with us if we argue that Iraq has become hopeless ... most Americans know that's the reality ... calling for a "fast as troop safety allows" withdrawal is LEADERSHIP ... it's proactive rather than a cowering reactive response ... Americans keep looking to Democrats to stand up and show some integrity; instead we get all this mealy-mouthed equivocation about trying something new or hearing out the president or giving diplomacy a chance ... the bottom line is our troops are dying, the Iraqi people in overwhelming numbers want us to leave immediately, the Iraqi government is corrupt and inept, it really is all about oil and guaranteeing a presence for the big oil boys ... it's lost ... it's crap ... and i believe the American people will reward us for finally telling them the truth they already believe ...
getting out is good policy; so is leading the country in the right direction and being honest with the voters ... it's time to start saying what we think instead of letting the marketing department chart the course ...
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| -Kerry does not rule out troop surge, but demands real diplomacy. |
Clarkie1 |
Dec-20-06 11:24 PM |
#0 |
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I'm just not sure troops are the solution |
hijinx87 |
Dec-20-06 11:29 PM |
#1 |
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Troops are not the solution. At best the can help fill a security vacuum temporarily. |
Clarkie1 |
Dec-20-06 11:33 PM |
#2 |
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if it is indeed a civil war |
hijinx87 |
Dec-20-06 11:35 PM |
#3 |
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It's not an all-out civil war yet. |
Clarkie1 |
Dec-20-06 11:37 PM |
#5 |
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oh, sure it is |
hijinx87 |
Dec-20-06 11:42 PM |
#7 |
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Kerry disagrees, but whether it meets the definition or not really isn't the issue. |
Clarkie1 |
Dec-20-06 11:44 PM |
#11 |
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well, maybe kerry is just wrong. |
hijinx87 |
Dec-20-06 11:49 PM |
#15 |
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Kerry seems to believe a poltical solution is still possible without full-scale civil war. |
Clarkie1 |
Dec-20-06 11:59 PM |
#22 |
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obviously. |
hijinx87 |
Dec-21-06 12:01 AM |
#26 |
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No he doesn't! |
ProSense |
Dec-21-06 10:09 AM |
#71 |
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IMO troops needs to redeploy the hell out of Iraq a la Murtha's plan. |
AtomicKitten |
Dec-20-06 11:35 PM |
#4 |
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Without going into the merits, Murtha's plan simply isn't going to happen. |
Clarkie1 |
Dec-20-06 11:40 PM |
#6 |
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I believe what you say is the truth. |
AtomicKitten |
Dec-20-06 11:43 PM |
#8 |
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that's the best idea I have heard in weeks. |
hijinx87 |
Dec-20-06 11:46 PM |
#12 |
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*** |
AtomicKitten |
Dec-20-06 11:51 PM |
#17 |
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LOL! |
hijinx87 |
Dec-20-06 11:59 PM |
#23 |
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that is the horrifying fact of the matter |
hijinx87 |
Dec-20-06 11:44 PM |
#10 |
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Do you have a dead limit on that "affect?" n/t |
countmyvote4real |
Dec-20-06 11:46 PM |
#13 |
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You know I wasn't in favor of cutting the funding at first |
Hippo_Tron |
Dec-21-06 02:48 PM |
#83 |
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"We should not oppose a troop surge outright from the beginning" |
welshTerrier2 |
Dec-20-06 11:44 PM |
#9 |
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some people here are arguing the semantics of |
AtomicKitten |
Dec-20-06 11:48 PM |
#14 |
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more troops can't be the solution, because lack of troops isn't the problem. n/t |
hijinx87 |
Dec-20-06 11:52 PM |
#18 |
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yahtzee |
AtomicKitten |
Dec-20-06 11:54 PM |
#19 |
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Agreed, lack of troops might've been a problem 3 years ago |
Hippo_Tron |
Dec-21-06 02:50 PM |
#84 |
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two different issues? |
welshTerrier2 |
Dec-20-06 11:58 PM |
#21 |
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Just saying "we lost the war" |
Clarkie1 |
Dec-21-06 12:04 AM |
#27 |
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The Dems will LOSE in 2008 if they let this war continue. |
AtomicKitten |
Dec-21-06 12:05 AM |
#28 |
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No matter what we do now, Junior isn't leaving Iraq anytime soon. |
Clarkie1 |
Dec-21-06 12:08 AM |
#31 |
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cut off the funding!!!! |
AtomicKitten |
Dec-21-06 12:09 AM |
#33 |
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Then the region falls into bloody chaos, and around comes November 08'.... |
Clarkie1 |
Dec-21-06 12:16 AM |
#37 |
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too late -- it's already in bloody chaos |
AtomicKitten |
Dec-21-06 12:20 AM |
#39 |
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But that's not our call anyway. |
Clarkie1 |
Dec-21-06 12:21 AM |
#40 |
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the congressional dems can force his hand, though |
hijinx87 |
Dec-21-06 12:24 AM |
#42 |
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And we enable the "Democrats lost the war" accusation. nt |
Clarkie1 |
Dec-21-06 12:26 AM |
#43 |
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as has been pointed out repeatedly in this thread . . . |
hijinx87 |
Dec-21-06 09:13 AM |
#66 |
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Fine, I'll take an election loss in '08 in exchange for getting out of Iraq |
Hippo_Tron |
Dec-21-06 02:57 PM |
#86 |
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I'm pontificating from my desk! |
AtomicKitten |
Dec-21-06 12:28 AM |
#44 |
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I"m still pissed at Kerry and other about the IWR vote, too. |
Clarkie1 |
Dec-21-06 12:32 AM |
#47 |
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I agree. |
AtomicKitten |
Dec-21-06 12:33 AM |
#48 |
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We did the wrong thing with the IWR, and it hurt us in the long run |
Hippo_Tron |
Dec-21-06 03:04 PM |
#89 |
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It's not our war to "let continue!" nt |
Clarkie1 |
Dec-21-06 12:23 AM |
#41 |
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Dems bought in with their 'yes' votes on the IWR |
AtomicKitten |
Dec-21-06 12:30 AM |
#46 |
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Yes, they did. I wasn't any part of it. nt |
Clarkie1 |
Dec-21-06 12:36 AM |
#50 |
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Kerry didn't say that, but he certainly implied it. |
Clarkie1 |
Dec-20-06 11:50 PM |
#16 |
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If John Kerry came back and uttered these words |
AtomicKitten |
Dec-20-06 11:57 PM |
#20 |
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Even if Gore ran? nt |
Clarkie1 |
Dec-21-06 12:01 AM |
#24 |
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you're killing me, Clarkie1 |
AtomicKitten |
Dec-21-06 12:06 AM |
#29 |
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"we need to listen to what they have to say" |
welshTerrier2 |
Dec-21-06 12:11 AM |
#35 |
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And we leave tomorrow...and what does the Middle East look like in November 08'? |
Clarkie1 |
Dec-21-06 12:20 AM |
#38 |
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that's really what this is all about, isn't it? politics ... |
welshTerrier2 |
Dec-21-06 12:30 AM |
#45 |
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No, it's not all about domestic politics. I have larger concerns than that. |
Clarkie1 |
Dec-21-06 12:35 AM |
#49 |
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negotiations |
welshTerrier2 |
Dec-21-06 12:50 AM |
#52 |
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You are absolutely right that our dependence on foreign oil is what drives all this. |
Clarkie1 |
Dec-21-06 12:55 AM |
#53 |
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I agree with you on this, Clarkie1 |
StoryTeller |
Dec-21-06 09:00 AM |
#65 |
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You’re absolutely right. |
countmyvote4real |
Dec-21-06 12:08 AM |
#30 |
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Amazing to find Colin Powell to the Left of Kerry on the troop surge |
IndianaGreen |
Dec-21-06 12:08 AM |
#32 |
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And then they will say that we are putting partisanship before dialogue. |
Clarkie1 |
Dec-21-06 12:12 AM |
#36 |
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Kerry made clear in BOTH interviews he's AGAINST troop surge - the excerpting implies |
blm |
Dec-21-06 08:13 AM |
#58 |
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has Kerry ruled out a troop surge or ... |
welshTerrier2 |
Dec-21-06 08:20 AM |
#59 |
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He said he's opposed to more troops. Specific transcript excerpts here.... |
blm |
Dec-21-06 08:28 AM |
#61 |
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i just watched the NPR interview |
welshTerrier2 |
Dec-21-06 08:52 AM |
#63 |
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He's just describing what will happen there - he said he's opposed to more troops. |
blm |
Dec-21-06 09:35 AM |
#69 |
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He doesn't say he is for it under ANY circumstances |
karynnj |
Dec-21-06 03:11 PM |
#90 |
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My understanding of that statement |
StoryTeller |
Dec-21-06 08:57 AM |
#64 |
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Seems reasonable enough |
LittleClarkie |
Dec-21-06 12:01 AM |
#25 |
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It's basically Clark's position in so many words as expressed in the NPR interview this week. nt |
Clarkie1 |
Dec-21-06 12:10 AM |
#34 |
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Kerry supporters seem to be mostly avoiding this thread. |
Clarkie1 |
Dec-21-06 12:41 AM |
#51 |
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I'm here! |
StoryTeller |
Dec-21-06 09:17 AM |
#67 |
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I'm here! |
ProSense |
Dec-21-06 10:02 AM |
#70 |
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Thanks for this info, ProSense! |
StoryTeller |
Dec-21-06 10:24 AM |
#72 |
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Are you stating that in Clark stating "what" a surge would do, it equals him |
FrenchieCat |
Dec-21-06 10:53 AM |
#73 |
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I don't think ProSense was stating anything of the sort. |
StoryTeller |
Dec-21-06 11:15 AM |
#74 |
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Well maybe so....but I have followed Prosense's approach over time |
FrenchieCat |
Dec-21-06 11:58 AM |
#77 |
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That's silly! |
ProSense |
Dec-21-06 12:23 PM |
#78 |
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You didn't think it was "silly" when you were making up headlines |
FrenchieCat |
Dec-21-06 02:45 PM |
#80 |
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How many ways can I say it: Clark is wrong about a timetable! n/t |
ProSense |
Dec-21-06 02:47 PM |
#82 |
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For starters, maybe had you not attributed words not used by Clark, that would have been a better |
FrenchieCat |
Dec-21-06 03:03 PM |
#88 |
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Clark: Timetables a bad idea |
ProSense |
Dec-21-06 03:17 PM |
#91 |
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Also, don't |
ProSense |
Dec-21-06 02:51 PM |
#85 |
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You know, this sounds like it's a personal issue |
StoryTeller |
Dec-21-06 01:47 PM |
#79 |
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The problem always comes down to the same thing - Kerry and Clark give FULL ANSWERS and |
blm |
Dec-21-06 11:34 AM |
#75 |
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As for me |
sandnsea |
Dec-21-06 11:46 AM |
#76 |
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It is becoming more and more obvious that Iraq, an artificial creature, is having its bindings |
nealmhughes |
Dec-21-06 01:11 AM |
#54 |
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Thank you for this excellent historical summary. |
StoryTeller |
Dec-21-06 09:29 AM |
#68 |
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Kerry made an important distinction |
rollopollo |
Dec-21-06 01:57 AM |
#55 |
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Kerry is for a timetable for withdrawal of American troops |
beachmom |
Dec-21-06 08:00 AM |
#56 |
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Your headline is misleading, at best. |
TayTay |
Dec-21-06 08:10 AM |
#57 |
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Same train of thought he put forth in his long speech before voting FOR the IWR |
Roland99 |
Dec-21-06 08:25 AM |
#60 |
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I see nothing wrong with Sen. Kerry's approach. |
wisteria |
Dec-21-06 08:34 AM |
#62 |
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Putting in even TEN more won't do shit, Kerry. C'mon, you KNOW BETTER. |
Zhade |
Dec-21-06 02:46 PM |
#81 |
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Kerry is NOT saying a smaller number would work |
karynnj |
Dec-21-06 02:59 PM |
#87 |
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No, the media is, and I fell for it. |
Zhade |
Dec-21-06 04:04 PM |
#92 |
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I'm sorry then - the personal attack was against rules |
karynnj |
Dec-21-06 04:19 PM |
#93 |
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No worries, I understand the frustration. |
Zhade |
Dec-21-06 06:00 PM |
#94 |
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Reality-check kick. nt |
Clarkie1 |
Dec-22-06 02:30 AM |
#95 |
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