thanks for all your help; we'll take it from here???

[welshTerrier2]

they used to tell us we could leave Iraq when a sufficient number of Iraqi troops were adequately trained ...

now, merge that idea with the idea of a fortress ... if we said the Iraqi troops had to be able to guard the whole country, some would quickly point out that some areas are still "a bit troublesome" ... but one would expect a military base turned over to the Iraqis to be secure ... even if they couldn't quell the sectarian violence that is killing scores of Iraqis everyday, at least the great fortresses should be secure ...

well, forget it ... yesterday, the US turned over an entire military base to the Iraqis ... one would hope this was done in recognition that the Iraqi forces taking charge of the base had at least obtained some reasonable level of competence ... one would hope ... as i said, forget it!

the article below describes a pathetic inability to even guard their own military base ... they have no proficiency ... they have no competence ...

if this is the best they have to offer, what exactly are we doing over there? after three and half years of this insanity, what is it we can point to? when can we leave? forget about even answering those questions ... ask yourself this: what does anyone who thinks we shouldn't leave immediately honestly hope to accomplish and what possible basis do they have for believing that it can be accomplished ...

i see no US contribution being made ... i only see the costs ...

and think of this ... some believe we must remain to prevent an all out civil war ... let's not argue here about whether an all out civil war is already in progress ... let's accept, for argument's sake, that US presence is preventing an all out civil war ... the fact is that the current state of affairs is, nevertheless, totally unacceptable ... the death rates of Iraqi civilians is already totally unacceptable ... it seems to me a better approach is to withdraw now with a warning to both sides ... the warning would be that if one side gains control and the killings of innocent civilians continues, the US will view that side as an enemy unlike the neutral position we seem to have today ...

so, if the Shia overrun the Sunnis and mass killings of civilians occur, the US will return to Iraq and crush the Shia ...

to be clear, i am not necessarily advocating that the US should return at all ... what i am saying is that this approach seems to make more sense than the current untenable stalemate ... what the US is doing now cannot be tolerated and it cannot improve ... that is an absolutely unacceptable situation ... so, something has to change ... either we withdraw NOW and let the chips fall where they may OR we withdraw NOW with a threat of returning ... picking either of those seems eminently preferable to the "we can't get there from here" situation we are mired in today ...

comments?

source: http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/15363243.htm

Military base turned over to Iraqi forces is looted the next day

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Hours after the British turned over a military base to Iraqi control, looters picked it clean, driving up in trucks and making off with roofing, windows, and plumbing after clashing with outnumbered Iraqi soldiers.

About 1,200 British forces withdrew on Thursday from Abu Naji, a camp near Amarah in southern Maysan province. The base had been targeted repeatedly with mortar fire, and shortly after the British left, members of the Shiite-controlled Mahdi Army passed out pamphlets claiming credit for the British retreat. The camp had been targeted for mortar and rocket fire almost daily.

Looters arrived at the camp within hours after the final British soldiers left at noon on Thursday. Iraqi soldiers put up resistance and later fired on the crowds who had gathered. There were reports of some injuries for both Iraqi forces and civilians but no fatalities. <skip>

Spokesmen for the Iraqi Defense Ministry and the British military said the departure was part of what was a planned relinquishing of control to local Iraqi forces. <skip>

"All I can say is that the British forces left the place to the Iraqi army according to a deal with the Ministry of Defense," Askari said. "The deal dictated to deliver the camps to the Iraqi forces whenever these forces reach the needed level of readiness and ability to handle the security responsibilities. More locations and camps will be delivered in the coming two months."