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Reply #47: The big question for the Greens [View All]

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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
Jim Lane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #41
47. The big question for the Greens
Welcome to DU, and thanks for maintaining civility while presenting a defense of the Green Party. Perhaps you can tackle the tough question that I've never seen any Green deal with satisfactorily.

You write: All we Greens have ever wanted was a voice in the political process.

You have a voice. It's called "primaries". Reformers struggled for decades to end the party bosses' control over nominations, and to give that power to the people. The Greens act as if that radical change in the political system had never occurred.

Sure, it can be hard to win a primary. But it's inconsistent for Greens to disdain a primary for that reason, and then run a hopeless race in the general election. Usually, if you had the votes to win in the general, you could win the primary. Progressive candidates have won primaries, such as Carol Moseley Braun's victory over incumbent Senator Alan Dixon in 1992. Even when they don't win, they can have their voice and spread their message. The Ned Lamont campaign might unseat Joe Lieberman but, even failing that, will have provided an effective vehicle for anti-war voters.

So, why should progressives support Green Party candidates, when they could devote their time and energy to good candidates in the Democratic primary? A focus on primaries has the advantage of not dividing the progressive vote and possibly handing the election to a conservative. We here in New York elected the repulsive Al D'Amato, who won with a minority of the votes, because of that kind of divisiveness (although the culprit there was our now-blessedly-extinct "Liberal" Party, not the Greens).

In passing, I'll respond to another of your comments: As for this notion Dems have about us being crazy people who would take out anyone just to get their 5%, it's absolute rubbish to put it nicely. I'd gladly vote for any Democrat that would make this country better.... I disagree with things the Democrats do, but I also cheer them when they have shown themselves to be the opposition party they claim to be.

The Green Party ran a candidate against Paul Wellstone. It's that kind of lunacy that gives a lot of credence to the charge that you deride as "rubbish".
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  -It's official (TPM) GOP aided Green Party in PA. . . DinahMoeHum  Aug-02-06 04:53 PM   #0 
  - Slimy.  HypnoToad   Aug-02-06 04:54 PM   #1 
  - I think this is pretty low even for politics.  redqueen   Aug-02-06 04:58 PM   #3 
  - This is why Richard Reardon did not become CA governor  erknm   Aug-02-06 11:15 PM   #36 
  - Green Party no problem  liberalmike27   Aug-03-06 08:25 AM   #58 
  - Why does Santorum and the Pubs think it's good for them to have  napi21   Aug-02-06 04:57 PM   #2 
  - the green party siphons progressive votes away from the dem candidate. n/t  redqueen   Aug-02-06 04:58 PM   #4 
  - Okayyy, but if the GP candidate only got his own $30 as a  napi21   Aug-02-06 05:04 PM   #7 
     - No, it only means they're not donating to his campaign.  redqueen   Aug-02-06 05:16 PM   #9 
        - Kinky is a whole different story! So is Tx!  napi21   Aug-02-06 05:26 PM   #11 
           - Perhaps...  redqueen   Aug-02-06 05:48 PM   #13 
  - Because Casey is controversial in some demcratic issues  LynneSin   Aug-02-06 06:24 PM   #18 
  - ARE YOU REALLY ASKING THIS, OH THE HUMANITY!  LoZoccolo   Aug-02-06 06:54 PM   #23 
  - Scumbags!  Hardrada   Aug-02-06 05:00 PM   #5 
  - Not surprising, but did the Greens know it was dirty money?  Warpy   Aug-02-06 05:00 PM   #6 
  - When people give you thousands of dollars  Bretttido   Aug-02-06 06:02 PM   #14 
  - You'd think so  Warpy   Aug-02-06 07:17 PM   #26 
  - Some official of the Green Party was on NPR praising Santorum  MH1   Aug-03-06 06:45 AM   #52 
  - agreed  Mike Niendorff   Aug-02-06 07:46 PM   #27 
  - Didn't Nader  disndat   Aug-03-06 12:36 PM   #75 
     - Yup, Howard Dean blasted him on it in thier debate.  bklyncowgirl   Aug-03-06 03:23 PM   #88 
  - I'll blame the Greens, because they don't care at all whether the  pnwmom   Aug-02-06 06:34 PM   #19 
  - Blame whoever you want....  purduejake   Aug-02-06 10:20 PM   #34 
     - I agree with you about Kerry. But that won't keep me from supporting  pnwmom   Aug-03-06 12:00 AM   #38 
     - LOL!  MrBenchley   Aug-03-06 12:08 AM   #39 
     - You are simply wrong.  Buzz Clik   Aug-03-06 10:57 AM   #62 
        - I'm right on the money about these Green Party fuckwits  MrBenchley   Aug-03-06 05:09 PM   #108 
     - Exactly......nt  pokercat999   Aug-03-06 04:58 AM   #45 
     - The Greens represent only a tiny fraction of the electorate  creeksneakers2   Aug-03-06 10:36 AM   #60 
     - I know people who vote for Greens and other "off-party" candidates  amybhole   Aug-03-06 06:20 PM   #111 
  - They hired FSM to gather the signatures  LynneSin   Aug-02-06 06:39 PM   #20 
  - Why do you assume that women don't trust Casey?  LynneSin   Aug-02-06 11:34 PM   #37 
     - Yep, that assumption is pretty insulting to those women, isn't it?  MH1   Aug-03-06 06:48 AM   #53 
  - Santorum and his supporters are only doing this  ikojo   Aug-02-06 05:15 PM   #8 
  - What split? The Greens will attract 0.01% of the vote.  Buzz Clik   Aug-03-06 08:08 AM   #56 
     - Seriously - do you have a fricking clue?  LynneSin   Aug-03-06 11:43 AM   #68 
     - Gore did not RESOUNDINGLY beat Bush  ikojo   Aug-03-06 08:16 PM   #112 
  - Hilarious!!! I hope it gets WIDE coverage...  TygrBright   Aug-02-06 05:22 PM   #10 
  - I should not be laughing about this  MATTMAN   Aug-02-06 05:26 PM   #12 
  - I observed this a lot at the local level here in Michigan in 2004  nam78_two   Aug-02-06 06:03 PM   #15 
  - HOLY BAT CRAP NO WAY  LynneSin   Aug-02-06 06:09 PM   #16 
  - "justificed"?? lol  Lerkfish   Aug-03-06 07:59 AM   #54 
  - Oh this tactic is old, check out this link from Seattle.....  WestSeattle2   Aug-02-06 06:10 PM   #17 
  - Isn't that true, They are liars and cheats & proud of it  mirandapriestly   Aug-02-06 07:55 PM   #28 
  - I wonder how many contribute to the D.U.?  ConservativeDemocrat   Aug-02-06 06:42 PM   #21 
  - I wonder how many Compassionate Conservatives...  bvar22   Aug-02-06 08:06 PM   #29 
  - And if that's what we campaigned on, we'd win...  ConservativeDemocrat   Aug-02-06 09:08 PM   #31 
  - You will notice  MrBenchley   Aug-03-06 06:24 AM   #50 
  - RW propagandists now encourage their followers to read  creeksneakers2   Aug-03-06 10:51 AM   #61 
     - The Dems do that to themselves.  Buzz Clik   Aug-03-06 11:00 AM   #63 
  - Those are all mainstream Democratic positions  creeksneakers2   Aug-03-06 05:22 PM   #109 
  - Frustrated Communists?  Demeter   Aug-02-06 09:50 PM   #33 
  - The word "corporatist" bandied about here...  ConservativeDemocrat   Aug-03-06 11:45 AM   #69 
  - That IS a good question, isn't it?  MrBenchley   Aug-03-06 12:10 AM   #40 
  - You aren't a Communist  liberalmike27   Aug-03-06 08:53 AM   #59 
  - Direct anger at PNAC, not Leftists please  Maedhros   Aug-03-06 11:52 AM   #70 
  - GIVE BACK THE FUNDS OR WE WILL DESTROY YOU, GREEN PARTY!  LoZoccolo   Aug-02-06 06:52 PM   #22 
  - If third party candidates accept dirty money  Nestor Mahkno   Aug-02-06 07:01 PM   #24 
  - This is antithetical to progressive values.  94114_San_Francisco   Aug-02-06 07:10 PM   #25 
  - The REALLY cool thing to do...  bvar22   Aug-02-06 08:09 PM   #30 
     - Now that I could get behind :)/nt  nam78_two   Aug-03-06 02:13 PM   #77 
  - The Greens worked specifically to make Gore lose in Florida in 2000.  onehandle   Aug-02-06 09:43 PM   #32 
  - It makes you wonder how many Greens are really Greens  elocs   Aug-02-06 11:13 PM   #35 
     - A Green defending why the hell I am a Green  The Wolf   Aug-03-06 01:11 AM   #41 
     - The big question for the Greens  Jim Lane   Aug-03-06 05:49 AM   #47 
     - Re: The big question for the Greens  The Wolf   Aug-03-06 02:26 PM   #80 
        - Just to clarify my position....  Jim Lane   Aug-04-06 01:41 AM   #113 
           - Answers, or rough attempts at them  The Wolf   Aug-04-06 02:58 PM   #117 
     - "All we Greens have ever wanted was a voice in the political process."  Vickers   Aug-03-06 06:27 AM   #51 
     - The GOP sent operatives into Green and Democratic forums in 2000.  onehandle   Aug-03-06 05:52 AM   #48 
  - More info here  peace frog   Aug-03-06 01:34 AM   #42 
  - This is the story that needs to be sent to Keith Olbermann ASAP.  Hubert Flottz   Aug-03-06 04:43 AM   #43 
  - Hmmmmm....could it be that this is actually a good thing?  pokercat999   Aug-03-06 04:52 AM   #44 
  - yeah, like the GOP will allow that  mac56   Aug-03-06 06:16 AM   #49 
  - I won't count on somebody who runs as a Green but is  creeksneakers2   Aug-03-06 04:58 PM   #107 
  - erm, i don't get it  HuffleClaw   Aug-03-06 05:07 AM   #46 
  - The point is the noisy ones at DU want everyone marching in lockstep.  Buzz Clik   Aug-03-06 08:10 AM   #57 
     - Obviously the Green Party is in lockstep with the Republicans  LynneSin   Aug-03-06 11:37 AM   #67 
        - Step back and examine that statement. It makes no sense.  Buzz Clik   Aug-03-06 12:11 PM   #71 
           - After reading your posts I'm not to worried about it not  LynneSin   Aug-03-06 12:15 PM   #73 
              - Perfect. Now it's time for the insults.  Buzz Clik   Aug-03-06 02:22 PM   #78 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Aug-03-06 08:06 AM   #55 
  - So how long have you been a Rick Santorum fan?  LynneSin   Aug-03-06 11:36 AM   #66 
     - So, I'm supposed to be impressed that the Dems are as bad as the GOP?  Buzz Clik   Aug-03-06 12:14 PM   #72 
        - Turns out the Greens not only are as Bad but SUPPORTED by them  LynneSin   Aug-03-06 12:16 PM   #74 
           - More logical disconnects.  Buzz Clik   Aug-03-06 02:25 PM   #79 
           - yeah- but the Dixie Chicks dont change money with Saddam or the GOP  Dr Fate   Aug-03-06 02:29 PM   #81 
           - It's not the analogy, it's the fascist attitude.  Buzz Clik   Aug-03-06 02:34 PM   #83 
              - Democrats losing support of Greens? When did we ever have it?  Dr Fate   Aug-03-06 02:39 PM   #84 
                 - I have not ever voted Green, but...  Buzz Clik   Aug-03-06 03:23 PM   #89 
                    - I do blame Santorum AS WELL as his new allies- the Greens.  Dr Fate   Aug-03-06 03:45 PM   #91 
           - Well Greens do it to us  LynneSin   Aug-03-06 03:46 PM   #92 
           - Isn't that like asking  kenfrequed   Aug-04-06 11:12 AM   #114 
  - And we could do the same but we won't  nadinbrzezinski   Aug-03-06 11:06 AM   #64 
  - HAHAHAHA! Read this new story from TPM!!!  LynneSin   Aug-03-06 11:34 AM   #65 
  - Not as much as the Democrats aided Bush.  Voltaire99   Aug-03-06 01:29 PM   #76 
  - You nailed it!  Buzz Clik   Aug-03-06 02:30 PM   #82 
  - But none of that would have gone down if Gore had won FLA in 2000.  Dr Fate   Aug-03-06 02:44 PM   #85 
     - Gore DID win in Fla  ProudDad   Aug-03-06 03:08 PM   #86 
        - Stop the bashing? Like saying "Gore & Bush are the same thing?"  Dr Fate   Aug-03-06 03:42 PM   #90 
           - There's a significant difference  ProudDad   Aug-03-06 03:52 PM   #95 
              - Bull Crap. Greens lied through their teeth about our good Democrats.  Dr Fate   Aug-03-06 03:58 PM   #96 
                 - What lies?  ProudDad   Aug-03-06 04:16 PM   #101 
                    - Nader and the Greens on TV said it. Every day. I dont know who you are.  Dr Fate   Aug-03-06 04:25 PM   #103 
  - Some Points  ProudDad   Aug-03-06 03:19 PM   #87 
  - I'll agree that we need publically financed elections however  LynneSin   Aug-03-06 03:49 PM   #93 
  - What "wrong doing"?  ProudDad   Aug-03-06 04:07 PM   #99 
     - But this is not the 1st time Greens were caught taking GOP $$$$$$$$$$$  Dr Fate   Aug-03-06 04:12 PM   #100 
     - Ah  ProudDad   Aug-03-06 04:17 PM   #102 
        - Guilt by constantly taking GOP money & joining them in attacking DEMS.  Dr Fate   Aug-03-06 04:30 PM   #104 
     - Do you know anything about me?  LynneSin   Aug-03-06 04:33 PM   #105 
        - I dont understand why some defend rather than denounce this scandal.  Dr Fate   Aug-03-06 04:50 PM   #106 
  - Very nice- but Rick's Pick cant win in PA.  Dr Fate   Aug-03-06 03:52 PM   #94 
     - If the fascist crook  ProudDad   Aug-03-06 04:01 PM   #97 
        - It will be the fault of whoever is attacking us and lying about us.  Dr Fate   Aug-03-06 04:03 PM   #98 
  - And the Bradleys and Olins  alvarezadams   Aug-03-06 05:24 PM   #110 
  - A matter of tactics.  kenfrequed   Aug-04-06 11:26 AM   #115 
  - I think its odd  kenfrequed   Aug-04-06 11:36 AM   #116 

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