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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
alvarezadams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #102
108. Sheesh
Precisely your modus operandi. Pot, kettle, black.

"Hardly, without the mechanisms to intimidate and harrass his opponents, the red-baiting tactics of McCarthy would not have worked, he would have been challenged on his views much earlier, and the nightmare of McCarthyism would not have happened."

THAT is sophistry, pure and simple. McCarthy HAD no mechanism outside the HUAC - he relied on demagoguery, smear and fear. Something not too distant from the DLC, I might add, painting "libs" as "out of touch extremists" and calling on a "move towards a non-existent center" in order to dismiss the traditional base of the DNC. The nightmare of McCarthy only existed because the RW saw fit, and not for the first time, to capitalize on a "red scare", bunching anything progressive with putative communism.

"I see your argument, I don't see compelling evidence that it is true. "

The inarguable funding links, the inarguable comments by DLC representatives themselves... you don't WANT to see.

"I see the RW attempting radical change (in American terms), I don't see a whole lot of success yet, (Social Security, Estate Tax etc). And I also see the American people turning away from these solutions which I believe will become evident in the November elections."

Christ! Don't you remember the Reagan years? Don't you remember the demise of the fairness doctrine, the Prop 13 baloney and an endless list of anti-New Deal legislation, not to mention rhetoric that has become platitudinous? Haven't you seen the DNC follow the lead of the DLC to the right? Haven't you seen Dubya re-elected? WAKE UP!!! And watch the GOP lose only a seat or two in the next elections.

"They have received money from them yes, along with many others...and I wish they wouldn't, but to imply this shows a level of control by the DLC among those affiliated with it is an assertion without evidence...and indeed I have shown instances to the contrary."

Control? I don't imply control, I STATE similar objectives.

"Even here as you point out there are internal mechanisms within Political Parties. Certainly members are given wide leeway, but in the U.S. there are many ways the Political Party exerts its power over members...committee assignments, favorable rules on legislation, money for campaigning, support of party members during reelection etc...the DLC has none of these..."

That is simply inane.

"Hillary Clinton is a perfect example. Read the threads on this board calling her a "Vichy Democrat", a "Zell-o-CRat", "Neocon," "Corporate Whore" and on and on and on. These are all based on perception...not fact."

That is simply naive. Perception is all in politics and politicians live and die on the basis of it. Hillary COULD clear this up in a heartbeat, calling the DLC for what it is, but she doesn't. Either she doesn't want to or she is so utterly out of touch that she doesn't even realize it.

"They are based largely on three things."

The fact that you ignore the war in Iraq shows your colours. You're transparent.

"In fact Hillary Clinton is at the progressive end of our Party, and always has been."


"Her ratings from corporate friendly organizations is almost universally poor, and her ratings from those that would be most injured by policies that you ascribe to the DLC, are very high."

Gawd. That isn't disingenuous, it's just NAIVE.

"You are not demonstrating any kind of credible link between the goals of these RW DLC backers, and the actions of the majority of DLC members."

While you're showing all the signs of cognitive dissonance.
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  -Hillary Clinton's ratings from the Best of the Liberal Groups... SaveElmer  Aug-02-06 01:29 PM   #0 
  - She also supported the war on Iraq 100%  Patchuli   Aug-02-06 01:32 PM   #1 
  - no  AJH032   Aug-02-06 09:23 PM   #20 
     - So she basically has Lieberman's position on it or John McCain's  GAPeace   Aug-02-06 09:26 PM   #23 
     - I disagree but more importantly,  Patchuli   Aug-02-06 09:34 PM   #28 
     - I am not so sure about that, but...........  NativeTexan   Aug-02-06 09:46 PM   #31 
        - Hill is Not Bill though  Patchuli   Aug-02-06 09:48 PM   #32 
           - Hill is NOT Bill...quite right!  NativeTexan   Aug-02-06 10:03 PM   #34 
              - True but Gore's a winner  Patchuli   Aug-02-06 11:22 PM   #50 
              - No doubt from this part of Texas!  NativeTexan   Aug-02-06 11:34 PM   #52 
                 - My stepdaughter is in Austin  Patchuli   Aug-02-06 11:36 PM   #53 
                    - I am NE of Dallas.....  NativeTexan   Aug-03-06 11:06 PM   #95 
                       - So it was mostly the Bush name from H.W.  Patchuli   Aug-03-06 11:57 PM   #100 
                          - YEAH..My point has ALWAYS BEEN.........  NativeTexan   Aug-04-06 07:25 AM   #101 
                             - I like real Texans  Patchuli   Aug-04-06 02:34 PM   #111 
                                - Of course not. He was a disaster as Governor, and......  NativeTexan   Aug-04-06 10:22 PM   #112 
                                   - Sounds like my state's 'Governator'  Patchuli   Aug-04-06 11:59 PM   #113 
                                      - By Statute is that way in Texas.......  NativeTexan   Aug-05-06 12:04 PM   #118 
              - Being better does not mean winning.  atfqn   Aug-03-06 06:01 AM   #61 
              - McCain has taken a hard right hand turn.  NativeTexan   Aug-03-06 10:58 PM   #94 
              - Have to disagree with you  rpannier   Aug-04-06 09:28 AM   #104 
     - Hillary voted FOR the war!  KalicoKitty   Aug-03-06 01:27 PM   #75 
  - She supports the WAR 100% and Joey 100%  wakeme2008   Aug-02-06 01:38 PM   #2 
  - Exactly!  MarkDevin   Aug-03-06 12:49 AM   #55 
  - I feel the same way...  KalicoKitty   Aug-03-06 01:28 PM   #76 
  - Hillary demanded that RUMSFELD..........  NativeTexan   Aug-03-06 11:09 PM   #97 
  - Yeah, FINALLY - 4 years late and a trillion dollars short.  Seabiscuit   Aug-04-06 10:06 AM   #106 
  - She'll get some points w/ me if she offers to campaign for Ned Lamont  Hippo_Tron   Aug-05-06 01:37 AM   #114 
  - here's another important stat for Hillary:  wyldwolf   Aug-02-06 01:38 PM   #3 
  - So for the graphically impaired (such as myself)...  SaveElmer   Aug-02-06 03:01 PM   #12 
  - yep - among Democrats  wyldwolf   Aug-02-06 03:02 PM   #13 
  - I guess my question is...  ElboRuum   Aug-04-06 01:43 PM   #110 
  - And so far as is reported  NoPasaran   Aug-02-06 01:44 PM   #4 
  - oooooooooo!  ronnykmarshall   Aug-02-06 01:47 PM   #6 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Aug-03-06 12:54 AM   #56 
  - These groups have just pawns of KKKarl Rove ......  ronnykmarshall   Aug-02-06 01:46 PM   #5 
  - ....  jonnyblitz   Aug-02-06 01:57 PM   #8 
  - In seemingly otherwise intelligent people,  AtomicKitten   Aug-02-06 01:55 PM   #7 
  - People get a notion in their head...  SaveElmer   Aug-02-06 02:20 PM   #9 
  - That may be true, however  BonnieJW   Aug-02-06 02:40 PM   #10 
  - That's the meme...  SaveElmer   Aug-02-06 02:46 PM   #11 
     - It's also the meme from the left "I have never met a Dem who would vote...  wyldwolf   Aug-02-06 03:06 PM   #14 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Aug-02-06 10:27 PM   #40 
  - Well, you responded didn't you!  Andromeda   Aug-03-06 04:24 AM   #59 
  - Hey, hey!  Andromeda   Aug-03-06 04:22 AM   #58 
  - I agree  underpants   Aug-03-06 09:56 AM   #65 
  - Excellent post. (eom)  oasis   Aug-03-06 11:46 PM   #99 
  - Here are CLinton's ratings...with Feingold's...for comparison...  SaveElmer   Aug-02-06 03:54 PM   #15 
  - Those poll ratings are lies ...  ronnykmarshall   Aug-02-06 07:14 PM   #17 
  - That's right...  SaveElmer   Aug-02-06 07:17 PM   #18 
  - Plus Feingold stabbed Bill Clinton in the back  wyldwolf   Aug-03-06 04:44 AM   #60 
  - And Feingold voted for 50% of Bush's Supreme Court nominees  beaconess   Aug-03-06 11:08 PM   #96 
  - Which is exactly why she'll have 100% of my support when she runs.  T Town Jake   Aug-02-06 06:19 PM   #16 
  - thank you  AJH032   Aug-02-06 09:22 PM   #19 
  - She also supports the death penalty and co-sponsored an anti-flag-burning  MarkDevin   Aug-02-06 09:24 PM   #21 
  - Absolutely unconditionally wrong on the flag amendment...  SaveElmer   Aug-02-06 09:26 PM   #22 
  - She just supports criminalizing it  GAPeace   Aug-02-06 09:26 PM   #25 
  - Can you say free speech zone?  LincolnMcGrath   Aug-02-06 09:28 PM   #26 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Aug-02-06 09:30 PM   #27 
     - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Aug-02-06 09:35 PM   #29 
  - But she HAS supported legislation that would outlaw it...  annabanana   Aug-03-06 01:46 PM   #82 
  - We don't talk about that around here.  LincolnMcGrath   Aug-02-06 09:26 PM   #24 
  - Half of your statement is flatly untrue  MrBenchley   Aug-02-06 10:02 PM   #33 
  - That particular piece of disinformation will never die...  SaveElmer   Aug-02-06 10:05 PM   #36 
  - You will notice none of these far left wowsers EVER  MrBenchley   Aug-02-06 10:07 PM   #37 
     - They probably haven't even bothered to look into it...  SaveElmer   Aug-02-06 10:18 PM   #38 
     -'s a dreary little mob  MrBenchley   Aug-02-06 10:25 PM   #39 
     - Jack Murtha isn't running for President  Hippo_Tron   Aug-05-06 01:42 AM   #115 
  - People of the Left believe in liberty, sir.  KaptBunnyPants   Aug-02-06 11:32 PM   #51 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Aug-03-06 05:15 PM   #88 
  - LOL! Unless someone wants to call flag burning a hate crime  MrBenchley   Aug-05-06 12:19 PM   #119 
  - It is an expression of free speech - We don't necessarily want  annabanana   Aug-03-06 01:47 PM   #83 
     - It's speech the way a punch in the nose is a song  MrBenchley   Aug-03-06 05:19 PM   #89 
        - The Supreme Court has said otherwise on two occasions  Hippo_Tron   Aug-05-06 01:43 AM   #116 
  - I wonder why the far right are all so gung ho to burn the Constitution,  LincolnMcGrath   Aug-02-06 10:05 PM   #35 
  - Oops! I meant "law," not "amendment." Sorry about that!  MarkDevin   Aug-03-06 12:56 AM   #57 
  - She is better than people here give her credit for  nasher   Aug-02-06 09:43 PM   #30 
  - the far right are all so gung ho promoting Hillary as our choice for  Imagevision   Aug-02-06 10:28 PM   #41 
  - I see some folks disagree with her on several issues - as do I  Mr_Spock   Aug-02-06 10:28 PM   #42 
  - Hillary supported the destruction of Lebanon 100% in 2006  IndianaGreen   Aug-02-06 10:45 PM   #43 
  - So did Ned Lamont, the Unknown Millionaire  MrBenchley   Aug-02-06 10:47 PM   #44 
     - Or Russ Feingold...nt  SaveElmer   Aug-02-06 10:49 PM   #45 
        - Tain't the heat, it's the hypocrisy.....  MrBenchley   Aug-02-06 10:53 PM   #46 
           - And the ability...  SaveElmer   Aug-02-06 11:01 PM   #47 
              - Denial ain't just a river in Egypt...  MrBenchley   Aug-02-06 11:07 PM   #48 
  - Senator Clinton supported the interests of  alvarezadams   Aug-02-06 11:08 PM   #49 
  -  AJH032   Aug-03-06 12:47 AM   #54 
     - Ever notice when you ask for proof, the Hillary bashing liars disappear?  mtnsnake   Aug-03-06 09:30 AM   #63 
     - I noticed that  Cocoa   Aug-03-06 07:19 PM   #93 
     - Hmmm?  alvarezadams   Aug-03-06 10:22 AM   #67 
        - The National Stone Sand, and Gravel Association..uh ok  SaveElmer   Aug-03-06 11:07 AM   #68 
        - Wake up  alvarezadams   Aug-03-06 12:49 PM   #70 
        - And show me the exact mechanisms of power...  SaveElmer   Aug-03-06 01:00 PM   #71 
           - Disingenuous  alvarezadams   Aug-03-06 01:16 PM   #73 
              - So there is no mechanism...  SaveElmer   Aug-03-06 01:23 PM   #74 
                 - Neither was there a mechanism  alvarezadams   Aug-03-06 05:21 PM   #90 
                    - Response...  SaveElmer   Aug-03-06 06:07 PM   #92 
                       - Sophistry?  alvarezadams   Aug-03-06 11:36 PM   #98 
                          - Yes Sophistry...  SaveElmer   Aug-04-06 09:10 AM   #102 
                             - Sheesh  alvarezadams   Aug-04-06 12:32 PM   #108 
                                - Are you kidding?  SaveElmer   Aug-04-06 01:32 PM   #109 
        - Kucinich is a Bircher!?!?!  rinsd   Aug-03-06 01:31 PM   #77 
           - Well I was gonna...  SaveElmer   Aug-03-06 01:38 PM   #79 
              - Oh man.,......wading into the Birchers....I rather hang with freepers  rinsd   Aug-03-06 01:44 PM   #81 
              - That's why I didn't do it...  SaveElmer   Aug-03-06 01:51 PM   #85 
              - It just goes to show...  alvarezadams   Aug-03-06 05:22 PM   #91 
        - I'm really curious  AJH032   Aug-03-06 12:45 PM   #69 
           - If you are, look it up.  alvarezadams   Aug-03-06 01:15 PM   #72 
              - Dennis Kucinich's ranking with the Taxpayer's for Common Sense is  SaveElmer   Aug-03-06 01:37 PM   #78 
                 - Indicative?  alvarezadams   Aug-03-06 05:12 PM   #87 
  - Morning kick for the distinguished senator  NoPasaran   Aug-03-06 08:11 AM   #62 
  - people lie about Clinton  Cocoa   Aug-03-06 09:40 AM   #64 
  - "and a lot of DUers believe it."  mtnsnake   Aug-03-06 09:58 AM   #66 
  - Leadership Conference on Civil Rights ? Whither ACLU? n/t  annabanana   Aug-03-06 01:41 PM   #80 
  - ACLU ranking...  SaveElmer   Aug-03-06 01:49 PM   #84 
  - I applaud her vivisection of Rumsfeld.  lebkuchen   Aug-03-06 03:28 PM   #86 
  - Yeah but...  rpannier   Aug-04-06 09:19 AM   #103 
  - Well this is America...  SaveElmer   Aug-04-06 09:55 AM   #105 
  - Support of Iraq invasion is paramount.  Xap   Aug-04-06 10:46 AM   #107 
  - I'm going to respond with one word: Iraq  Hippo_Tron   Aug-05-06 01:49 AM   #117 

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