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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
alvarezadams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Response
"When in American history has this been true? In fact, in the darkest and most fragile of times, Americans have consistently rejected radical political or economic solutions to crisis...."

The founding of the Republican party and radical republicanism... and the New Deal prove you wrong.

"Hamilton and Jefferson were mortal enemies, their contest centered on the type of country we would become - one based on manufacture and market forces, or one, more romantic, based on the virtous agrarian. "

More because Hamilton believed in a more autocratic government (indeed, he wanted an American aristocracy).

As for the Civil War not ripping apart social and economic structures, this is plainly ridiculous. Without considering the demise of the South's entire socioeconomic structure, the creation of the national debt, greenbacks and the like revolutionized the North's way of life. As for politics, Recontruction wasn't exactly a bland little happenstance, while the trade union movement in the post-Civil War period was revolutionary to say the least.

It seems that you are arguing something that had little to do with my post. You seem to be arguing that the US is not prone to revolutions - I argued that we normally have a party in power and an opposition, with a palpable difference between them. This difference need not be "revolutionary", although on occassion it virtually was (remember the Bull Moose/mugwumpers and why they came about?).

"The idealogical differences in parties has always been very narrow in the United States, and given numerous opportunities to change that, the American people have rejected a movement to radical solutions to serious problems."

New Deal vs. classical Republicanism? Or how about the current situation where our entire economic system has been changed by a virtual "palace revolution" - out with Keynes and in with Von Misses. Teddy's Trust Busting... If you have a point it is that the electorate rarely understands what is at stake and is presented with a fait accompli when the diverse radical changes have taken place.

"There is no evidence, none, that things have changed. A radical reorienting of the political structure on the order of what you appear to be advocating is not going to happen."

There is plenty of evidence. The neoliberal economic policies are a radical shift from the previous decades'. The neoconservative foreign policy has made us an aggressor nation, abandoning the internatinalism that marked our foreign policy for half a century. We have an unprecedented corruption of the system in the form of billions spent on indoctrinating the electorate.

As for a radical reorienting of the political structure, what do you mean? Can you be more specific?

"Change toward a more accountable government through political reform and a re-balance of power between the citizenry and corporate America is not going to happen by advocating radical, short term change."

You figure it will happen by itself? I'm not asking for anything more than what has happened in the past (Teddy Roosevelt).

"That course of action will be rejected by the American people as it always has been. It will happen in very small and incremental steps."

Again, you seem to view our history with blinders.

"In my view, voting for the Democratic candidate moves us in the right direction, no matter how small the step...and that is why I care whether there is a D after the name of the candidate I vote for."

Well, vote for a DLC candidate and you'll see how we'll move even further to the right.
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