You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Reply #175: Some people just want to be right and will not "get " . . . [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
Sugarcoated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-25-06 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #107
175. Some people just want to be right and will not "get " . . .
Edited on Tue Jul-25-06 06:31 PM by Sugarcoated
what you are sincerely trying to find out with this thread. I find your points worthwhile and worth trying to see. Especially the one above.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
  -Simple Question: Does Israel have a right to defend itself? Sparkly  Jul-23-06 10:34 AM   #0 
  - define "defend"  mzteris   Jul-23-06 10:35 AM   #1 
  - exactly  ret5hd   Jul-23-06 10:35 AM   #2 
  - Including, but not limited to, use of force. nt  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 10:35 AM   #3 
  - How much force and where is it applied?  democracyindanger   Jul-23-06 10:38 AM   #4 
  - It is a simple question.  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 10:39 AM   #7 
     - The problem is "it is too simple" ...war is not a simple question..  movonne   Jul-23-06 11:24 AM   #18 
  - Absolutely.  BayCityProgressive   Jul-23-06 10:38 AM   #5 
  - When Israel kills 200+ civilians looking for the badguys? they're no  Imagevision   Jul-23-06 08:00 PM   #116 
     - The question at hand is not "are they defending themselves, and only that"  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 08:02 PM   #117 
  - How much force?  mzteris   Jul-23-06 10:59 AM   #16 
     - If someone persists in harassing you, eventually you will be at the end of  fuzzyball   Jul-23-06 04:12 PM   #84 
        - I bet you read  mzteris   Jul-23-06 04:51 PM   #86 
        - Actually I used to think that but then this opened my eyes...  fuzzyball   Jul-23-06 09:42 PM   #124 
           - How did the British occupation of India end?  MN Against Bush   Jul-25-06 11:02 PM   #176 
        - Yeah  Debs   Jul-24-06 03:51 PM   #154 
  - I think it is a given that they have a right to defend themselves.  Freedom_from_Chains   Jul-23-06 10:47 AM   #11 
  - I think we all have a working knowledge of the general definition. I have  MJDuncan1982   Jul-23-06 02:08 PM   #38 
  - I disagree.  mzteris   Jul-23-06 02:15 PM   #42 
     - Well it's not defensive if it's overkill. That's my point. We know what is  MJDuncan1982   Jul-23-06 02:27 PM   #44 
        - Well evidently the OP  mzteris   Jul-23-06 02:39 PM   #47 
  - Israel Gov's definition of self-defense: slaughter innocent children  God Almighty   Jul-23-06 06:33 PM   #103 
     - In YOUR definition of self-defense....  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 07:22 PM   #110 
  - Of course they do, but that's NOT what they are doing.  leesa   Jul-23-06 10:39 AM   #6 
  - Push-Polling at its finest  Cronus Protagonist   Jul-24-06 05:24 PM   #156 
  - The question is too simple.....  panader0   Jul-23-06 10:40 AM   #8 
  - Agreed  HooptieWagon   Jul-23-06 10:48 AM   #14 
     - Actually, it's not a matter of "right'  cali   Jul-23-06 12:07 PM   #21 
  - I feel i am being manipulated. I can't participate in this poll. nt  jonnyblitz   Jul-23-06 10:43 AM   #9 
  - Of course, but not preemptively  WatchWhatISay   Jul-23-06 10:47 AM   #10 
  - yep, manipulation...i won't participate either.  NotGivingUp   Jul-23-06 10:47 AM   #12 
  - I'm looking forward to your next polls,  ayeshahaqqiqa   Jul-23-06 10:47 AM   #13 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-23-06 10:51 AM   #15 
  - "The question isn't the RIGHT to defend one's self."  LoZoccolo   Jul-23-06 01:44 PM   #29 
  - Ah, another one who wants to broadbrush?  alvarezadams   Jul-23-06 01:54 PM   #32 
     - This isn't turning one question into another question  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 01:57 PM   #33 
        - I don't believe you  alvarezadams   Jul-23-06 02:04 PM   #35 
           - "every country has such a right" -- okay. nt  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 02:05 PM   #36 
  - Not exactly  Jai4WKC08   Jul-23-06 02:03 PM   #34 
  - Fair enough  alvarezadams   Jul-23-06 02:06 PM   #37 
     - If these attacks are reprisals  Jai4WKC08   Jul-23-06 02:50 PM   #58 
        - I think that the problem...  alvarezadams   Jul-23-06 03:02 PM   #67 
           - Perhaps a better link:  alvarezadams   Jul-23-06 03:06 PM   #68 
           - I can't go along with lumping PNAC and the DLC  Jai4WKC08   Jul-23-06 03:39 PM   #80 
              - You'll have to just deal with it then  alvarezadams   Jul-24-06 10:59 AM   #151 
  - What principle of International Law requires a state to exhaust all  MJDuncan1982   Jul-23-06 02:09 PM   #39 
     - The UN Charter  alvarezadams   Jul-23-06 02:41 PM   #49 
  - I agree with the responders who call this the wrong question.  Jim__   Jul-23-06 11:23 AM   #17 
  - I think it's a great question. It's a base question that must be answered  MJDuncan1982   Jul-23-06 02:11 PM   #40 
     - No, we can't be allowed to set our principles first.  BullGooseLoony   Jul-24-06 06:11 AM   #137 
  - All nations have a right to defend themselves.  Crunchy Frog   Jul-23-06 11:27 AM   #19 
  - Wow  Debs   Jul-24-06 03:58 PM   #155 
  - kick  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 11:53 AM   #20 
  - Is invading another nation an act of defense? Bush says yes.  Radical Activist   Jul-23-06 12:12 PM   #22 
  - Itself, yes; its conquests, no.  Donald Ian Rankin   Jul-23-06 12:12 PM   #23 
  - Defend yes, unleash a blitzkrieg on another country....NO.  Cascadian   Jul-23-06 12:19 PM   #24 
  - yes and so do the Palestinians and neither has the right to harm civilians  Douglas Carpenter   Jul-23-06 12:54 PM   #25 
  - In proportion to the threat  JNelson6563   Jul-23-06 01:00 PM   #26 
  - Those who voted "no" -- would you explain your point of view, please? nt  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 01:28 PM   #27 
  - If you wanted more than a "simple yes or no"  democracyindanger   Jul-23-06 01:43 PM   #28 
  - Interesting.  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 01:46 PM   #30 
     - What do you think the odds are  democracyindanger   Jul-23-06 01:52 PM   #31 
        - Well that's pretty intellectually dishonest. If you don't like the poll,  MJDuncan1982   Jul-23-06 02:12 PM   #41 
           - I don't disagree  democracyindanger   Jul-23-06 02:31 PM   #45 
              - I wouldn't have a problem saying, "No, we should not kill babies."  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 02:40 PM   #48 
                 - Define "baby". n/t  mzteris   Jul-23-06 02:42 PM   #51 
                 - LOL  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 02:48 PM   #55 
                    - "Pro-lifers" say  mzteris   Jul-23-06 02:50 PM   #59 
                       - Easy answer: No.  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 02:58 PM   #65 
                          - You HAVE to define "baby"  mzteris   Jul-23-06 04:52 PM   #87 
                             - I've defined "baby."  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 04:54 PM   #89 
                             - Ah - but you're asking people  mzteris   Jul-23-06 04:56 PM   #91 
                                - That's right.  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 05:17 PM   #93 
                                   - *I* understand what you're saying.....  mzteris   Jul-23-06 05:52 PM   #95 
                                      - Someplace inbetween  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 06:23 PM   #99 
                                         - take a look  mzteris   Jul-23-06 06:27 PM   #101 
                                         - That's a push-poll.  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 07:18 PM   #108 
                                         - And that makes you a good debater. nt  BullGooseLoony   Jul-24-06 06:19 AM   #139 
                             - No, you don't. I'm pro-choice whether it's a baby or not. nt  BullGooseLoony   Jul-24-06 06:18 AM   #138 
                 - So you don't think women should have control of their bodies?  democracyindanger   Jul-23-06 02:49 PM   #57 
                    - Do you think a fetus is a baby?  Jai4WKC08   Jul-23-06 02:52 PM   #61 
                    - You're getting into details.  democracyindanger   Jul-23-06 02:55 PM   #63 
                    - LOL!!!  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 02:59 PM   #66 
                       - What's funny  democracyindanger   Jul-23-06 03:24 PM   #76 
                          - Yeah, I'm a little slow, huh...  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 03:35 PM   #78 
                             - One gets that a lot around here. nt  BullGooseLoony   Jul-24-06 06:06 AM   #136 
  - I voted no because "right" implies an absolute right.  Donald Ian Rankin   Jul-24-06 08:15 AM   #140 
  - As you can see, and knew already, it is not as you claimed  bennywhale   Jul-24-06 10:38 AM   #147 
  - Does Iraq  skeeters2525   Jul-23-06 02:18 PM   #43 
  - Okay, I'll respond.... This has been fascinating.  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 02:32 PM   #46 
  - so have you stopped beating your wife?  mzteris   Jul-23-06 02:41 PM   #50 
  - Do you think I asked a trick question?  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 02:43 PM   #52 
     - under the circumstances, yes.  mzteris   Jul-23-06 02:47 PM   #54 
        - That's a separate question.  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 02:49 PM   #56 
        - Why do you say that?  mzteris   Jul-23-06 02:52 PM   #60 
           - Yes, that's what this thread shows.  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 02:55 PM   #64 
              - It shouldn't be astonishing.  mzteris   Jul-23-06 04:54 PM   #88 
                 - :)  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 05:16 PM   #92 
                    - By george - I think you're getting it!  mzteris   Jul-23-06 05:46 PM   #94 
                       - "the methodology" -- I don't think you're getting it  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 06:07 PM   #97 
                          - Probably not the best example to use for me......  mzteris   Jul-23-06 06:26 PM   #100 
                             - Some things need to be stated in black and white terms.  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 07:16 PM   #107 
                                - You're talking to the wrong person  mzteris   Jul-23-06 08:14 PM   #118 
                                - You still don't get it.  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 08:20 PM   #119 
                                   - No - YOU don't get it!  mzteris   Jul-23-06 08:28 PM   #120 
                                - Some people just want to be right and will not "get " . . .  Sugarcoated   Jul-25-06 06:29 PM   #175 
        - That's not a fair comparison  Jai4WKC08   Jul-23-06 03:15 PM   #73 
           - (sigh) - - define "defend".......  mzteris   Jul-23-06 04:55 PM   #90 
  - It helps when you explain your reasoning  alvarezadams   Jul-23-06 02:46 PM   #53 
  - Raised eyebrows  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 02:54 PM   #62 
     - Aw c'mon  alvarezadams   Jul-23-06 03:08 PM   #69 
     - My answer would be "yes."  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 03:08 PM   #70 
        - You wouldn't have thought twice...  alvarezadams   Jul-23-06 03:11 PM   #71 
           - Good grief. What have we become when  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 03:17 PM   #74 
              - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-23-06 03:25 PM   #77 
     - unambigious  oberliner   Jul-23-06 03:13 PM   #72 
        - Precisely. nt  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 03:18 PM   #75 
  - New Question -- do the Palestinians have a right to defend themselves? n/t  stranger81   Jul-23-06 03:41 PM   #81 
     - Yes. nt  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 03:49 PM   #83 
     - Have the Israeli's instigated or started any attacks on Palestinians?  fuzzyball   Jul-23-06 04:16 PM   #85 
        - I can't believe you're asking this.  Donald Ian Rankin   Jul-24-06 08:20 AM   #141 
           - The real question is who STARTS the trouble first?  fuzzyball   Jul-24-06 10:30 AM   #145 
              - Probably, but not certainly, not.  Donald Ian Rankin   Jul-24-06 10:57 AM   #150 
              - Agree & disagree. Agree that Israeli retribution is far too disproportiona  fuzzyball   Jul-24-06 10:26 PM   #157 
                 - Ah, not exactly  Debs   Jul-25-06 06:59 AM   #164 
                 - Looks like you have better information than the MSM.....congrats!  fuzzyball   Jul-25-06 12:47 PM   #170 
                    - Actually I think its silly  Debs   Jul-25-06 05:20 PM   #172 
                 - If I were the government of Israel  Donald Ian Rankin   Jul-25-06 09:43 AM   #169 
                    - My guess is Israel would basically go along with your plan IF  fuzzyball   Jul-25-06 12:51 PM   #171 
                       - I think you're overoptimistic.  Donald Ian Rankin   Jul-25-06 05:38 PM   #173 
              - Yes I believe Israel would attack Lebbanon  Debs   Jul-25-06 06:55 AM   #163 
              - Who here remembers the name  Debs   Jul-25-06 07:12 AM   #167 
  - what a straw man  stranger81   Jul-23-06 03:38 PM   #79 
  - "Whether Israel ...has the right to DEFEND itself is not in question."  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 03:49 PM   #82 
  - nt  BullGooseLoony   Jul-24-06 05:41 AM   #134 
  - When did "an eye for an eye" become "an eye for you and your kids' lives"?  Czolgosz   Jul-23-06 06:01 PM   #96 
  - I didn't ask, "Is Israel defending itself, and only defending itself?"  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 06:09 PM   #98 
     - Does an alcoholic have a  mzteris   Jul-23-06 06:28 PM   #102 
     - So your answer is "yes."  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 07:25 PM   #112 
     - I didn't respond to your poll question. But while we're chatting when did  Czolgosz   Jul-23-06 06:36 PM   #104 
        - I'm neither asking that, nor debating it. See my reply above. nt  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 07:19 PM   #109 
           - How about this one: Does Israel's right to defend itself exceed Lebanon's?  Czolgosz   Jul-23-06 07:25 PM   #111 
              - No. nt  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 07:25 PM   #113 
                 - How 'bout: Does Israel have a right to attack a whole country to defend  Czolgosz   Jul-23-06 07:33 PM   #114 
                    - That's a debate on what constitutes defense -- a second question.  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 07:37 PM   #115 
                       - But the debate you ask about is not a real debate, as your results suggest  Czolgosz   Jul-23-06 10:40 PM   #125 
                          - Huh? What's the "debate I ask about?" Splain, I'm slow.... nt  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 10:42 PM   #126 
                             - The question "does Israel have a right to defend itself" is a false debate  Czolgosz   Jul-23-06 11:09 PM   #127 
                                - I disagree. It's a real question.  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 11:20 PM   #128 
                                   - You know (or should know) the 13% saying "no" are those objecting to your  Czolgosz   Jul-24-06 12:03 AM   #129 
                                   - If every democracy has a right to defend itself  Sparkly   Jul-24-06 12:07 AM   #130 
                                   - Do you disagree your thread is more debate about the bias of your question  Czolgosz   Jul-24-06 12:17 AM   #131 
                                      - Yes, and isn't that amazing?  Sparkly   Jul-24-06 01:10 AM   #132 
                                   - I voted no because it includes disproportionate force n/t  Slaughtermeyer   Jul-24-06 08:23 AM   #143 
                                   - I think you are making assumptions  Debs   Jul-25-06 07:05 AM   #165 
  - Well, Bush says he's defending USA in Iraq. Poll that  Little Star   Jul-23-06 06:46 PM   #105 
  - "Does America have a right to defend itself?"  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 07:12 PM   #106 
  - Stupid question, refuse to answer.  guidod   Jul-23-06 08:56 PM   #121 
  - "Stupid question?"  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 09:31 PM   #122 
     - It's clearly a loaded question...  V. Kid   Jul-24-06 04:36 AM   #133 
  - I hope the 15% who voted "no" will come out of the closet  Sparkly   Jul-23-06 09:34 PM   #123 
  - I have done so further up the page.  Donald Ian Rankin   Jul-24-06 08:22 AM   #142 
  - In theory, yes.  BullGooseLoony   Jul-24-06 05:57 AM   #135 
  - Not a simple question, and no simple answer.  LWolf   Jul-24-06 08:42 AM   #144 
  - Stupid question which leads to the wrong place. There's lies, lies  bennywhale   Jul-24-06 10:35 AM   #146 
  - Attacked First?  cookiebird   Jul-24-06 10:40 AM   #148 
  - And statements from Jews that  Debs   Jul-25-06 07:09 AM   #166 
  - of course.  ulysses   Jul-24-06 10:42 AM   #149 
  - Why don't we make a special place for these posts so we don't have  Sapere aude   Jul-24-06 11:06 AM   #152 
  - Of course Israel has a right to defend itself  Debs   Jul-24-06 03:48 PM   #153 
  - Yes, every nation has the right of self-defense, however  IndianaGreen   Jul-24-06 10:36 PM   #158 
  - from what?  leftofthedial   Jul-24-06 10:40 PM   #159 
  - does anyone have the right to defend themselves while  samsingh   Jul-25-06 12:00 AM   #160 
  - yes, Israel has a right to defend itself....  unkachuck   Jul-25-06 12:45 AM   #161 
  - of course, but that doesn't justify it's current actions  rman   Jul-25-06 01:16 AM   #162 
  - Yes. Every sovereign nation has the right to defend itself.  baldguy   Jul-25-06 08:00 AM   #168 
  - Yes, but not to the extent of indiscriminately bombing innocent civilians.  Zhade   Jul-25-06 05:54 PM   #174 
 

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC