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Reply #128: Current reality strengthens Clark's 08 hand [View All]

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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #123
128. Current reality strengthens Clark's 08 hand
Edited on Tue May-09-06 11:35 AM by Tom Rinaldo
Had Cheney and Rumsfeld not been so arrogant, had the Pentagon been allowed to use the war plans for Iraq that had been prepared as a contingency during the preceding decade, had Bush committed the real number of troops needed to provide a semblance of security to Iraq post invasion, had Rumsfeld not ripped post invasion "nation building" away from Powell's State Department and given that task instead to Cheney and Rice's people, then maybe Clark's moment in the Presidential spot light might have passed with 2004.

But none of that happened, instead the world has become a more dangerous place for Americans than at any time since September 11th 2001. Current Iraq is obviously exhibit A, but even Afghanistan is showing signs of increasing instability, while North Korea has gotten Nukes, and a military confrontation is looming with Iran. Add to that the fact that Al Quada recruitment is up, and President Abbas of the Palestinian Authority has lost control of his government to Hamas. Anti-American sentiment is growing in South America, and Russia is increasingly refusing to cooperate with the United States. Both Russia and Venezuela are important Oil exporters to the United States, as hedges against our dependency on Middle Eastern Oil.

Meanwhile Clark's repeated testimony to Congress regarding the real international threats faced by the United States and how to manage them, stretching from 2002 through 2005, are increasingly widely recognized as having been prophetic. But perhaps more telling politically than Clark's congressional testimony, will be Clark's television commentary to America on the FOX network over the last year. Time and time again Clark has been right about the broad range of security issues facing America that he gave expert commentary on, even though the FOX jocks fought him tooth and nail over every inch of territory he covered. Each time the Republicans found an excuse to brag that the corner had been turned in Iraq, Clark was there to counter them, even when other Democrats were stepping lightly.

In the wake of every single "success" Iraq experienced while "moving toward" a "Democratic independent government"; the hand over of authority to an Iraq provisional authority, the first Iraq elections, the Constitutional referendum, the second Iraq elections, each time Clark stood his ground and pointed out the very real danger that Iraq still faced for coming apart at the seems. With each "corner turned" more Democrats were emboldened to join Clark in his relative pessimism, but can you remember the jubilant televised scenes of Iraqi's smiling while they waved their purple thumbs in the air after the first national elections? Republicans were all over the airwaves ready to jump on any Democrat who dared question the good news from Baghdad, and most Democrats were hesitant to say anything less than positive about those elections. Yet, even before that purple ink dried, Clark was calmly and unhesitatingly citing the dangers still present in Iraq, on FOX of all places, inside the Lion's Den.

Clark has earned some real credibility now with a public that largely was unaware of him in 2004, an unawareness that then gave Clark's opponents an opportunity to negatively define Clark before most people had much sense of who he really was. In specific, and important to his potential chances in 2008, Clark has earned some real credibility with members of the Democratic Party at all levels since 2004. He did it the old fashioned way, Clark worked hard for it, by continually busting his butt for the Democratic Party in every corner of the nation, and at every level of the Party. Clark is better known for who he is now, rather than for who he symbolized in 2004. Clark is recognized as being among our Party's current leaders. He was one of Kerry's top surrogates in 2004. He shared the spot light when Congressional Democrats unveiled their points of unity on National Security this year, and Clark delivered the National Democratic Party's Saturday radio addressee three times in the last year or so. Plus Clark has non stop been honing his media and campaigning "chops", something else he had little or no time to do prior to his entry into 2004's race. He is a much more formidable politician now than he was as a fresh rookie in 2004.

Unlike in 2004, when Clark had little or no time to prepare detailed policies on many issues until the race was well underway, Clark will campaign as a multi dimensional Democrat should he run again in 2008. Wes Clark and Al Gore are the two Democratic leaders who have consistently done the most to highlight the dangers of Global Warming over the past year, and that is an issue whose time will finally have come by 2008. Clark also spoke out this year on the need for the United States to move to a single payer health care system, another issue whose time has surely come. For all of those reasons and more, Wes Clark's time as a leading potential Presidential contender has far from passed. Check your schedule, it is arriving shortly on track number Eight. Meanwhile Clark isn't standing around waiting at that platform. You'll find General Clark still hard at work, his attention firmly fixed, on track number Six.
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  -Anecdotal Evidence Why Wes Clark '08 xkenx  May-07-06 02:47 PM   #0 
  - And I totally agree.  acmavm   May-07-06 03:04 PM   #1 
  - Wes is the one.  democrank   May-07-06 03:07 PM   #2 
  - I'm with you all the way...  Totally Committed   May-07-06 03:43 PM   #3 
  - Same here.  high density   May-07-06 05:20 PM   #19 
  - If GORE doesn't run, I'll wholeheartedly support Wes Clark  AtomicKitten   May-07-06 03:44 PM   #4 
  - Yes, Wes has developed a political savvy, while  xkenx   May-07-06 03:57 PM   #6 
  - So, he likes that Clark is aligned with Kerry on all those same liberal  blm   May-07-06 03:53 PM   #5 
  - Well, at least Clark didn't vote "yes" on the IWR.  AtomicKitten   May-07-06 04:02 PM   #7 
  - That's not the point is it? The point is that Kerry was too liberal on  blm   May-07-06 04:07 PM   #9 
  - of course * and his regime are to blame  AtomicKitten   May-07-06 04:13 PM   #11 
  - What about the stink of ANY war of the last 35 yrs that has been proven  blm   May-07-06 04:17 PM   #13 
     - No, they didn't.  AtomicKitten   May-07-06 04:28 PM   #15 
        - I spent almost 20yrs in California and heard alot of horror stories from  blm   May-07-06 04:48 PM   #16 
  - As I said down-thread...  Totally Committed   May-07-06 05:48 PM   #23 
  - Yeah - the people who hated Kerry for exposing St. Ronnie Reagan and Bush1  blm   May-08-06 10:20 AM   #74 
     - They have no facts, but it doesn't matter  Jai4WKC08   May-08-06 12:19 PM   #92 
  - Breaking: Red-neck conservatives will listen to a liberal General. nt  Clarkie1   May-07-06 10:24 PM   #54 
  - Gore voted for the first Persian Gulf war  wyldwolf   May-08-06 06:58 AM   #67 
     - In fairness to Gore  Jai4WKC08   May-08-06 10:21 AM   #75 
        - Sure, in fairness to Gore, who I support...  wyldwolf   May-08-06 05:53 PM   #113 
           - How can you say that the IWR wasn't an authorization for War? when  FrenchieCat   May-09-06 10:57 AM   #126 
              - it was an authorization under specific circumstances  paulk   May-09-06 05:32 PM   #132 
                 - thank you.  wyldwolf   May-09-06 06:55 PM   #134 
                 - I'm sorry....but I read the resolution.....  FrenchieCat   May-09-06 08:34 PM   #136 
                    - the full title of the IWR is - "a joint resolution to authorize the use  paulk   May-10-06 12:42 PM   #137 
                       - EXACTLY - and those who blame the IWR are HELPING Bush to cover up  blm   May-10-06 12:49 PM   #138 
  - That was my point.  xkenx   May-07-06 04:06 PM   #8 
  - YOU'RE not going to point to them that Clark is progressive, but the RNC  blm   May-07-06 04:09 PM   #10 
     - Clark's uniform is the teflon coat  xkenx   May-07-06 04:17 PM   #12 
        - I hope Clark's campaign doesn't operate under that level of naivete.  blm   May-07-06 04:22 PM   #14 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   May-07-06 11:43 PM   #61 
           - So you disagree that media bestows Teflon? Then Clark won't NEED anyone  blm   May-08-06 11:00 AM   #80 
              - Teflon, to whatever extent present, is not bullet proof  Tom Rinaldo   May-08-06 11:14 AM   #84 
                 - See - you get the point I make - DNC expected Silver and Bronze Stars and  blm   May-08-06 11:26 AM   #89 
        - Don't you see that that was exactly what people  karynnj   May-07-06 04:49 PM   #17 
           - There is a difference between Clark and Kerry's uniform.....  FrenchieCat   May-07-06 05:37 PM   #20 
           - That's not the point  karynnj   May-07-06 06:00 PM   #24 
              - As you know, there is more to a candidate than their experience....  FrenchieCat   May-07-06 07:28 PM   #35 
                 - I think it did help Kerry to win NH  karynnj   May-07-06 08:24 PM   #40 
                    - 2004 was a truncated primary.....  FrenchieCat   May-07-06 08:26 PM   #41 
           - Will someone please explain to me why these pro-Clark threads  Totally Committed   May-07-06 05:44 PM   #22 
              - Read the OP - it says Clark, not Kerry  karynnj   May-07-06 06:08 PM   #25 
              - Well, point taken....  Totally Committed   May-07-06 06:19 PM   #27 
                 - I live in a county where a large number  karynnj   May-07-06 06:28 PM   #29 
                    - Repubs in blue states...  Jai4WKC08   May-07-06 11:42 PM   #60 
              - The OP used Kerry as the foil - as usual. As if all the Dems needed was  blm   May-08-06 10:24 AM   #76 
                 - My OP was reporting a statement of a friend,  xkenx   May-08-06 11:07 AM   #82 
                 - What the public LEARNS about a candidate comes 95% from corporate media.  blm   May-08-06 11:16 AM   #86 
                    - I am NOT naive about Rethugs and corporate media.  xkenx   May-08-06 11:24 AM   #88 
                    - That would be nice - But I expect the fight will come from the pacs now  blm   May-08-06 11:35 AM   #90 
                    - I don't see anyone here  Jai4WKC08   May-08-06 12:01 PM   #91 
                       - In what way? Was Clark not a man who rooted out corruption in the military  blm   May-08-06 12:50 PM   #94 
                          - Care to elaborate?  Jai4WKC08   May-08-06 01:30 PM   #96 
                             - You said their backstories are so different - I replied, In what way?  blm   May-08-06 01:42 PM   #97 
                                - In reality their choices and values have much in common  Tom Rinaldo   May-08-06 01:53 PM   #99 
                                - Nothing so different that CAN'T be spun is my basic point.  blm   May-08-06 02:09 PM   #103 
                                - What Tom said, and this...  Jai4WKC08   May-08-06 02:33 PM   #107 
                                   - The biggest advantage is the tactic itself being OVERLOADED on Kerry in  blm   May-08-06 02:37 PM   #108 
                                      - I have my fingers crossed  Jai4WKC08   May-08-06 03:22 PM   #110 
                 - Not a "foil", a "standard"...  Totally Committed   May-08-06 06:20 PM   #115 
  - My son, the Republican,  Totally Committed   May-07-06 05:40 PM   #21 
  - Given his MOTHER's oft posted opinion of Kerry,  karynnj   May-07-06 06:21 PM   #28 
  - Actually, we in this house always loved Kerry -- me, especially...  Totally Committed   May-08-06 02:10 PM   #104 
  - It IS more - Your son APPROVED of Reagan-Bush1 policies that Kerry fought  blm   May-08-06 10:30 AM   #78 
  - He probably doesn't know, but  Jai4WKC08   May-07-06 06:08 PM   #26 
  - That was my point in the OP, but  xkenx   May-07-06 07:22 PM   #32 
  - Of course there is and disconnect.  Clark2008   May-07-06 07:40 PM   #36 
  - So, you are very politely saying  karynnj   May-07-06 08:33 PM   #42 
     - See - you took it the damn wrong way AGAIN  Clark2008   May-07-06 11:41 PM   #59 
        - I did NOT take it the wrong way  karynnj   May-08-06 06:38 AM   #64 
           - Yeah - you did.  Clark2008   May-08-06 11:15 AM   #85 
  - Like a lot of people said ...  Cosmocat   May-07-06 09:40 PM   #48 
     - I think you've hit upon it. Here's my experience.  xkenx   May-07-06 10:04 PM   #52 
        - Yep ...  Cosmocat   May-08-06 06:44 AM   #65 
  - It'd be great with me  union_maid   May-07-06 04:52 PM   #18 
  - A uniform is not everything.  madfloridian   May-07-06 06:47 PM   #30 
  - You're isn't,  FrenchieCat   May-07-06 07:23 PM   #33 
     - Ok, but if this war is not winnable,  karynnj   May-07-06 08:06 PM   #38 
        - I am careful to not engage in Kerry vs Clark type posts  Tom Rinaldo   May-07-06 08:21 PM   #39 
        - Tony, look at my first post (17)  karynnj   May-07-06 08:43 PM   #43 
           - Actually my argument was based on what each had done in real life.....  FrenchieCat   May-07-06 08:54 PM   #45 
              - Do you think the war can be won militarily then?  karynnj   May-07-06 09:45 PM   #49 
                 - Wrong question. What policy will result in the least  Tom Rinaldo   May-07-06 10:06 PM   #53 
                 - No wars can be won militarily  Donna Zen   May-07-06 10:54 PM   #57 
                    - And Wes was instrumental in the negotiation of a peace treaty.....  FrenchieCat   May-07-06 11:22 PM   #58 
        - I don't know if saying we should just leave takes that much courage....  FrenchieCat   May-07-06 08:49 PM   #44 
        - Kerry is not saying "just leave"  karynnj   May-07-06 09:55 PM   #51 
           - I know you think that John Kerry deserves a lot of credit for moving  FrenchieCat   May-07-06 10:35 PM   #56 
        - I disagree...period!  windbreeze   May-07-06 08:55 PM   #46 
           - Read this DUer from a few months ago.  xkenx   May-07-06 10:30 PM   #55 
  - Did your friend know all that about Clark. I doubt it.,  Mass   May-07-06 06:49 PM   #31 
  - I agree that's possible, but  xkenx   May-07-06 07:26 PM   #34 
  - The opinions of the avg repug are not grounded in much truth.  Quakerfriend   May-07-06 08:02 PM   #37 
  - Factinistas  Donna Zen   May-07-06 09:30 PM   #47 
  - Here Here xkenx! K & R  Dinger   May-07-06 09:49 PM   #50 
  - This is all I have to say.  incapsulated   May-08-06 12:08 AM   #62 
  - Don't forget, Charming......  FrenchieCat   May-08-06 12:59 AM   #63 
  - That's all I have to say, too  WesDem   May-08-06 08:33 AM   #68 
  - Two days ago I was at a Dem gathering  JNelson6563   May-08-06 06:49 AM   #66 
  - When the MSM ignores a good Dem. possibility,  xkenx   May-08-06 08:55 AM   #69 
  - Indeed but it was  JNelson6563   May-08-06 10:32 AM   #79 
     - Internet and on the ground campaigning are not mutually exclusive  Jai4WKC08   May-08-06 12:55 PM   #95 
        - You overlook a big demographic  JNelson6563   May-08-06 01:57 PM   #102 
           - I didn't overlook them  Jai4WKC08   May-08-06 02:54 PM   #109 
  - thank you for the advice  Donna Zen   May-08-06 09:35 AM   #70 
  - There's a difference  JNelson6563   May-08-06 10:18 AM   #73 
     - Doing my best Cary Grant impersonation...  Jai4WKC08   May-08-06 11:07 AM   #83 
     - YO, Jai.....I never had gender change surgery......Ken  xkenx   May-08-06 11:16 AM   #87 
     - Oops! Sorry, Ken  Jai4WKC08   May-08-06 12:24 PM   #93 
     - By all means then  JNelson6563   May-08-06 01:54 PM   #100 
        - No need to be insulting, or downright untruthful  Jai4WKC08   May-08-06 04:11 PM   #111 
           - Wow  JNelson6563   May-09-06 08:00 AM   #119 
              - Haha!  CarolNYC   May-09-06 08:33 AM   #120 
              - This is getting silly  Tom Rinaldo   May-09-06 09:28 AM   #121 
     - Offense?  Donna Zen   May-08-06 01:55 PM   #101 
  - It's always good advice for Democrats to be active in the Party  Tom Rinaldo   May-08-06 10:01 AM   #72 
  - Agreed  JNelson6563   May-08-06 10:28 AM   #77 
     - Your map is misleading BUT it proves your point .  Tom Rinaldo   May-08-06 11:05 AM   #81 
        - Nonsese, I said 4th Cong. District of MI  JNelson6563   May-08-06 01:48 PM   #98 
           - Now I think you are being thin skinned  Tom Rinaldo   May-08-06 02:12 PM   #105 
              - Hmm. Perhaps....  JNelson6563   May-09-06 06:11 AM   #118 
  - I'm so sorry Democrats in your area aren't well-informed  Clark2008   May-08-06 02:30 PM   #106 
  - Yesterday at my County executive committee meeting we didn't even discuss  dogman   May-08-06 04:30 PM   #112 
  - Good point. At my last district meeting  Jai4WKC08   May-08-06 06:00 PM   #114 
  - Hey, gee, here's something different....  CarolNYC   May-08-06 10:51 PM   #117 
     - Shhh, I think Julie might have given up  xkenx   May-09-06 08:34 PM   #135 
  - I don't think this country can wait until 08  mmonk   May-08-06 09:38 AM   #71 
  - Agreed  WesDem   May-09-06 09:35 AM   #122 
  - Kick for Wes. n/t  greyhound1966   May-08-06 07:15 PM   #116 
  - The Art of Electoral War  RogueTrooper   May-09-06 10:14 AM   #123 
  - You have the wrong General  Texas_Kat   May-09-06 10:39 AM   #124 
  - It was meant as an analogy  RogueTrooper   May-09-06 10:46 AM   #125 
     - I understood, and I didn't take it as a negative post.  Texas_Kat   May-09-06 11:08 AM   #127 
  - Current reality strengthens Clark's 08 hand  Tom Rinaldo   May-09-06 11:10 AM   #128 
     - I have to disagree  RogueTrooper   May-09-06 11:35 AM   #129 
        - Here is where we agree  Tom Rinaldo   May-09-06 11:56 AM   #130 
        - Who do you think the articulate Dem. candidates are?  Donna Zen   May-09-06 01:56 PM   #131 
  - Agreed 1000%  HannibalBarca   May-09-06 05:45 PM   #133 

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