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Reply #116: there you go comparing apples to oranges again [View All]

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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-28-06 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #90
116. there you go comparing apples to oranges again
I agree, to a large degree, with your first paragraph. But it is a bit of a red herring in discussions of public education policy, because it isn't the type of thing that public policy can directly solve. There are other avenues that, while not as comprehensive as a solution, can be more efficiently addressed with policy, but I do think that those attitudes you speak of would improve with a greater general commitment to public education.

As for the comparison:

First, I assume the 9000 figure is for tuition, right? Tuition, of course, is 0 for public schools, and for private schools tuition does not necessarily equal cost-per-child.

Second, of course the Walker school churns out a bumper crop of freshmen at top schools each year--they are a suburban private school with an application process--they don't accept anyone who won't turn out to be college material.

Here's another shocker: Andover Prep School produces more ivy league students than your average high school in, say, inner city Houston.

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  -I knew it! Study shows public schools perform better than private schools. milkyway  Jan-28-06 08:46 AM   #0 
  - I am from Florida and Jebbie made sure  wakeme2008   Jan-28-06 08:49 AM   #1 
  - You got that right.  The Backlash Cometh   Jan-28-06 09:12 AM   #6 
  - That is wrong  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 09:30 AM   #11 
  - Here is  wakeme2008   Jan-28-06 10:13 AM   #30 
     - I didn't mean you were wrong  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 10:21 AM   #32 
        - No problem  wakeme2008   Jan-28-06 10:24 AM   #33 
  - The ex-Catholic school mom I spoke with here in NY tried to find out  milkyway   Jan-28-06 11:14 AM   #62 
  - Math was what I was behind in when I made my escape  Warpy   Jan-28-06 08:55 AM   #2 
  - My sister moved her boys to private school  malaise   Jan-28-06 09:02 AM   #4 
     - I have two kids; both went to public schools in elementary grades  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 09:37 AM   #13 
     - Two sides to every story.  FlaGranny   Jan-28-06 09:40 AM   #15 
  - What we need is a national standard  free4now   Jan-28-06 08:57 AM   #3 
  - That is a huge debate in education right now  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 09:42 AM   #16 
  - I disagree.  LWolf   Jan-28-06 08:00 PM   #179 
     - If we are going to have nationally certified teachers  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 10:13 PM   #182 
        - This is a sticky point for me.  LWolf   Jan-29-06 09:25 AM   #190 
           - Oh that is TOO funny  proud2Blib   Jan-30-06 09:38 AM   #197 
  - Are private religious schools TRYING to hire good math teachers?  Boojatta   Jan-28-06 09:05 AM   #5 
  - I understand your point but technically they are the same thing  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 09:45 AM   #17 
  - pay does not a good math teacher make! nt  MassDemm   Jan-28-06 10:02 AM   #26 
     - Well as soon as we teachers get discounts on mortgages and groceries  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 10:25 AM   #34 
  - Pay and benefits are not competitive with public schools  rucky   Jan-28-06 09:47 AM   #19 
  - I doubled my salary  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 10:27 AM   #35 
  - Yes, catholic schools and independent schools  mirandapriestly   Jan-28-06 05:20 PM   #171 
  - I don't understand...  Dorian Gray   Jan-28-06 09:12 AM   #7 
  - in essence (and i'm NOT vouching for the methodology of this study)...  ret5hd   Jan-28-06 09:18 AM   #8 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-28-06 09:32 AM   #12 
  - You need to move beyond a personal level and look at the big picture  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 10:33 AM   #36 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-28-06 10:53 AM   #47 
     - No one here is shrugging and saying 'oh well'  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 11:02 AM   #50 
        - What is the purpose of your fairness?  hack89   Jan-28-06 01:51 PM   #140 
           - Because the playing field is not even and never will be  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 02:07 PM   #143 
              - Excellent post! n/t  countingbluecars   Jan-28-06 02:54 PM   #153 
                 - Gracias  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 02:55 PM   #154 
                 - I don't know why I didn't think of this before.  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 03:43 PM   #159 
  - Providing adjusted scores IS straight talk and honesty  fishwax   Jan-28-06 10:41 AM   #39 
  - They are probably referring to ethnic and socioeconomic groups  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 09:46 AM   #18 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-28-06 09:52 AM   #23 
     - It's not the same thing at all and I can't believe you are that obtuse  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 10:35 AM   #37 
     - You're missing the point.  Sparkly   Jan-28-06 10:44 AM   #41 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-28-06 10:51 AM   #45 
        - No -- and you're still missing the point.  Sparkly   Jan-28-06 11:12 AM   #59 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-28-06 11:20 AM   #67 
           - "As long as we treat them like objects..."  Sparkly   Jan-28-06 11:24 AM   #71 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-28-06 11:35 AM   #78 
              - It's wrongly centered if it blames schools and teachers  Sparkly   Jan-28-06 11:48 AM   #86 
           - what if we focus on other people's kids  fishwax   Jan-28-06 11:26 AM   #72 
              - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-28-06 11:50 AM   #90 
                 - Time to explain a few things  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 12:00 PM   #99 
                 - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-28-06 12:08 PM   #105 
                    - So just because we make twice what private school teachers make,  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 12:16 PM   #108 
                 - there you go comparing apples to oranges again  fishwax   Jan-28-06 12:25 PM   #116 
        - that has nothing to do with what's being discussed here  fishwax   Jan-28-06 11:20 AM   #68 
        - IN the real world you r achievement is measured from where you start  Generic Other   Jan-28-06 11:47 AM   #85 
        - One of my student's parents also works a 12 hour day 6-7 days a week  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 11:49 AM   #89 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-28-06 11:58 AM   #95 
              - You are actually comparing raising a pet to raising kids?  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 12:03 PM   #100 
              - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-28-06 12:18 PM   #111 
                 - You are the one not arguing facts  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 12:25 PM   #115 
              - sometimes people with kids lose their jobs  fishwax   Jan-28-06 12:48 PM   #127 
                 - Well that wouldn't happen if they were more RESPONSIBLE!!!  Telly Savalas   Jan-28-06 01:44 PM   #139 
                    - LOL well said, my friend, well said  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 02:18 PM   #146 
        - The only way that bank argument would work is if  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 11:17 AM   #64 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-28-06 11:22 AM   #69 
              - So now you are saying that the dollar in the inner city is worth less?  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 11:33 AM   #76 
              - the bank argument is still invalid. Here's a bank analogy that actually  fishwax   Jan-28-06 11:53 AM   #93 
                 - Good analogy!!  Sparkly   Jan-28-06 12:16 PM   #109 
                 - Great analogy  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 12:27 PM   #118 
  - It is an odd conclusion  Yupster   Jan-28-06 11:41 AM   #82 
     - Yeah don't read all the explanations posted here  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 12:29 PM   #121 
  - I Guess This is the Reason:  ribofunk   Jan-28-06 09:23 AM   #9 
  - We have Montessori schools in our public schools here  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 09:48 AM   #20 
  - Montessori schools ROCK!!  loudsue   Jan-28-06 11:10 AM   #57 
     - Yes they do  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 11:38 AM   #79 
        - Wouldn't it be wonderful if half the public schools in America were  loudsue   Jan-28-06 11:41 AM   #81 
        - Yes that would be awesome  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 11:44 AM   #83 
        - My friend has a kid in Montessori  AngryAmish   Jan-28-06 02:39 PM   #150 
           - "Only"??? LOL  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 03:54 PM   #162 
              - Another friend of mine is paying over $13k for second grade  AngryAmish   Jan-28-06 04:04 PM   #166 
                 - The highest priced private schools here  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 04:06 PM   #167 
  - Conservative Christian schools are the worst  Seagull   Jan-28-06 01:28 PM   #136 
  - Have you seen the movie 'SAVED"?  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 02:25 PM   #147 
     - that is a great movie  fishwax   Jan-28-06 04:41 PM   #170 
  - In order to have a self-discovery model in public ed,  LWolf   Jan-29-06 07:26 PM   #194 
  - Well it's about time!  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 09:26 AM   #10 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-28-06 09:38 AM   #14 
  - You bet that RW agenda is destroying public education!!  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 09:56 AM   #24 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-28-06 10:04 AM   #27 
     - You have literally no control over the agenda of the public schools  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 10:13 AM   #29 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-28-06 10:57 AM   #49 
        - So, like I said, I want to move to Beverly Hills  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 11:15 AM   #63 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-28-06 11:53 AM   #94 
              - You are arguing with yourself now  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 12:06 PM   #103 
     - schools are a resource, yes, and a resource that the right has been trying  fishwax   Jan-28-06 10:52 AM   #46 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-28-06 11:03 AM   #51 
           - so just to clarify, you think we shouldn't bother w/ public education? n/t  fishwax   Jan-28-06 11:04 AM   #52 
              - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-28-06 11:09 AM   #54 
                 - The point is that it's not entirely the schools' fault  Sparkly   Jan-28-06 11:13 AM   #61 
                 - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-28-06 11:32 AM   #75 
                    - Not necessarily  Sparkly   Jan-28-06 11:38 AM   #80 
                       - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-28-06 12:04 PM   #101 
                          - Whose "fault" is that? It's NOT the kids' fault!!  Sparkly   Jan-28-06 12:14 PM   #107 
                             - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-28-06 12:38 PM   #125 
                                - To me, your arguments on this thread  countingbluecars   Jan-28-06 12:42 PM   #126 
                                   - And we in education have certainly NEVER heard  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 02:32 PM   #148 
                 - who is accepting a failing product?  fishwax   Jan-28-06 11:22 AM   #70 
  - there is nothing wrong with an agenda of excellence  fishwax   Jan-28-06 10:48 AM   #44 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-28-06 11:13 AM   #60 
        - but the system isn't failing  fishwax   Jan-28-06 01:01 PM   #131 
  - Probably the most highly regarded public school in Chelsea is named Lab.  milkyway   Jan-28-06 11:59 AM   #96 
     - No they were both elementary schools  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 02:34 PM   #149 
  - I went to private school most of my life.  Ladyhawk   Jan-28-06 09:48 AM   #21 
  - I went all through private school too  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 10:05 AM   #28 
  - Interesting that you say the fundie school tried to disprove evolution.  milkyway   Jan-28-06 11:30 AM   #73 
     - It was quite awhile ago, but I bet the same thing goes on today.  Ladyhawk   Jan-28-06 02:09 PM   #144 
        - As an aside, my music teacher (college level) is a creationist.  Ladyhawk   Jan-28-06 07:35 PM   #176 
  - In my experience as an elementary teacher,  countingbluecars   Jan-28-06 09:50 AM   #22 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-28-06 09:58 AM   #25 
     - The politicians are indeed responsible  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 10:19 AM   #31 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-28-06 10:47 AM   #42 
        - Great!! I want to live in Beverly Hills.  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 10:56 AM   #48 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-28-06 11:07 AM   #53 
              - This is a progressive website  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 11:12 AM   #58 
                 - Ritalin argument is a red flag to teachers?  thinkingwoman   Jan-28-06 11:18 AM   #65 
                    - Yes it is a red flag  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 11:31 AM   #74 
                       - Yet there are too many boys  Yupster   Jan-28-06 11:49 AM   #88 
                       - And you are basing that conclusion on which longitudinal study?  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 11:51 AM   #92 
                       - Just the study of my Little League team I coached  Yupster   Jan-28-06 01:38 PM   #137 
                          - That is what they call anecdotal experience  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 01:56 PM   #142 
                       - Oh how I agree with you on this.  TriMetFan   Jan-28-06 01:13 PM   #133 
                       - just because something is illegal  thinkingwoman   Jan-28-06 12:00 PM   #98 
                          - So sue her  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 12:05 PM   #102 
                             - It's been 8 years  thinkingwoman   Jan-28-06 12:08 PM   #104 
                             - So you are going to allow her to continue to do this to other families?  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 12:18 PM   #110 
                                - oh for crying out loud  thinkingwoman   Jan-28-06 12:20 PM   #112 
                                   - I wil say it again - teachers cannot diagnose medical conditions  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 12:32 PM   #123 
                                      - self-deleted  thinkingwoman   Jan-28-06 07:09 PM   #173 
                                      - If it hadn't happened  thinkingwoman   Jan-28-06 07:24 PM   #174 
                                         - And as I stated earlier,  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 10:04 PM   #181 
                                            - yes shame on me  thinkingwoman   Jan-28-06 10:20 PM   #184 
                                               - The real victim here is public education  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 10:36 PM   #186 
                             - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-28-06 12:23 PM   #114 
     - I was stating my observations  countingbluecars   Jan-28-06 10:47 AM   #43 
     - I've read your posts throughout this thread, and I think you're missing  milkyway   Jan-28-06 11:10 AM   #56 
        - Thanks for This Info (nt)  stepnw1f   Jan-28-06 12:26 PM   #117 
        - thanks for the welcome  bricktop   Jan-28-06 12:29 PM   #120 
           - Yeah Surrre... Whatever this means  stepnw1f   Jan-28-06 12:54 PM   #128 
  - "the new study used advanced statistical techniques"  thinkingwoman   Jan-28-06 10:35 AM   #38 
  - The Dept of Education STRONGLY SUPPORTS private schools, vouchers  Proud2BAmurkin   Jan-28-06 11:09 AM   #55 
  - no kidding  thinkingwoman   Jan-28-06 11:19 AM   #66 
  - No It Does Not Say It All  stepnw1f   Jan-28-06 12:28 PM   #119 
  - Well said.  Balbus   Jan-28-06 12:35 PM   #124 
  - Guvmint bad.  Telly Savalas   Jan-28-06 01:56 PM   #141 
     - LOL  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 04:00 PM   #163 
     - Golly gosh gee it's sooooo funny  thinkingwoman   Jan-28-06 07:38 PM   #178 
        - You can either laugh or cry  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 09:47 PM   #180 
     - You trust BushCo's gov't?  thinkingwoman   Jan-28-06 07:37 PM   #177 
  - My kids go to Catholic School here in Portland OR. for one reason....  TriMetFan   Jan-28-06 10:42 AM   #40 
  - I did not mean to imply that by my own anecdotal experience in our  milkyway   Jan-28-06 11:51 AM   #91 
     - But you see I think the study is a bit wrong.  TriMetFan   Jan-28-06 01:02 PM   #132 
        - I've never thought of Catholic schools as rich kids' schools. Here in NYC,  milkyway   Jan-28-06 01:18 PM   #134 
           - But again I think this study is wrong.  TriMetFan   Jan-28-06 01:42 PM   #138 
              - So just because you say the public schools in your area suck,  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 02:44 PM   #151 
                 - Hey proud2blib I never said that! But milkyways post did go after  TriMetFan   Jan-28-06 03:08 PM   #156 
                    - Yeah I understand  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 03:15 PM   #158 
                       - Well Thank You for being a Teacher.  TriMetFan   Jan-28-06 03:44 PM   #160 
                          - My eldest son went to an awesome Catholic high school  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 03:51 PM   #161 
                             - There you go. But I( bet you also had a lot to do with how your kid turned  TriMetFan   Jan-28-06 04:06 PM   #168 
  - New England has the best public schools in the Country.  AX10   Jan-28-06 11:33 AM   #77 
  - I don't know if that's true, but they worked for me.  Gormy Cuss   Jan-28-06 04:02 PM   #164 
     - On average, I think it is true  NewJeffCT   Jan-29-06 08:23 AM   #188 
        - I think it's because of a deep commitment to literacy from colonial days.  Gormy Cuss   Jan-29-06 11:37 AM   #192 
           - Even in super-rich towns  NewJeffCT   Jan-29-06 03:00 PM   #193 
  - My kid attended private schools (non religious) until this year  Carni   Jan-28-06 11:45 AM   #84 
  - i knew it too. i have done both with kids. yup  seabeyond   Jan-28-06 11:48 AM   #87 
  - I went to a private elementary school-but it was quite liberal  Lorien   Jan-28-06 11:59 AM   #97 
  - what an outrageously prejudiced thing to say...  Rich Hunt   Jan-28-06 12:14 PM   #106 
  - Oh BooHooHoo.... Give Us All a Break  stepnw1f   Jan-28-06 12:31 PM   #122 
  - You're right, it's a very subjective statement based on my own experience  milkyway   Jan-28-06 12:59 PM   #130 
  - I agree with you up to the point of leaving DU.  TriMetFan   Jan-28-06 01:25 PM   #135 
  - but the discovery of the study would be that it's not "their best shot"  Baconfoot   Jan-28-06 03:01 PM   #155 
  - Another Right Wing Myth Goes BOOOOP!  stepnw1f   Jan-28-06 12:22 PM   #113 
  - The very same sociological phenomenon...  misanthrope   Jan-28-06 12:56 PM   #129 
  - Two signs we looked for  knitter4democracy   Jan-28-06 02:14 PM   #145 
  - Algebra is part of our elementary curriculum  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 02:49 PM   #152 
  - I'd like to hear some about that battle. SW MO could use some  NoFederales   Jan-28-06 05:57 PM   #172 
  - The state of Missouri has brand new standards  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 10:19 PM   #183 
     - No, I want the research studies: not the latest, greatest from DESE--what  NoFederales   Jan-29-06 07:59 AM   #187 
     - Links to the research, please?  NoFederales   Jan-30-06 09:28 AM   #195 
     - Links to the research, please.  NoFederales   Jan-30-06 11:27 AM   #198 
  - Yeah!  knitter4democracy   Jan-28-06 07:27 PM   #175 
     - I think they have changed the title from 'Algebra'  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 10:24 PM   #185 
        - That's odd.  knitter4democracy   Jan-29-06 09:28 AM   #191 
  - Our public school starts algebra in the early middle school years  bleedingheart   Jan-30-06 09:31 AM   #196 
  - George W. Bush is a product of the best private schools in America.  aquart   Jan-28-06 03:10 PM   #157 
  - LOL in all long threads like this, there is always one post  proud2Blib   Jan-28-06 04:03 PM   #165 
  - They don't teach about flying monkeys and talking snakes  springsteen4senate   Jan-28-06 04:07 PM   #169 
  - Everyone's experience is different;  greiner3   Jan-29-06 08:27 AM   #189 
 

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