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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #95
96. Pernicious?
I think you are reading a bit too much into my post. As a moderator you are free to delete my post if you feel it was a personal attack. I don't think any fair minded third party would read it that way. It certainly wasn't intended that way.

Why is being against a restriction of the First Amendment such a hot button item on this board?
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  -Hillary Clinton making Flag Burning a CRIME ! radio4progressives  Dec-05-05 04:03 PM   #0 
  - co-sponsered with Bennett of Utah!  Leilani   Dec-05-05 04:05 PM   #1 
  - This is the new definition of "craven"  Phoebe Loosinhouse   Dec-05-05 07:54 PM   #103 
     - She has no "right wing credentials"  enough already   Dec-06-05 07:24 AM   #138 
     - You are so right about everything!  amandabeech   Dec-06-05 05:14 PM   #166 
  - Do you mean she is supporting a Const. Amendment?  Deep13   Dec-05-05 04:07 PM   #2 
  - no, she is doing this in lieu of the Amendment  northzax   Dec-05-05 04:09 PM   #5 
  - Exactly - in lieu of the Amendment. And changable and Court reviewable  papau   Dec-05-05 04:13 PM   #12 
  - Those are ALREADY crimes ...  chicagiana   Dec-05-05 06:39 PM   #73 
  - Direct violation of 1st amendment.  Warren Stupidity   Dec-05-05 08:14 PM   #106 
     - I agree and expect a Court to reject -but Courts can not reject Amendments  papau   Dec-05-05 08:36 PM   #115 
        - Supporting odious legislation is not smart.  Warren Stupidity   Dec-05-05 08:43 PM   #117 
  - If the amendment was in danger of passing ...  Deep13   Dec-05-05 04:14 PM   #13 
  - A law will be struck down by the court.  Zynx   Dec-05-05 04:40 PM   #26 
     - I hope you're right.. and if this law is challenged, and Free Speech wins  radio4progressives   Dec-05-05 04:51 PM   #31 
        - DING DING DING  iconoclastNYC   Dec-05-05 05:17 PM   #41 
           - LOL...the DLC as a secret arm of the repub party  formernaderite   Dec-05-05 09:32 PM   #123 
  - It's apparently a bill not an amendment but still a fascists law.  radio4progressives   Dec-05-05 04:13 PM   #11 
  - They're for stirring up the rubes ...  chicagiana   Dec-05-05 06:38 PM   #72 
  - I must be in a complete vacuumn because I haven't been hearing about  itzamirakul   Dec-06-05 07:30 AM   #139 
  - You're not in a vacuum  tavalon   Dec-06-05 10:46 AM   #155 
  - You too!  tavalon   Dec-06-05 10:39 AM   #152 
  - this move did me in on hillary  mexicoxpat   Dec-05-05 04:07 PM   #3 
  - now to be perfectly fair  northzax   Dec-05-05 04:08 PM   #4 
  - The correct response ...  chicagiana   Dec-05-05 06:42 PM   #74 
     - I'm not sure I would go that far  tavalon   Dec-06-05 10:45 AM   #154 
  - In which Party is she going to run for President?  leveymg   Dec-05-05 04:10 PM   #6 
  - Not OUR Party!  leftstreet   Dec-05-05 04:21 PM   #20 
     - I think they've already stolen it....  formernaderite   Dec-05-05 09:34 PM   #124 
     - just a thought on "labor"  paulk   Dec-06-05 06:43 PM   #172 
  - Is flag burning really a problem in the US?  grateful581   Dec-05-05 04:10 PM   #7 
  - Oh yeah, it's everywhere.  Deep13   Dec-05-05 04:15 PM   #15 
     - like yer sig Deep13!!! (nt)  app_farmer_rb   Dec-05-05 05:00 PM   #34 
     - Found this the other day.  Johnny Noshoes   Dec-05-05 05:47 PM   #50 
     - LOL  tavalon   Dec-06-05 10:47 AM   #156 
  - Unreal  gulfcoastliberal   Dec-05-05 04:12 PM   #8 
  - ditto to that  Deep13   Dec-05-05 04:20 PM   #19 
  - Why do you want to see our flag burned? Specific instances only covered.  AZBlue   Dec-05-05 04:12 PM   #9 
  - it's not about what i want to see, it's about the principle of free speech  radio4progressives   Dec-05-05 04:14 PM   #14 
  - Under that logic you should be able to kill a public official if you don't  AZBlue   Dec-05-05 04:26 PM   #21 
     - Excuse me? Flag Burning isn't Destroying other Peoples Property or Killing  radio4progressives   Dec-05-05 04:42 PM   #28 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Dec-05-05 05:02 PM   #36 
  - Actually, the first two are probably banned under state law.  Deep13   Dec-05-05 04:18 PM   #18 
  - For one thing, all of Washington DC is "federal Property"  WannaJumpMyScooter   Dec-05-05 04:35 PM   #22 
  - Um, no it's not.  AZBlue   Dec-05-05 04:49 PM   #29 
     - Sadly, yes, Washington District of Columbia is  WannaJumpMyScooter   Dec-05-05 05:46 PM   #49 
  - Worth noting  MrBenchley   Dec-05-05 04:37 PM   #24 
  - It is symbolic political speech which is protected WITHOUT exception.  Zynx   Dec-05-05 04:41 PM   #27 
  - That's just your definition of it.  AZBlue   Dec-05-05 04:50 PM   #30 
     - That's the Supreme Court's definition of it.  Zynx   Dec-05-05 07:34 PM   #93 
  - easy  Realityhack   Dec-05-05 05:55 PM   #55 
  - It's a non-issue. It's a non-existent issue put out by propagandists  leesa   Dec-06-05 06:54 AM   #136 
  - Intimindating someone by burning the flag  olafvikingr   Dec-06-05 11:45 AM   #157 
  - Will Kucinich back it?  spaniard   Dec-05-05 04:12 PM   #10 
  - hmm. Good question.  wyldwolf   Dec-05-05 04:17 PM   #16 
  - LAME QUESTION n/t  radio4progressives   Dec-05-05 04:18 PM   #17 
     - Why? He supported a constitutional amendment banning it.  wyldwolf   Dec-05-05 04:57 PM   #32 
        - If true, that would be a stunning departure from his progressive positions  radio4progressives   Dec-05-05 05:01 PM   #35 
           - 'tis true. And it is widely known  wyldwolf   Dec-05-05 05:03 PM   #37 
           - Actually, he flip-flopped.  bornskeptic   Dec-05-05 05:39 PM   #46 
              - like his stance on a woman's right to choose?  spaniard   Dec-05-05 05:42 PM   #48 
              - LOL! Wonder what made the difference?  radio4progressives   Dec-05-05 05:51 PM   #52 
              - Sherrod Brown did the same...  Idioteque   Dec-05-05 09:29 PM   #122 
           - He did...and he was anti-choice at one point as well...  SaveElmer   Dec-05-05 05:59 PM   #58 
  - The crime will be if Hillary gets the nomination. n/t  Imalittleteapot   Dec-05-05 04:37 PM   #23 
  - Well said  election_2004   Dec-07-05 11:39 AM   #181 
  - To hell with her. I knew she would do something crass and rightwing  Zynx   Dec-05-05 04:39 PM   #25 
  - This cinches it for me  Einstein99   Dec-05-05 04:58 PM   #33 
  - Hey! Dennis Kucinich and Wes Clark support a constitutional amendment...  wyldwolf   Dec-05-05 05:05 PM   #38 
  - Here's an important difference for me  Tom Rinaldo   Dec-05-05 05:25 PM   #43 
  - It may be an opinion, but it's also a justification  wyldwolf   Dec-05-05 05:39 PM   #47 
  - Justification for an opinion about Hillary?  Tom Rinaldo   Dec-05-05 05:50 PM   #51 
  - It probably is...and is a smart move...  SaveElmer   Dec-05-05 06:01 PM   #62 
  - Hmmm  Tom Rinaldo   Dec-05-05 06:15 PM   #65 
  - It is meaningless...  SaveElmer   Dec-05-05 06:19 PM   #66 
     - I know Hillary is perceived as being a Liberal by the general public  Tom Rinaldo   Dec-05-05 07:19 PM   #88 
     - Hillary does have a liberal record...  SaveElmer   Dec-05-05 07:29 PM   #91 
     - You guys are amazing....  formernaderite   Dec-05-05 09:39 PM   #125 
        - Don't forget Money is more important than people.  purji   Dec-06-05 09:20 AM   #142 
  - Great lets support lots of odious fascist laws  Warren Stupidity   Dec-05-05 08:17 PM   #109 
  - In the case of Kucinich--  eridani   Dec-05-05 09:17 PM   #121 
     - Interesting about Kucinich's brother lobbying for banning flag burning  radio4progressives   Dec-06-05 06:21 PM   #168 
        - "Lobbying" might not be the right word--  eridani   Dec-06-05 08:41 PM   #174 
  - Well there is a strategic issue on this ...  chicagiana   Dec-05-05 06:49 PM   #78 
  - Don't know about Clark  eridani   Dec-05-05 09:14 PM   #120 
     - Clark does not support American Flag burning  wiley   Dec-06-05 06:04 PM   #167 
  - How many flags have you burned lately?  SoCalDemocrat   Dec-05-05 05:07 PM   #39 
  - When was the last time you were tortured?  iconoclastNYC   Dec-05-05 05:53 PM   #54 
  - Hillary makes FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION a Crime  iconoclastNYC   Dec-05-05 05:14 PM   #40 
  - As President, Hillary will keep Bush's First Amendment zones  IndianaGreen   Dec-05-05 05:31 PM   #44 
  - hmm.. Howard Dean as well... bit murky, though...  wyldwolf   Dec-05-05 05:24 PM   #42 
  - One would think she'd know that she first has to win the primaries  question everything   Dec-05-05 05:31 PM   #45 
  - Maybe she saw what  iconoclastNYC   Dec-05-05 05:55 PM   #56 
  - She has sold out well in advance, a sign that...  Voltaire99   Dec-05-05 06:28 PM   #69 
     - Always remember. At this time last round, Lieberman  question everything   Dec-05-05 07:19 PM   #87 
  - Why burn the flag when you can burn the Constitution instead?  stickdog   Dec-05-05 05:52 PM   #53 
  - Honestly if she is our nominie I may have to boycot the ellection.  Realityhack   Dec-05-05 05:55 PM   #57 
  - Yeah I think you might be right.  iconoclastNYC   Dec-05-05 06:00 PM   #59 
     - still dragging that moldy old pile of horseshit around?  paulk   Dec-06-05 06:52 PM   #173 
        - Yeah horseshit. There was no coordinated "anti-Dean" campaign  iconoclastNYC   Dec-07-05 10:03 AM   #179 
           - eighteen percent in Iowa  paulk   Dec-07-05 11:33 AM   #180 
              - SO mean spirited you are.  iconoclastNYC   Dec-07-05 01:52 PM   #182 
                 - is that the best you can do?  paulk   Dec-07-05 08:32 PM   #183 
  - before everyone gets all in a lather about this, consider the following  onenote   Dec-05-05 06:00 PM   #60 
  - There's a BIG difference between Conrad/Byrd's actions and Clinton's  Minnesota Raindog   Dec-06-05 09:27 AM   #147 
  - It Is A Non-Issue, Ma'am  The Magistrate   Dec-05-05 06:01 PM   #61 
  - Right on point...smart political move...  SaveElmer   Dec-05-05 06:11 PM   #64 
  - If this issue is so trivial, why are flag burning cases constantly brought  radio4progressives   Dec-05-05 06:31 PM   #71 
  - Haven't you gotten the memo?  Jacobin   Dec-05-05 06:44 PM   #76 
  - As A Matter Of Curiousity, Sir  The Magistrate   Dec-05-05 06:49 PM   #79 
     - You and I have both been here too long for your question  Jacobin   Dec-05-05 07:19 PM   #89 
        - Still, Sir  The Magistrate   Dec-05-05 07:35 PM   #95 
           - Pernicious?  Jacobin   Dec-05-05 07:38 PM   #96 
  - Everyone Needs A Break From Serious Matters, Ma'am  The Magistrate   Dec-05-05 06:47 PM   #77 
  - To you and others that agree with you, but a flag burning case was just  radio4progressives   Dec-05-05 07:50 PM   #98 
     - It was held to be unconstitutional in the 1980's. See below  Jacobin   Dec-05-05 07:55 PM   #104 
     - Thanks I read this with great interest, why does the issue keep coming  radio4progressives   Dec-05-05 08:48 PM   #118 
     - what case -- I've searched and see no sign of a recent SCOTUS flag case  onenote   Dec-06-05 10:22 AM   #151 
        - sorry, i wasn't paying too close attention. it was broadcasting on C-Span  radio4progressives   Dec-06-05 06:25 PM   #171 
           - it must've been a very old audio  onenote   Dec-06-05 11:04 PM   #176 
  - Constantly? I'd like to see some evidence  onenote   Dec-06-05 10:15 AM   #150 
  - You would have to admit though  Jacobin   Dec-05-05 06:42 PM   #75 
     - Certainly They Do, Sir  The Magistrate   Dec-05-05 06:53 PM   #80 
        - I question the idea that  Jacobin   Dec-05-05 07:22 PM   #90 
        - There Is Something To That, Sir  The Magistrate   Dec-05-05 07:32 PM   #92 
           - I see your point. I simply disagree that monkeying with the  Jacobin   Dec-05-05 07:41 PM   #97 
        - This, No matter of real importance, SIR?  radio4progressives   Dec-05-05 07:53 PM   #101 
  - Why burn the flag when you can burn the Constitution instead? (nt)  stickdog   Dec-05-05 06:11 PM   #63 
  - LOL. Perfect response  Jacobin   Dec-05-05 07:51 PM   #99 
  - Good one!  IndyOp   Dec-06-05 09:44 AM   #148 
  - There's a cancer on the party, and its name is Hillary.  Voltaire99   Dec-05-05 06:19 PM   #67 
  - How fucking annoying  killbotfactory   Dec-05-05 06:21 PM   #68 
  - More mush-mouth ...  chicagiana   Dec-05-05 06:30 PM   #70 
  - Wesley Clark support amendment to ban flag-burning...  SaveElmer   Dec-05-05 07:01 PM   #81 
  - We are having this conversation up thread, about context  Tom Rinaldo   Dec-05-05 07:35 PM   #94 
     - Yes, Clark does support a Constitutional amdmt to ban flag burning  ultraist   Dec-05-05 09:09 PM   #119 
  - Howard Dean supports law protecting the flag...  SaveElmer   Dec-05-05 07:02 PM   #82 
  - Howard Dean is worng for doing so. nt.  Warren Stupidity   Dec-05-05 08:19 PM   #111 
  - Dennis Kucinich supports an amendment banning flag burning...  SaveElmer   Dec-05-05 07:05 PM   #83 
  - Dennis Kucinich is wrong for doing so. nt.  Warren Stupidity   Dec-05-05 08:19 PM   #112 
  - He voted in favor before he voted against it. look up the thread...  radio4progressives   Dec-05-05 08:20 PM   #113 
     - So that would make him a ....  SaveElmer   Dec-05-05 08:23 PM   #114 
        - dunno why he flip flopped - it would make an interesting question in the  radio4progressives   Dec-05-05 10:40 PM   #126 
           - Do you know Kucinich isn't making another run?  SaveElmer   Dec-05-05 11:28 PM   #129 
              - Political Strategies  radio4progressives   Dec-06-05 12:54 AM   #130 
                 - The line has been drawn...  SaveElmer   Dec-06-05 01:25 AM   #133 
                    - You make an important. It appears I may have over reacted.  radio4progressives   Dec-06-05 01:37 AM   #134 
  - Mark Dayton Supports constitutional amendment banning flag burning...  SaveElmer   Dec-05-05 07:11 PM   #84 
  - So what? They are WRONG! Dismanteling the First Amendment is NOT  radio4progressives   Dec-05-05 08:18 PM   #110 
  - Tom Lantos supports amendment banning flag burning...  SaveElmer   Dec-05-05 07:15 PM   #85 
  - Lantos is a reactionary - he doesn't understand the Bill of Rights  radio4progressives   Dec-05-05 08:14 PM   #107 
  - Hillary Clinton opposes amendment banning flag burning...  SaveElmer   Dec-05-05 07:16 PM   #86 
  - Okay. Now she's not being honest  Jacobin   Dec-05-05 07:54 PM   #102 
     - Yeah not the point...  SaveElmer   Dec-05-05 08:07 PM   #105 
     - I'm stunned that the 1st Amendment is considered as "Meaningless".  radio4progressives   Dec-05-05 08:16 PM   #108 
     - She is stopping an amendment from passing - and this is dishonest?  papau   Dec-05-05 08:38 PM   #116 
        - Yes.  Warren Stupidity   Dec-05-05 10:44 PM   #128 
  - I loved Jon Stewart's take on this last time  Hippo_Tron   Dec-05-05 07:51 PM   #100 
  - AMEN! (n/t)  Che_Nuevara   Dec-06-05 08:06 AM   #141 
  - Buh bye Hillary...  zulchzulu   Dec-05-05 10:44 PM   #127 
  - This kind of politicking can only ruin the party  Blasphemer   Dec-06-05 01:05 AM   #131 
  - Wow, what a hardass.  d_b   Dec-06-05 01:16 AM   #132 
  - lol!  hiley   Dec-06-05 06:22 PM   #169 
  - now she's gone too far  Neil Lisst   Dec-06-05 06:00 AM   #135 
  - I like Hillary but I see no upside for her doing this  CTyankee   Dec-06-05 07:07 AM   #137 
  - Defend that move? Why would anyone defend U.S. Flag burning?  win_in_06   Dec-06-05 08:04 AM   #140 
  - because it's an expression of free speech protected  jonnyblitz   Dec-06-05 09:23 AM   #145 
  - No, I wasn't. I can't imagine why you would want to defend flag burning  win_in_06   Dec-06-05 12:23 PM   #158 
     - I expect our leader to defend free speech, not to pander  jonnyblitz   Dec-07-05 12:43 AM   #178 
  - If you don't already intuit the answer to that question, then there's some  radio4progressives   Dec-06-05 02:09 PM   #163 
  - Recommended. It disturbs me that Hillary Clinton or any other  Benhurst   Dec-06-05 09:23 AM   #143 
  - God, I hate that corporate witch. n/t  fudge stripe cookays   Dec-06-05 09:23 AM   #144 
  - At least she is taking a stand on this vitally important issue  klook   Dec-06-05 09:26 AM   #146 
  - triangulation  realpolitik   Dec-06-05 09:58 AM   #149 
  - it's so "Dick Morris". nt  jonnyblitz   Dec-06-05 01:14 PM   #162 
  - Bad move, Hillary. Bad move.  The Backlash Cometh   Dec-06-05 10:44 AM   #153 
  - the repubs play political games all the time, why shouldnt' we fight fire  onenote   Dec-06-05 12:48 PM   #159 
  - Hillary's a TOTAL rethug-it's been obvious for a while now.  TheGoldenRule   Dec-06-05 01:13 PM   #160 
  - exactly  hiley   Dec-06-05 06:24 PM   #170 
  - But *YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BURN* the American flag - American tradition says  Mabus   Dec-06-05 01:13 PM   #161 
  - She is really reminding me of Bill's days, when he kept stealing  Nimrod2005   Dec-06-05 02:14 PM   #164 
  - And there go more of our rights. Shall we Goose Step Comrad?  Selteri   Dec-06-05 04:30 PM   #165 
  - If she wants to improve her image, why does she keep being an asshole?  nicknameless   Dec-06-05 09:36 PM   #175 
  - I have never burned a flag, nor have I ever felt the urge to do so.  tblue37   Dec-07-05 12:26 AM   #177 
  - I think it's a strategy to avert something worse  jrd200x   Dec-07-05 09:54 PM   #184 
  - At least she HAS a position, unlike some of the other Dems including Kerry  mtnsnake   Dec-07-05 10:19 PM   #185 
 

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