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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
Hoosier Democrat Donating Member (386 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-04 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Need to correct you, there:
Adlai Stevenson, the Dem nominee in 1952 and 1956 was NOT a Senator. He was the Governor of Illinois in 1952.

It was his son, Adlai III, who served as a US Senator from Illinois later on.
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  -When was the last time an insider defeated an incumbent president? Walt Starr  Jan-29-04 01:04 PM   #0 
  - Clinton, in 1992  sangh0   Jan-29-04 01:05 PM   #1 
  - Nope, not an insider  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 01:06 PM   #3 
  - He was the former chairman of the DLC  Freddie Stubbs   Jan-29-04 01:12 PM   #11 
  - Insiders are inside the beltway  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 01:13 PM   #12 
     - Whatever you say, Walt  sangh0   Jan-29-04 01:18 PM   #16 
     - I'm just going off the definition of "insider" from the Lessig blog  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 01:25 PM   #24 
        - By that definition, Kucinich is an "insider"  Freddie Stubbs   Jan-29-04 01:36 PM   #43 
           - Yep, he sure is  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 01:40 PM   #50 
              - And Bush* is an outsider  sangh0   Jan-29-04 01:43 PM   #54 
                 - *WAS* an outsider  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 01:50 PM   #60 
                    - "a sitting Congressman or Senator" - Your words  sangh0   Jan-29-04 02:00 PM   #66 
                       - How the heck does a sitting president defeat an incumbent president?  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 02:18 PM   #70 
                          - "a sitting Congressman or Senator" - Your words  sangh0   Jan-29-04 02:20 PM   #71 
                             - Sangh0, really, this has absolutely nothing to do with the question  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 02:26 PM   #75 
                                - Yes it does  sangh0   Jan-29-04 02:27 PM   #77 
                                   - You will see that this was for the purposes of the discussion in the  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 02:33 PM   #81 
                                      - A definition that only works in such a limited conditions is not valid  sangh0   Jan-29-04 02:35 PM   #82 
                                         - Then answer the question, sangh0  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 02:38 PM   #83 
                                            - Why should I?  sangh0   Jan-29-04 02:42 PM   #85 
                                            - The point is very blunt and extremely valid, Sangh0  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 02:46 PM   #88 
                                            - The point is ridiculous  sangh0   Jan-29-04 02:55 PM   #91 
                                            - BUSH WAS AN OUTSIDER  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 03:00 PM   #93 
                                            - Bush* was a BFEE/PNAC/KenLay/PatRobertson/Delay/Lott  sangh0   Jan-29-04 03:02 PM   #95 
                                            - Yeah, but you're convincing me maybe I should  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 03:03 PM   #97 
                                            - Wait a minute. You're going to vote against Kerry in the general election  library_max   Jan-29-04 04:44 PM   #118 
     - DLC chair in 1992 was as inside as it got, imho.  mb7588a   Jan-29-04 01:19 PM   #18 
     - Read the beginning post  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 01:26 PM   #27 
        - Show me an instance where a former Governor of a small state  Freddie Stubbs   Jan-29-04 01:39 PM   #49 
           - Bill Clinton, 1992  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 01:41 PM   #52 
              - He was a current Governor, not a former Governor  Freddie Stubbs   Jan-29-04 01:56 PM   #63 
              - Actually, for the purposes of this question,  leyton   Jan-29-04 04:54 PM   #123 
     - you think poopy was not an insider?  bearfartinthewoods   Jan-29-04 01:25 PM   #25 
     - Who is "poopy"?  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 01:29 PM   #34 
        - Poppy Bush - GHW Bush  sangh0   Jan-29-04 01:44 PM   #55 
        - sorry typo....poopy/poppy....works for me.....GHWbush  bearfartinthewoods   Jan-29-04 03:02 PM   #94 
           - Poppy never ran against an incumbent  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 04:17 PM   #109 
     - A few points:  jsw_81   Jan-29-04 01:37 PM   #44 
  - Governors not Washington insiders. A joke, right?  John_H   Jan-29-04 01:31 PM   #37 
  - Definition of insider from the Lessig blog  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 01:33 PM   #40 
     - No. And I couldn't name a sitting Governor to beat an incumbent  John_H   Jan-29-04 01:47 PM   #58 
        - A General would stand a chance, absolutely!  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 01:51 PM   #61 
           - Carter? Don't think so. Maybe. Can we call Ford an incumbent? Seriously,  John_H   Jan-29-04 01:56 PM   #64 
              - ABSOLUTELY!!!!  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 01:58 PM   #65 
  - Oh, I get it. YOU define what an "insider" is...  wyldwolf   Jan-29-04 04:11 PM   #106 
     - Not me  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 04:16 PM   #107 
  - Clinton was a governor, not an establishment insider  Capn Sunshine   Jan-29-04 01:06 PM   #4 
  - Hell, I'll even accept an inside the beltway 2 year pol  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 01:07 PM   #6 
  - Yep. And I'll bet Clinton's rooting for Kerry too.  NewYorkerfromMass   Jan-29-04 01:38 PM   #46 
  - add " 21st century Bob Dole"  Capn Sunshine   Jan-29-04 01:05 PM   #2 
  - Hehehe...  robsul82   Jan-29-04 01:07 PM   #5 
     - If Kerry defeats Bush, it would indeed be historical  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 01:11 PM   #9 
  - ?  codegreen   Jan-29-04 01:10 PM   #7 
  - It's NEVER happened  Hoosier Democrat   Jan-29-04 01:11 PM   #8 
  - Add to that the fact that JFK, a sitting Senator  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 01:12 PM   #10 
     - Need to correct you, there:  Hoosier Democrat   Jan-29-04 01:16 PM   #13 
        - Ahhhh, thanks  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 01:18 PM   #14 
        - Yes, Stevenson was "an outsider" in the same sense as Clinton  Lydia Leftcoast   Jan-29-04 01:19 PM   #17 
        - You forgot Carter  jobycom   Jan-29-04 01:24 PM   #23 
        - Who cares?  IowaBiker   Jan-29-04 03:10 PM   #98 
           - The insider/outsider issue is directly linked to the "electable" issue  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 03:13 PM   #99 
           - 39% of them in two states, anyway.  PAMod   Jan-29-04 04:32 PM   #114 
              - Even smaller percentage than that  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 04:35 PM   #115 
  - Name me on candidate named Bush who has ever won reelection?  jobycom   Jan-29-04 01:18 PM   #15 
  - All I'm asking for is the name of a single  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 01:31 PM   #36 
     - So is your question  jobycom   Jan-29-04 01:53 PM   #62 
  - Here's one  jsw_81   Jan-29-04 01:20 PM   #19 
  - Harrison was not a sitting Senator  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 01:23 PM   #22 
  - He had been a senator only a few months before  jsw_81   Jan-29-04 01:39 PM   #48 
  - Bush is the sitting president of the United States  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 01:29 PM   #32 
     - No, Bush is the lying president of the United States.  library_max   Jan-29-04 04:16 PM   #108 
        - ROFLMAO!  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 04:18 PM   #110 
  - Every 40+ years, a Senator is elected president. Did you know that?  blm   Jan-29-04 01:21 PM   #20 
  - Only Two Sitting Senators Have EVER Been Elected President.  JaneQPublic   Jan-29-04 01:40 PM   #51 
     - And neither ran against an incumbent  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 01:42 PM   #53 
     - Both presidents from Vermont were miserable failures  jsw_81   Jan-29-04 01:46 PM   #57 
        - would you care to name the presidents who were from Vermont?  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 01:49 PM   #59 
           - Arthur and Coolidge  jsw_81   Jan-29-04 02:03 PM   #67 
              - LOL!  sangh0   Jan-29-04 02:16 PM   #69 
              - Laugh away, under his criteria Dean is a New Yorker  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 02:25 PM   #74 
              - Ahhhhhh, then under your criteria, Howard Dean is a New Yorker.  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 02:24 PM   #73 
                 - And how many NY outsiders have won the Presidency  sangh0   Jan-29-04 02:26 PM   #76 
                    - Franklin Delano Roosevelt was the last to have that honor  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 02:28 PM   #78 
                       - FDR was NOT an outsider  sangh0   Jan-29-04 02:43 PM   #86 
                          - FDR WAS an outsider  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 02:52 PM   #89 
                             - Assistant Secretary of the Navy  sangh0   Jan-29-04 02:56 PM   #92 
                                - Did he hold that office when he ran?  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 03:02 PM   #96 
                                   - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-29-04 03:15 PM   #100 
                                      - No, I'm not  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 04:00 PM   #105 
                                         - Name one DU insider (besides yourself)  sangh0   Jan-29-04 04:19 PM   #111 
                                            - There are three DU insiders  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 04:41 PM   #117 
                                               - Way to dodge the question. /nt  library_max   Jan-29-04 04:47 PM   #120 
     - Both of them died in office. /nt  library_max   Jan-29-04 04:25 PM   #113 
  - Just proves Dean - a Governor not an insider - could win the election and  auntpattywatty   Jan-29-04 01:22 PM   #21 
  - Oh yeah, name the last time an unemployed doctor beat an incumbent  jobycom   Jan-29-04 01:26 PM   #29 
     - Name outsiders who had served as governors to defeat an incumbent  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 01:32 PM   #38 
        - See my post #44  jsw_81   Jan-29-04 02:21 PM   #72 
           - You are correct about outsiders losing to incumbents  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 02:30 PM   #80 
  - Bad examples  DemPopulist   Jan-29-04 01:26 PM   #26 
  - You are correct about Stevenson  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 01:35 PM   #41 
  - Depends on definition of insider.  TexasSissy   Jan-29-04 01:26 PM   #28 
  - Read the initial post  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 01:35 PM   #42 
  - Who was the last outsider to win the Presidency? Washington.  John_H   Jan-29-04 01:27 PM   #30 
  - Read the initial post  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 01:37 PM   #45 
  - That was then. this is now.  bigtree   Jan-29-04 01:27 PM   #31 
  - In 1960, the pundits asked this:  leyton   Jan-29-04 02:40 PM   #84 
  - So?  Toby109   Jan-29-04 01:29 PM   #33 
  - 1800: Vice President Thomas Jefferson  NoPasaran   Jan-29-04 01:31 PM   #35 
  - Not a sitting Congressman or Senator  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 01:39 PM   #47 
     - Actually, Jefferson *was* a Senator.  leyton   Jan-29-04 05:20 PM   #126 
  - Here's a serious answer as to why that doesn't matter  jobycom   Jan-29-04 01:33 PM   #39 
  - Here's a serious rebuttal as to why this matters greatly  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 01:45 PM   #56 
     - That's weird, you just restated the argument I argued against  jobycom   Jan-30-04 11:31 AM   #128 
  - Why don't you retitle the thread, then?  leyton   Jan-29-04 02:15 PM   #68 
  - Edwards is not an "insider" in the same way Kerry is...  rumguy   Jan-29-04 02:29 PM   #79 
  - Closest probably Kennedy over Nixon  SaveElmer   Jan-29-04 02:45 PM   #87 
  - Nixon was not the incumbent president  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 02:54 PM   #90 
     - Which I did mention in my post dude...gotta read the whole thing  SaveElmer   Jan-29-04 03:18 PM   #101 
        - I did, I was giving you a  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 03:57 PM   #103 
  - When is the last time a candidate whose last name began with "D"  library_max   Jan-29-04 03:45 PM   #102 
  - Strawman  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 03:58 PM   #104 
     - But that's your opinion and your opinion only.  library_max   Jan-29-04 04:22 PM   #112 
        - My opinion in this case is uspported with historical precedent  Walt Starr   Jan-29-04 04:40 PM   #116 
           - So is mine.  library_max   Jan-29-04 04:50 PM   #121 
  - Remember...  rpf113   Jan-29-04 04:47 PM   #119 
  - The ONLY sitting congressman or senator  Adjoran   Jan-29-04 04:51 PM   #122 
  - Wrong  jsw_81   Jan-29-04 05:11 PM   #125 
  - By the way, there is a mistake in your sig.  leyton   Jan-29-04 04:57 PM   #124 
  - I think your definition of "insider" does not hold.  leyton   Jan-29-04 05:29 PM   #127 
 

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