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Reply #23: I agree with this one phrase "continuously shift" [View All]

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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. I agree with this one phrase "continuously shift"
In fact I wrote a post yesterday where I acknowledged something similar. In my view there is no way Bill Clinton or anyone else can prevent those shifts, they can have some effect by use of their campaigning skills, but in the end the electorate chooses the direction the country will go.

What amazes with all this "centrist" bashing is that so many here seem to have a poor understanding of the last couple hundred years of our political and economic history, and are unable to apply any of it to the future apparently. Instead there is this bitching and blaming our problems on one of the most successful politicians of our time.

How many more house seats, senate seats and Presidential races would we have lost if there was no change to the party platform. The 70's and 80's saw a major shift in the fundamental political environment here. It was because the electorate demanded changes.
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  -The problem with Bill Clinton centrism. His intellect obscures core issue. Armstead  Sep-19-05 11:30 AM   #0 
  - Yes, the DLC _is_ elitist, but, fyi,they don't intend to change  HereSince1628   Sep-19-05 11:39 AM   #1 
  - That is why they must be resisted, and marginalized,  Totally Committed   Sep-19-05 11:43 AM   #3 
     - Maybe even less than a fish needs a bicycle  HereSince1628   Sep-19-05 11:50 AM   #8 
  - Armstead, awesome post!  Totally Committed   Sep-19-05 11:41 AM   #2 
  - Thanks. I've been storing that line up for years.  Armstead   Sep-19-05 11:46 AM   #5 
  - That's the problem with wealthy liberals.  NCevilDUer   Sep-19-05 11:43 AM   #4 
  - So explain Jon Corzine  Hippo_Tron   Sep-19-05 02:41 PM   #25 
  - It's a generalization. There are always exceptions to the rule. nt  NCevilDUer   Sep-19-05 03:41 PM   #32 
  - I'm a "wealthy liberal" and to the left of progressive. I reject the DLC.  Seabiscuit   Sep-19-05 09:06 PM   #69 
  - If it doesn't fit on a bumper sticker it is not a winning strategy. eom  DURHAM D   Sep-19-05 11:49 AM   #6 
  - In the end its all about winning  Jim4Wes   Sep-19-05 11:50 AM   #7 
  - That DLC meme is wrong. It's actually all about _serving_  HereSince1628   Sep-19-05 11:57 AM   #10 
  - I disagree with that dichotomy. There are many ways to "win"  Armstead   Sep-19-05 11:57 AM   #11 
  - He was pretty good at losing, too  KevinJ   Sep-19-05 01:52 PM   #13 
     - I agree with this one phrase "continuously shift"  Jim4Wes   Sep-19-05 02:35 PM   #23 
        - It's chicken and egg problem  Armstead   Sep-19-05 02:42 PM   #26 
        - I think you're asking good questions  Jim4Wes   Sep-19-05 03:01 PM   #28 
        - It all depends upon how you define "successful"  KevinJ   Sep-19-05 03:20 PM   #30 
           - Well, this might be an unpopular post...  Jim4Wes   Sep-19-05 03:49 PM   #34 
           - Believe it or not, I agree with that  Armstead   Sep-19-05 05:10 PM   #46 
           - Well, I don't  KevinJ   Sep-19-05 06:50 PM   #55 
              - I am not supporting "burning it down either"  Armstead   Sep-19-05 08:25 PM   #63 
                 - Agreed, no argument there n/t  KevinJ   Sep-19-05 08:45 PM   #65 
           - You have a lot to learn about policy wonks  KevinJ   Sep-19-05 07:01 PM   #56 
              - That's one reason we have to open up beyond DC  Armstead   Sep-19-05 08:29 PM   #64 
              - Oh come on  Jim4Wes   Sep-19-05 09:10 PM   #70 
                 - You're probably right, but I think my definition best fits Clinton  KevinJ   Sep-19-05 10:09 PM   #77 
           - Right, by the criterion of staying in office, General Francisco Franco  Lydia Leftcoast   Sep-19-05 09:30 PM   #72 
  - It's ironic that...  Q   Sep-20-05 05:49 AM   #81 
     - This argument is little more than emotional tripe.  Jim4Wes   Sep-20-05 09:06 PM   #88 
  - This is my problem with Clinton:  madaboutharry   Sep-19-05 11:57 AM   #9 
  - I must admit I'm guilty of that too  Armstead   Sep-19-05 12:01 PM   #12 
  - It's not cynical to be realistic  KevinJ   Sep-19-05 02:01 PM   #16 
     - I agree -- The lack of balanced representation is an issue  Armstead   Sep-19-05 02:07 PM   #18 
  - Aren't comments like this as bad as...  renie408   Sep-19-05 02:01 PM   #15 
  - To repress those who disagree with them  Lydia Leftcoast   Sep-19-05 09:34 PM   #73 
  - Clinton's too smart to be that naive  Hippo_Tron   Sep-19-05 02:39 PM   #24 
  - To get something done these days you have to play both sides of the fence  nini   Sep-19-05 01:56 PM   #14 
  - How do you expect the tide to turn...  KevinJ   Sep-19-05 02:05 PM   #17 
  - Do you really think a FAR left agenda will fly right now?  nini   Sep-19-05 02:15 PM   #20 
     - Probably not  KevinJ   Sep-19-05 03:06 PM   #29 
     - Please define a "far left" agenda  Armstead   Sep-19-05 03:58 PM   #36 
        - Agree! Also, we need some MSM coverage of a Socialist Candidate  mestup   Sep-19-05 06:05 PM   #51 
        - Second that! n/t  KevinJ   Sep-19-05 07:04 PM   #57 
  - I think it's more a matter of bargaining from a fixed position  Armstead   Sep-19-05 02:12 PM   #19 
  - Makes sense...  nini   Sep-19-05 02:17 PM   #21 
  - Then why are Repubs not playing both sides of the fence?  rman   Sep-21-05 07:13 AM   #93 
  - The thing is that Bill Clinton was extrodinary enough to fuse  StudentOfDarrow   Sep-19-05 02:19 PM   #22 
  - Ah, the myth.  Disturbed   Sep-19-05 03:00 PM   #27 
  - I agree mostly with your critique of neoliberalism  BL611   Sep-19-05 03:20 PM   #31 
  - The assumption of inevitability is our problem  Armstead   Sep-19-05 03:50 PM   #35 
     - The neoliberal vision of free trade is not inevitable  BL611   Sep-19-05 04:03 PM   #37 
     - Flux is the only constant  Armstead   Sep-19-05 04:12 PM   #39 
        - Yes, but it took the Great depression  BL611   Sep-19-05 04:22 PM   #41 
           - Well, something similar occurred before that  Armstead   Sep-19-05 04:30 PM   #43 
              - Agreed  BL611   Sep-19-05 04:35 PM   #44 
     - Not inevitable, unpredictable.  Jim4Wes   Sep-19-05 04:09 PM   #38 
  - His intellect and stellar personality obscured a lot.  barb162   Sep-19-05 03:45 PM   #33 
  - What is your solution?  bluedawg12   Sep-19-05 04:13 PM   #40 
  - I addressed some of it in the posts above  Armstead   Sep-19-05 04:25 PM   #42 
     - Good, I got it and along these lines  bluedawg12   Sep-19-05 04:43 PM   #45 
     - May I ask you a question, Armstead?  KevinJ   Sep-19-05 07:28 PM   #58 
        - The framework can be simple, even when the issues are complex  Armstead   Sep-19-05 08:47 PM   #66 
           - Good answer, thanks  KevinJ   Sep-19-05 08:50 PM   #67 
  - Clinton's intellect obscures the problem with neoliberalism  StopThePendulum   Sep-19-05 05:29 PM   #47 
  - okay ... I read your entire post carefully ...  Pepperbelly   Sep-19-05 05:33 PM   #48 
  - The majority are well off- and the  bluedawg12   Sep-19-05 05:52 PM   #49 
  - I'm not talking about spin or solgans ...  Pepperbelly   Sep-19-05 05:54 PM   #50 
  - For starters look at what was done in the 20th Century  Armstead   Sep-19-05 06:06 PM   #52 
     - The problem is one of distribution ...  Pepperbelly   Sep-19-05 06:11 PM   #53 
        - The disparity of Income distribution has become obscene  Armstead   Sep-19-05 06:22 PM   #54 
           - But you still haven't suggested any solution to it.  Pepperbelly   Sep-19-05 07:33 PM   #60 
              - Tax corporations first and hardest and stop obscene  bluedawg12   Sep-19-05 07:43 PM   #61 
              - What you suggested plus....  Armstead   Sep-19-05 08:15 PM   #62 
                 - Those are out standing!  bluedawg12   Sep-19-05 09:15 PM   #71 
  - "majority is well off"? i doubt that very much  rman   Sep-21-05 07:19 AM   #94 
  - I had the same thought  Mr_Spock   Sep-19-05 10:07 PM   #76 
  - Jobs, education, upward mobility, tax corporations fairly  bluedawg12   Sep-19-05 07:33 PM   #59 
  - The rich don't shareever. Ever. Never ever.  valerief   Sep-19-05 09:01 PM   #68 
  - Arianna Huffington: "Bill Clinton's Muddled Attempt to Own the Middle"  understandinglife   Sep-19-05 09:45 PM   #74 
  - Democratic "Centrists"!  bvar22   Sep-19-05 09:57 PM   #75 
  - Ha,ha  Armstead   Sep-20-05 10:30 AM   #82 
  - Recommended.  Nothing Without Hope   Sep-19-05 11:00 PM   #78 
  - Interesting and very well written!  Stockholm   Sep-20-05 04:14 AM   #79 
  - There are a million ways to say it...  Q   Sep-20-05 05:42 AM   #80 
  - Very well said  Time for change   Sep-20-05 10:54 AM   #83 
  - Thanks.However, I don't there's a danger of going too far  Armstead   Sep-20-05 11:41 AM   #85 
     - Yes, it would be wonderful to turn the tables on the media weasels and GOP  Time for change   Sep-20-05 01:25 PM   #86 
        - However the MSM didn;t'beat Clinton....or Dean in the long run  Armstead   Sep-20-05 04:59 PM   #87 
           - Well, I wish and hope to God that you're right about that  Time for change   Sep-20-05 09:41 PM   #90 
           - Dupe  Time for change   Sep-20-05 09:43 PM   #91 
  - Most DU'ers are light years ahead of the people  bluedawg12   Sep-20-05 11:13 AM   #84 
  - I think you hit the nail on the head  Geek_Girl   Sep-20-05 09:20 PM   #89 
  - You succinctly summarized my point  Armstead   Sep-21-05 02:25 PM   #95 
  - Yes, that would be very refreshing indeed --  Time for change   Sep-21-05 09:09 PM   #96 
  - the ignorance and hubris of the wealthy  ulysses   Sep-20-05 10:04 PM   #92 
  - Kick.....  KoKo01   Sep-25-05 08:19 AM   #97 

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