Reply #68: I'm sorry if you took offense

[Ravenseye]

I can't see how what I said was a personal attack, but if you felt it was then I apologize.

I'm getting what people are saying, I just disagree with it. I have to deal with anti-choice people alot with my in-laws. Granted they're not the big wig fat cats, but they act and more importantly vote on their beliefs which are as I've stated in previous posts. Through family, in-laws, college, work, life I've met many different people from different walks of life and being the outspoken jerk that I am, I tend to bring up political arguments to feel people out. I don't want to be friends with people that I disagree with too vehemently on issues like this. sure it's all anecdotal and personal data, but it's what I've got to go on. Their views are how I've represented their 'side' in this thread.

Now, did I already say that there ARE people like you describe? Yes. There are. Hell there are people who want not just women to lose sufferage, but black people, kick out anyone non-white, etc. There are some nutty people, with a disproportionate amount of power in this country. I can see that. I'm not dumb.

Everyone's motiviations are different and in my posts I've talked about how the views on this topic are widely varied, from the position, to the motivation, to where the line is drawn.

As far as men never acting in their own self interests etc etc...In fact I believe the opposite. I think that except for rare exceptions EVERYONE, man and woman, acts in their own self interests. When someone acts for the good of the community it's because they feel it's in their own self interest to have a good community around them. Hence what I believe is one of the major differences between the progressive and conservative mindset. The conservative pursues their self-interests primarily but focusing on themselves. The progressive pursues their self-interests primarily by focusing on others and the environment surrounding them. The conservative keeps himself afloat at the expense of others, the progressive helps to build a boat for everyone at the risk to themselves (knowing that if it gets built it will be much easier than treading water).

Anyway the fact that Dobson or some of those other lunatics might want to keep their women barefoot and pregnant doesn't mean that the world view of theirs is a driving factor in the argument. What I've been disagreeing with is that, overall, the desire by some cabal of men to destroy the rights of women is controlling the anti-choice movement is I feel a conspiracy theory. By far the vast majority of people who vote on this issue don't feel that way, and no matter how easily brainwashed they apparently are by fox news, I don't feel that this is one of those cases. It's a severe ideological world view difference that has existed for millenia not just since 1973. I've never claimed it to be a black and white issue, it is extremely complex. I'm just saying that for the vast majority of people who VOTE for the anti-choice candidate, what I've been writing is what they think.

I'm saying this because if this is the case, then we are better prepared to take an argument to them which places holes in their world view. If we can do that, we can convert people. It's possible. My wife, I have no ex-wife, was a protester. Now she as EXTREMELY pro-choice. These people can be educated, but only if we know how to approach them. If we approach them in the way that has been suggested, we won't reach them.