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Reply #57: You miss the point [View All]

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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-05 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. You miss the point
It's their frame. They holler 2nd Amendment to convince the voters they will die for the Constitution. They fight for the unborn and Terri Schiavo to convince people they care about the most vulnerable, all the sick, poor and disabled. They fight against regulation to convince voters they're removing the frustrating regulations the individual has to deal with, when the only regulation they're really removing is corporate regulation.

It goes along with what JohnnyCougar said yesterday. Stop arguing facts and start arguing impressions. The 2nd Amendment allows them to give the impression they're the party of the constitution, when nothing could be further from the truth.
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  -Culture Of Life: Hypocrisy Seen on Guns Dr Ron  Mar-24-05 09:15 AM   #0 
  - Guns and Life don't go together very well.  Mary in KC   Mar-24-05 09:22 AM   #1 
  - Would you let children drive?  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 09:28 AM   #3 
  - Weak analogy. Most shootings are not accidental...  tubbacheez   Mar-24-05 09:45 AM   #8 
  - Exact analogy.  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 10:44 AM   #11 
     - Even in a narrow context of children actors...  tubbacheez   Mar-24-05 11:06 AM   #15 
  - It's not as if...  kerrygoddess   Mar-24-05 10:52 AM   #12 
     - And we have laws...  sendero   Mar-24-05 03:27 PM   #43 
  - The GOP-NRA deathcult's brownshirt footsoldiers are gunwackos  billbuckhead   Mar-24-05 09:33 AM   #4 
  - No hypocrisy on guns.  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 09:26 AM   #2 
  - Can one measure how many people are terrorized by guns?  billbuckhead   Mar-24-05 09:36 AM   #5 
  - Inanimate object terrorizes...film at 11.  skippythwndrdog   Mar-24-05 02:38 PM   #21 
     - It does  Mass   Mar-24-05 03:12 PM   #35 
  - It's always interesting to see how many gun owners  MrBenchley   Mar-24-05 09:41 AM   #6 
  - I do NOT daydream about shooting people.  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 11:28 AM   #16 
     - Didn't say YOU did.  MrBenchley   Mar-24-05 03:42 PM   #52 
        - Lots of DUers talk about having guns for a revolution too.  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 04:06 PM   #62 
           - Yeah, they do....  MrBenchley   Mar-24-05 04:18 PM   #71 
  - Self Defense and Gun Control Are Not In Opposition  Dr Ron   Mar-24-05 09:48 AM   #9 
  - Mistakes in your argument.  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 11:00 AM   #14 
  - Effective gun control is possible  Dr Ron   Mar-24-05 11:41 AM   #18 
     - The biggest source of genuine AK-47s is Africa.  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 12:31 PM   #19 
        - Proving the point  Dr Ron   Mar-24-05 02:08 PM   #20 
           - More on smart guns  Dr Ron   Mar-24-05 02:44 PM   #23 
           - You expect me to trust a gun with a 20% failure rate in an emergency???  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 03:12 PM   #34 
              - Still being worked on  Dr Ron   Mar-24-05 03:17 PM   #38 
           - About Smart Guns.  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 03:09 PM   #30 
              - Looks like more knee jerk reaction  Dr Ron   Mar-24-05 03:16 PM   #37 
                 - Hmmmm. So you make a variation of ad hominum attack when you lose?  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 03:20 PM   #40 
                    - No point in going through all  Dr Ron   Mar-24-05 03:32 PM   #46 
                       - Yet you try to make gun ownership so difficult.  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 03:58 PM   #58 
                          - Doesn't have to be difficult  Dr Ron   Mar-24-05 04:08 PM   #63 
                             - It is the cumulative effect.  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 04:17 PM   #70 
                                - Obviously can't have all the laws  Dr Ron   Mar-24-05 04:44 PM   #83 
                                   - Mandatory training makes it more difficult to legally drive a car.  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 05:01 PM   #89 
                                      - Not a question of regulations, but which regulations  Dr Ron   Mar-25-05 10:58 AM   #138 
                                         - We probably aren't that far apart.  Silverhair   Mar-25-05 11:33 AM   #140 
  - Do you know what an "assault weapon" is?  skippythwndrdog   Mar-24-05 02:49 PM   #25 
     - Reich Wing??  Mass   Mar-24-05 03:07 PM   #28 
        - Of all the gun nut hooey around  MrBenchley   Mar-24-05 03:13 PM   #36 
  - Gun control is not forbidding guns  Mass   Mar-24-05 10:14 AM   #10 
  - Great! Smart Gun Control does not say you can't have them!  kerrygoddess   Mar-24-05 10:58 AM   #13 
  - When The Brown Shirts Come For Me I Intend To Fight  mhr   Mar-24-05 08:31 PM   #115 
  - How do you know then that their lives needed defending?  KevinJ   Mar-25-05 10:48 AM   #137 
  - Remember, the same bunch put assault weapons back in stores  MrBenchley   Mar-24-05 09:44 AM   #7 
  - Do you know what an "assault weapon" is?  skippythwndrdog   Mar-24-05 02:51 PM   #26 
     - Yes I do, skippy...  MrBenchley   Mar-24-05 03:10 PM   #32 
  - Related article in LA Times  Dr Ron   Mar-24-05 11:38 AM   #17 
  - I am pro-gun rights, because I respect life.  skippythwndrdog   Mar-24-05 02:42 PM   #22 
  - We've already refuted this argument  Dr Ron   Mar-24-05 02:46 PM   #24 
  - Bull. You've done nothing of the sort.  skippythwndrdog   Mar-24-05 02:52 PM   #27 
     - Yes, see above posts  Dr Ron   Mar-24-05 03:09 PM   #31 
        - Which is why gun controls are necessary.  Mass   Mar-24-05 03:36 PM   #50 
  - Interesting statistics  Mass   Mar-24-05 03:17 PM   #39 
     - What about Switzerland?  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 03:24 PM   #42 
        - Yes  Mass   Mar-24-05 03:28 PM   #44 
        - So the gun isn't the cause, it's the people.  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 03:34 PM   #48 
           - Which is why training and licensing are necessary.  Mass   Mar-24-05 03:38 PM   #51 
              - I have NO OBJECTION to mandatory training.  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 04:02 PM   #61 
        - I wonder why gun nuts don't move to Switzerland en masse...  MrBenchley   Mar-24-05 03:46 PM   #53 
        - I would be interested in further research ...  PittLib   Mar-24-05 04:00 PM   #59 
           - Obviously, those are the things that make the difference.  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 04:08 PM   #64 
              - I'm not really sure what you mean by "gungrabber laws"...  PittLib   Mar-24-05 04:40 PM   #82 
  - Just because they yell 2nd Amendment  sandnsea   Mar-24-05 03:08 PM   #29 
  - Unfortunately they aren't aware of the rest of the Bill of Rights  Dr Ron   Mar-24-05 03:11 PM   #33 
  - I'm a member of the ACLU.  BullGooseLoony   Mar-24-05 04:46 PM   #85 
  - For that matter...  MrBenchley   Mar-24-05 03:49 PM   #54 
     - You miss the point  sandnsea   Mar-24-05 03:58 PM   #57 
        - I'm not missing any point...  MrBenchley   Mar-24-05 04:16 PM   #68 
           - That's worked so well  sandnsea   Mar-24-05 04:35 PM   #80 
              - Again, if all you weant is to fool the simple-minded  MrBenchley   Mar-24-05 07:28 PM   #112 
  - Not culture of life, culture of violence  Mass   Mar-24-05 03:23 PM   #41 
  - Teaching PROPER firearms use to children is a GOOD thing.  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 03:29 PM   #45 
     - At least something we agree on  Dr Ron   Mar-24-05 03:34 PM   #47 
     - Well I disagree  Mass   Mar-24-05 03:34 PM   #49 
        - Gun safety classes could help that  sandnsea   Mar-24-05 03:54 PM   #55 
        - I agree with that.  Mass   Mar-24-05 04:32 PM   #78 
           - If I lived in greater Boston  sandnsea   Mar-24-05 04:40 PM   #81 
        - You know, it's a lot like sex education.  BullGooseLoony   Mar-24-05 04:33 PM   #79 
  - More of this...  sendero   Mar-24-05 03:56 PM   #56 
  - false argument out of the gate  sandnsea   Mar-24-05 04:00 PM   #60 
  - That is my argument..  sendero   Mar-24-05 04:32 PM   #77 
     - false arguments  sandnsea   Mar-24-05 04:52 PM   #87 
        - Yes, there WAS that problem in the 50s & 60s.  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 05:04 PM   #91 
        - Okeedoke  sandnsea   Mar-24-05 05:10 PM   #97 
           - In fact, guns didn't become a hot issue until the 1970s  MrBenchley   Mar-24-05 07:20 PM   #111 
              - I remember the times, so I don't need quotes.  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 08:47 PM   #118 
                 - I remember them too...  MrBenchley   Mar-25-05 06:57 AM   #127 
        - tired arguments...  sendero   Mar-24-05 05:08 PM   #95 
           - So you support gun regulation  sandnsea   Mar-24-05 05:14 PM   #99 
              - It doesn't...  sendero   Mar-24-05 05:20 PM   #100 
                 - Then we completely agree  sandnsea   Mar-24-05 05:22 PM   #102 
                    - Me..  sendero   Mar-24-05 06:27 PM   #109 
                       - Oh, don't count on it  sandnsea   Mar-24-05 08:22 PM   #113 
                          - You shall..  sendero   Mar-24-05 08:24 PM   #114 
  - It was gun control cost Ann Richards the governship against Bush.  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 04:13 PM   #66 
  - And despite the dire predictions..  sendero   Mar-24-05 04:28 PM   #74 
  - But there was no big rush to get concealed carry....  MrBenchley   Mar-24-05 04:30 PM   #76 
     - Interesting that you don't list instances of guns used in defense.  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 04:49 PM   #86 
     - I don't list UFO sightings either....  MrBenchley   Mar-24-05 05:04 PM   #90 
        - Are you saying that guns have never deterred an attack? NT  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 05:08 PM   #94 
           - I think it happens every once in a blue moon  MrBenchley   Mar-24-05 07:18 PM   #110 
              - Then we profoundly disagree.  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 08:45 PM   #117 
                 - Yeah we do....  MrBenchley   Mar-25-05 07:01 AM   #128 
                    - You are leaving out a huge group of events.  Silverhair   Mar-25-05 10:23 AM   #136 
                       - That IS rich...  MrBenchley   Mar-25-05 11:08 AM   #139 
     - No rush? 1.6% of the population? Well, it is lower than South Dakota.  Firethorn   Mar-25-05 08:19 AM   #131 
        - Thanks for making my point...  MrBenchley   Mar-25-05 09:11 AM   #134 
  - Problems with current laws don't mean there should be no laws  Dr Ron   Mar-24-05 04:14 PM   #67 
     - Well - the devil is in the details...  sendero   Mar-24-05 04:25 PM   #73 
        - Agree--some regulations good, some aren't  Dr Ron   Mar-24-05 04:45 PM   #84 
           - Yes, but the Democrats are saddled with the blame for it.  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 05:10 PM   #96 
  - Culture of Life means the Braindead and unborn ONLY  LSK   Mar-24-05 04:09 PM   #65 
  - Hypocrisy on both sides!  Leilani   Mar-24-05 04:16 PM   #69 
  - Applause !!!! NT  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 04:19 PM   #72 
  - YES. Jesus. nt  BullGooseLoony   Mar-24-05 04:28 PM   #75 
  - You can have guns and smoke  sandnsea   Mar-24-05 04:55 PM   #88 
     - But it IS from our party that increasing restrictions on them come from.  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 05:07 PM   #93 
     - "Democrats saddled with the blame"  sandnsea   Mar-24-05 05:26 PM   #103 
        - The laws the gungrabbers in our party want are NOT sensible. NT  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 08:48 PM   #119 
     - Not a Bullshit argument  Leilani   Mar-24-05 05:12 PM   #98 
        - Who is fighting for the Constitution now?  sandnsea   Mar-24-05 05:21 PM   #101 
           - The problem I have with you is that YOU determine  Leilani   Mar-24-05 05:40 PM   #105 
              - So you're a single issue smoking voter  sandnsea   Mar-24-05 05:51 PM   #106 
                 - You continue to insult my intelligence.  Leilani   Mar-24-05 06:01 PM   #107 
                    - The exact opposite  sandnsea   Mar-24-05 06:12 PM   #108 
                    - Self delete. Accidental duplicate.  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 09:12 PM   #120 
  - drop the gun control, folks. We will never win the House again  montana500   Mar-24-05 05:06 PM   #92 
  - Rural people care about gun deaths  sandnsea   Mar-24-05 05:31 PM   #104 
     - I think it's more than their better angels, actually  Sparkly   Mar-24-05 08:35 PM   #116 
        - Gun education may help...  Firethorn   Mar-24-05 09:30 PM   #122 
        - sorry, no new gun laws. Bad, bad bad.  montana500   Mar-24-05 09:53 PM   #124 
        - What a ludicrous argument in every way...  MrBenchley   Mar-25-05 09:06 AM   #133 
        - Already done.  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 10:14 PM   #126 
  - A proposal that may satisfy both sides, except for extremists.  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 09:16 PM   #121 
  - Suggested modifications.  Firethorn   Mar-24-05 09:49 PM   #123 
  - Everything open for discussion.  Silverhair   Mar-24-05 10:08 PM   #125 
  - My gripe about gun nuts  MrBenchley   Mar-25-05 07:03 AM   #129 
     - Gun grabber names?  Firethorn   Mar-25-05 07:48 AM   #130 
        - Yes, I do notice a trend...  MrBenchley   Mar-25-05 08:56 AM   #132 
           - Why are they against private firearm ownership?  Firethorn   Mar-25-05 02:49 PM   #141 
              - Again, why don't you find out what they actually say  MrBenchley   Mar-25-05 03:55 PM   #142 
  - A Bit More Hypocrisy on Guns from the "Culture of Life"  MrBenchley   Mar-25-05 09:15 AM   #135 
 

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