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Reply #85: Call him what you like. But we'll lose the argument unless we eliminate [View All]

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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #83
85. Call him what you like. But we'll lose the argument unless we eliminate
their obvious "out."

Like it or not, Bush and his cronies CAN make a GOOD case against his being a racist. They can NOT make such a case when it comes to class.

Blacks/hispanics voted for Bush in larger numbers than before:

In Ohio, according to exit polls conducted by the National Election Pool, Bush won 16 percent of the black vote, up from 9 percent in 2000.

David Bositis, an analyst of black politics at the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies, calculates that if Kerry had won black votes at the same rate as Al Gore, he would have gained 55,000 that instead went to Bush, a net switch of 110,000.

Kerry was trailing Bush by 136,000 votes in Ohio when he conceded, having concluded that counting the more than 100,000 provisional ballots couldn't change the outcome. With those additional 110,000 black votes, Bositis said, the identity of the next president might still be in doubt.

Bush scored a similar gain with black voters in the battleground states of Florida, where the 13 percent contributed to his comfortable victory, and in Pennsylvania, where Democrats were able to absorb the 16 percent and still win.

We can keep on calling Bush/Neo-cons racist, and keep losing elections in the process.

After all were the ones who look condescending and perhaps "racist" if we continually perpetuate the "Rice and Gonzales are too DUMB to realize they're being used" meme.
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  -Bush is not a racist. mzmolly  Feb-03-05 09:13 PM   #0 
  - only problem is that many people will ignore that accusation.  RPM   Feb-03-05 09:17 PM   #1 
  - I disagree, I think the people who stood in long lines might as well.  mzmolly   Feb-03-05 09:21 PM   #2 
  - Yes and no  RPM   Feb-03-05 09:44 PM   #12 
  - Many poor people voted for * and they have no illusion of being wealthy.  mzmolly   Feb-03-05 09:52 PM   #14 
     - agreed  RPM   Feb-03-05 10:07 PM   #22 
        - Indeed it is. For the record, I piss and moan about ceeding the  mzmolly   Feb-03-05 10:13 PM   #23 
  - In many ways he is  FreedomAngel82   Feb-03-05 11:09 PM   #30 
  - I think option 2 is the answer.  NYC   Feb-03-05 09:24 PM   #3 
  - Than we must define "Class" as it pertains to this administration.  mzmolly   Feb-03-05 09:32 PM   #8 
     - Defining class to the deluded is a tough one.  NYC   Feb-03-05 09:35 PM   #9 
        - It can be defined in a very clear manner via "tax cuts" and other policy.  mzmolly   Feb-03-05 09:37 PM   #11 
        - Do you know how many people think they got tax cuts when they didn't?  NYC   Feb-03-05 09:46 PM   #13 
           - I sure do! That's one more failure on OUR part as Democrats.  mzmolly   Feb-03-05 09:55 PM   #17 
              - I never said don't address it.  NYC   Feb-03-05 10:02 PM   #20 
                 - But you did say it was "tough to explain to the deluded" I agree.  mzmolly   Feb-03-05 10:04 PM   #21 
                    - I don't think you can convince people that they are not of the class  NYC   Feb-03-05 10:19 PM   #25 
                       - That's why we need to define what "classism" is.  mzmolly   Feb-03-05 10:23 PM   #26 
                          - Racism was never the sole argument.  NYC   Feb-03-05 10:25 PM   #27 
                             - Depends on who you ask.  mzmolly   Feb-03-05 10:31 PM   #28 
        - Start from the effect of a $500 car repair.  blondeatlast   Feb-05-05 08:34 AM   #44 
           - That's a really great way to think of it.  ncrainbowgrrl   Feb-05-05 10:12 PM   #103 
  - Agree  KT2000   Feb-03-05 09:29 PM   #6 
  - "Working people" vs. "working class."  blondeatlast   Feb-05-05 08:31 AM   #43 
  - ** is a class warrior  realpolitik   Feb-03-05 09:24 PM   #4 
  - One can only hope he meets a similar fate.  mzmolly   Feb-03-05 09:35 PM   #10 
  - You've got to be kidding!  quiet.american   Feb-03-05 09:27 PM   #5 
  - Of course * I * agree, but the average American will NOT relate.  mzmolly   Feb-03-05 09:31 PM   #7 
     - Try saying classism to "average folk" - see what kind of response you get  quiet.american   Feb-03-05 09:55 PM   #16 
        - This is why I'm mentioning this NOW. How can we properly frame this.  mzmolly   Feb-03-05 09:59 PM   #18 
        - Still not sure "racism" doesn't stick to Bush --  quiet.american   Feb-03-05 11:24 PM   #31 
        - I haven't read it but it sounds very interesting. I've read Lakoffs  mzmolly   Feb-04-05 11:53 AM   #34 
           - You're welcome -- and the best part is, it's only ten bucks! :)  quiet.american   Feb-04-05 03:32 PM   #35 
        - bloke  kaho   Feb-04-05 10:12 PM   #40 
        - Darn! I knew it!  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 12:28 PM   #58 
        - I still like the "war on work" or working people.  blondeatlast   Feb-05-05 08:36 AM   #46 
           - Excellent. "War on working people"  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 12:30 PM   #60 
        - That's elitism.  borg5575   Feb-05-05 09:11 AM   #52 
           - Interesting point.  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 12:29 PM   #59 
  - I think G.Brish's hate for  jjtss   Feb-03-05 09:52 PM   #15 
  - Yes indeed Joan!  mzmolly   Feb-03-05 10:00 PM   #19 
  - Agreed. Reversing the "elite" meme would help address this.  blondeatlast   Feb-05-05 08:40 AM   #47 
  - He is a psychopath....many are equal opportunity murderers  leesa   Feb-03-05 10:19 PM   #24 
  - What's wrong with both?  deadparrot   Feb-03-05 11:06 PM   #29 
  - I think he is fine with colorful millionaires. How bout "Elitist" instead  mzmolly   Feb-04-05 11:52 AM   #33 
  - Yet, it is clear, the GOP as a whole, use ethnicity as "photo op", and  rumpel   Feb-03-05 11:39 PM   #32 
  - He's never shown he cares for poor Whites....  Bridget Burke   Feb-04-05 03:44 PM   #36 
  - I don't think he's classist  MattG   Feb-04-05 05:22 PM   #37 
     - Well, um, how does that differ from classism?  blondeatlast   Feb-05-05 08:41 AM   #49 
  - Plantation owners had "House Slaves" too.  Kinkistyle   Feb-04-05 05:50 PM   #38 
  - Nope. But Condi gets a damn good salary for her work. I don't  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 12:31 PM   #61 
  - ...road to nowhere...  kaho   Feb-04-05 07:02 PM   #39 
  - It is spot on precisely due to human's desire to attain opportunity.  Just Me   Feb-05-05 08:41 AM   #48 
  - Indeed, 40 million ....  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 12:36 PM   #64 
  - My husband's from India.  blondeatlast   Feb-05-05 08:43 AM   #50 
  - Here here!  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 12:31 PM   #62 
  - So one has to be starving to understand classism? No I'm not going hungry  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 12:35 PM   #63 
  - The GOP (and Bush) have used racist resentment for political gain ever  marcologico   Feb-05-05 08:27 AM   #41 
  - Precisely. I've been saying this for some time now. nt  blondeatlast   Feb-05-05 08:29 AM   #42 
  - Wow! My immediate reaction to your headline: "Bush is not a racist"  Just Me   Feb-05-05 08:35 AM   #45 
  - Just trying to "frame" the debate in a more meaningful manner.  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 12:54 PM   #72 
  - Question: Why does the GOP disenfranchise black voters? Why did Bush file  marcologico   Feb-05-05 08:54 AM   #51 
  - Bush hasn't attended any soldiers funerals to my knowlege.  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 12:39 PM   #65 
  - When the chimp nominates  LibDemAlways   Feb-05-05 09:23 AM   #53 
  - I agree, but the smoke screen is working so it's time to change the  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 12:40 PM   #66 
  - * does not care enough to be racist or classist, he only whats the money  GetTheRightVote   Feb-05-05 10:37 AM   #54 
  - I'd call the "spreading democracy to the heathen Moslems" lie racist. n/t  marcologico   Feb-05-05 10:42 AM   #55 
     - So do I. But he's not bombing his rich friends in Saudi. He's bombing  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 12:41 PM   #67 
  - BS! he's both. "I believe that people whose skin is different than ours  robbedvoter   Feb-05-05 11:42 AM   #56 
  - What?  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 12:43 PM   #69 
  - But your "point" denies the fact that W IS RACIST.  robbedvoter   Feb-05-05 03:34 PM   #74 
     - I think W makes an exception for people of a certain financial stature.  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 05:32 PM   #77 
  - Okay-so he screws over poor people of all colors...  Dr Fate   Feb-05-05 03:37 PM   #76 
     - Good Gawd, I'm doing no such thing. I chose a thread title that would  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 05:51 PM   #84 
        - I know- I was framing the issue:  Dr Fate   Feb-05-05 07:16 PM   #99 
           - Seems were on the same page.  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 07:32 PM   #100 
  - I totally agree - Bush has learned to play the RACE CARD  mockingbich   Feb-05-05 11:52 AM   #57 
  - Exactly my point! Thanks for "getting it" It's time to change the terms  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 12:44 PM   #70 
  - Yeah, but "tokenism" doesn't negate racism. neither should we.  robbedvoter   Feb-05-05 03:36 PM   #75 
     - Prove it's "tokenism"  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 05:38 PM   #79 
  - How do you think the GOP has held the WH for the last 36 years,  marcologico   Feb-05-05 12:42 PM   #68 
  - Of course. And, he's managed to do that while promoting a black woman  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 12:49 PM   #71 
  - "George Bush nominated Condi Rice and Alberto Gonzales..."  Zhade   Feb-05-05 03:16 PM   #73 
  - Couldn't he promote them to a lesser position if he were a racist?  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 05:39 PM   #80 
     - Rice, Gonzales, Powell, and the rest are basically canon fodder.  marcologico   Feb-05-05 05:45 PM   #82 
     - See my post # 85.  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 05:59 PM   #86 
        - See my post #87.  marcologico   Feb-05-05 06:03 PM   #88 
           - See my post #89  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 06:04 PM   #90 
     - Oh, agreed, it's better to go after him on the class issue.  Zhade   Feb-06-05 02:17 AM   #104 
        - Were he the type to admit error perhaps?  mzmolly   Feb-06-05 04:18 PM   #106 
  - classist?  niblick   Feb-05-05 05:35 PM   #78 
  - He has "classist" policies.  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 05:41 PM   #81 
     - What's the point of "reframing" racism as classism? To let Shrub off the  marcologico   Feb-05-05 05:49 PM   #83 
        - Call him what you like. But we'll lose the argument unless we eliminate  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 05:59 PM   #85 
           - The way I see it, the only thing we'll lose is more minority voters.  marcologico   Feb-05-05 06:02 PM   #87 
              - "The only thing"  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 06:03 PM   #89 
                 - Nopity.  marcologico   Feb-05-05 06:06 PM   #91 
                    - Were losing "women/hispanics/blacks/ etc...  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 06:08 PM   #92 
                       - "Classism" is a polite diversion. "Racism" is honest and has firepower.  marcologico   Feb-05-05 06:11 PM   #93 
                          - "Classim" covers all bases, and brings necessary issues to the forefront.  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 06:14 PM   #94 
                             - "Classism" is how they WANT us to reframe their racism.  marcologico   Feb-05-05 06:21 PM   #95 
                                - I couldn't disagree more! They would FEAR us framing the issue as such.  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 06:27 PM   #96 
                                - "Classism" sounds about as fearsome as "classicism," which most people  marcologico   Feb-05-05 06:31 PM   #97 
                                   - We'll have to agree to disagree.  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 06:52 PM   #98 
                                - ..I totally agree...  kaho   Feb-09-05 01:30 AM   #107 
  - Racism shows at the lower income levels  DemDogs   Feb-05-05 08:26 PM   #101 
  - Basically the same.  mzmolly   Feb-05-05 09:05 PM   #102 
  - Hey, I agree  ComerPerro   Feb-06-05 02:26 AM   #105 
  - Agree 100%, Bush isn't a Christian fundie either  Hippo_Tron   Feb-09-05 01:48 AM   #108 

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