mzmolly
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Thu Feb-03-05 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
| 17. I sure do! That's one more failure on OUR part as Democrats. |
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This is part of the reason we have to call a fig a fig here and address the issue of classism head on.
If we continue to say we shouldn't address X because people are stupid, they will remain ... "stupid."
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| -Bush is not a racist. |
mzmolly |
Feb-03-05 09:13 PM |
#0 |
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only problem is that many people will ignore that accusation. |
RPM |
Feb-03-05 09:17 PM |
#1 |
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I disagree, I think the people who stood in long lines might as well. |
mzmolly |
Feb-03-05 09:21 PM |
#2 |
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Yes and no |
RPM |
Feb-03-05 09:44 PM |
#12 |
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Many poor people voted for * and they have no illusion of being wealthy. |
mzmolly |
Feb-03-05 09:52 PM |
#14 |
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agreed |
RPM |
Feb-03-05 10:07 PM |
#22 |
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Indeed it is. For the record, I piss and moan about ceeding the |
mzmolly |
Feb-03-05 10:13 PM |
#23 |
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In many ways he is |
FreedomAngel82 |
Feb-03-05 11:09 PM |
#30 |
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I think option 2 is the answer. |
NYC |
Feb-03-05 09:24 PM |
#3 |
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Than we must define "Class" as it pertains to this administration. |
mzmolly |
Feb-03-05 09:32 PM |
#8 |
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Defining class to the deluded is a tough one. |
NYC |
Feb-03-05 09:35 PM |
#9 |
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It can be defined in a very clear manner via "tax cuts" and other policy. |
mzmolly |
Feb-03-05 09:37 PM |
#11 |
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Do you know how many people think they got tax cuts when they didn't? |
NYC |
Feb-03-05 09:46 PM |
#13 |
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I sure do! That's one more failure on OUR part as Democrats. |
mzmolly |
Feb-03-05 09:55 PM |
#17 |
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I never said don't address it. |
NYC |
Feb-03-05 10:02 PM |
#20 |
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But you did say it was "tough to explain to the deluded" I agree. |
mzmolly |
Feb-03-05 10:04 PM |
#21 |
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I don't think you can convince people that they are not of the class |
NYC |
Feb-03-05 10:19 PM |
#25 |
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That's why we need to define what "classism" is. |
mzmolly |
Feb-03-05 10:23 PM |
#26 |
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Racism was never the sole argument. |
NYC |
Feb-03-05 10:25 PM |
#27 |
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Depends on who you ask. |
mzmolly |
Feb-03-05 10:31 PM |
#28 |
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Start from the effect of a $500 car repair. |
blondeatlast |
Feb-05-05 08:34 AM |
#44 |
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That's a really great way to think of it. |
ncrainbowgrrl |
Feb-05-05 10:12 PM |
#103 |
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Agree |
KT2000 |
Feb-03-05 09:29 PM |
#6 |
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"Working people" vs. "working class." |
blondeatlast |
Feb-05-05 08:31 AM |
#43 |
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** is a class warrior |
realpolitik |
Feb-03-05 09:24 PM |
#4 |
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One can only hope he meets a similar fate. |
mzmolly |
Feb-03-05 09:35 PM |
#10 |
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You've got to be kidding! |
quiet.american |
Feb-03-05 09:27 PM |
#5 |
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Of course * I * agree, but the average American will NOT relate. |
mzmolly |
Feb-03-05 09:31 PM |
#7 |
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Try saying classism to "average folk" - see what kind of response you get |
quiet.american |
Feb-03-05 09:55 PM |
#16 |
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This is why I'm mentioning this NOW. How can we properly frame this. |
mzmolly |
Feb-03-05 09:59 PM |
#18 |
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Still not sure "racism" doesn't stick to Bush -- |
quiet.american |
Feb-03-05 11:24 PM |
#31 |
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I haven't read it but it sounds very interesting. I've read Lakoffs |
mzmolly |
Feb-04-05 11:53 AM |
#34 |
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You're welcome -- and the best part is, it's only ten bucks! :) |
quiet.american |
Feb-04-05 03:32 PM |
#35 |
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bloke |
kaho |
Feb-04-05 10:12 PM |
#40 |
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Darn! I knew it! |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 12:28 PM |
#58 |
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I still like the "war on work" or working people. |
blondeatlast |
Feb-05-05 08:36 AM |
#46 |
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Excellent. "War on working people" |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 12:30 PM |
#60 |
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That's elitism. |
borg5575 |
Feb-05-05 09:11 AM |
#52 |
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Interesting point. |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 12:29 PM |
#59 |
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I think G.Brish's hate for |
jjtss |
Feb-03-05 09:52 PM |
#15 |
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Yes indeed Joan! |
mzmolly |
Feb-03-05 10:00 PM |
#19 |
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Agreed. Reversing the "elite" meme would help address this. |
blondeatlast |
Feb-05-05 08:40 AM |
#47 |
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He is a psychopath....many are equal opportunity murderers |
leesa |
Feb-03-05 10:19 PM |
#24 |
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What's wrong with both? |
deadparrot |
Feb-03-05 11:06 PM |
#29 |
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I think he is fine with colorful millionaires. How bout "Elitist" instead |
mzmolly |
Feb-04-05 11:52 AM |
#33 |
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Yet, it is clear, the GOP as a whole, use ethnicity as "photo op", and |
rumpel |
Feb-03-05 11:39 PM |
#32 |
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He's never shown he cares for poor Whites.... |
Bridget Burke |
Feb-04-05 03:44 PM |
#36 |
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I don't think he's classist |
MattG |
Feb-04-05 05:22 PM |
#37 |
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Well, um, how does that differ from classism? |
blondeatlast |
Feb-05-05 08:41 AM |
#49 |
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Plantation owners had "House Slaves" too. |
Kinkistyle |
Feb-04-05 05:50 PM |
#38 |
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Nope. But Condi gets a damn good salary for her work. I don't |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 12:31 PM |
#61 |
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...road to nowhere... |
kaho |
Feb-04-05 07:02 PM |
#39 |
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It is spot on precisely due to human's desire to attain opportunity. |
Just Me |
Feb-05-05 08:41 AM |
#48 |
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Indeed, 40 million .... |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 12:36 PM |
#64 |
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My husband's from India. |
blondeatlast |
Feb-05-05 08:43 AM |
#50 |
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Here here! |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 12:31 PM |
#62 |
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So one has to be starving to understand classism? No I'm not going hungry |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 12:35 PM |
#63 |
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The GOP (and Bush) have used racist resentment for political gain ever |
marcologico |
Feb-05-05 08:27 AM |
#41 |
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Precisely. I've been saying this for some time now. nt |
blondeatlast |
Feb-05-05 08:29 AM |
#42 |
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Wow! My immediate reaction to your headline: "Bush is not a racist" |
Just Me |
Feb-05-05 08:35 AM |
#45 |
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Just trying to "frame" the debate in a more meaningful manner. |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 12:54 PM |
#72 |
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Question: Why does the GOP disenfranchise black voters? Why did Bush file |
marcologico |
Feb-05-05 08:54 AM |
#51 |
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Bush hasn't attended any soldiers funerals to my knowlege. |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 12:39 PM |
#65 |
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When the chimp nominates |
LibDemAlways |
Feb-05-05 09:23 AM |
#53 |
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I agree, but the smoke screen is working so it's time to change the |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 12:40 PM |
#66 |
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* does not care enough to be racist or classist, he only whats the money |
GetTheRightVote |
Feb-05-05 10:37 AM |
#54 |
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I'd call the "spreading democracy to the heathen Moslems" lie racist. n/t |
marcologico |
Feb-05-05 10:42 AM |
#55 |
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So do I. But he's not bombing his rich friends in Saudi. He's bombing |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 12:41 PM |
#67 |
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BS! he's both. "I believe that people whose skin is different than ours |
robbedvoter |
Feb-05-05 11:42 AM |
#56 |
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What? |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 12:43 PM |
#69 |
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But your "point" denies the fact that W IS RACIST. |
robbedvoter |
Feb-05-05 03:34 PM |
#74 |
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I think W makes an exception for people of a certain financial stature. |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 05:32 PM |
#77 |
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Okay-so he screws over poor people of all colors... |
Dr Fate |
Feb-05-05 03:37 PM |
#76 |
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Good Gawd, I'm doing no such thing. I chose a thread title that would |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 05:51 PM |
#84 |
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I know- I was framing the issue: |
Dr Fate |
Feb-05-05 07:16 PM |
#99 |
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Seems were on the same page. |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 07:32 PM |
#100 |
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I totally agree - Bush has learned to play the RACE CARD |
mockingbich |
Feb-05-05 11:52 AM |
#57 |
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Exactly my point! Thanks for "getting it" It's time to change the terms |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 12:44 PM |
#70 |
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Yeah, but "tokenism" doesn't negate racism. neither should we. |
robbedvoter |
Feb-05-05 03:36 PM |
#75 |
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Prove it's "tokenism" |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 05:38 PM |
#79 |
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How do you think the GOP has held the WH for the last 36 years, |
marcologico |
Feb-05-05 12:42 PM |
#68 |
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Of course. And, he's managed to do that while promoting a black woman |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 12:49 PM |
#71 |
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"George Bush nominated Condi Rice and Alberto Gonzales..." |
Zhade |
Feb-05-05 03:16 PM |
#73 |
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Couldn't he promote them to a lesser position if he were a racist? |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 05:39 PM |
#80 |
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Rice, Gonzales, Powell, and the rest are basically canon fodder. |
marcologico |
Feb-05-05 05:45 PM |
#82 |
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See my post # 85. |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 05:59 PM |
#86 |
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See my post #87. |
marcologico |
Feb-05-05 06:03 PM |
#88 |
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See my post #89 |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 06:04 PM |
#90 |
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Oh, agreed, it's better to go after him on the class issue. |
Zhade |
Feb-06-05 02:17 AM |
#104 |
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Were he the type to admit error perhaps? |
mzmolly |
Feb-06-05 04:18 PM |
#106 |
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classist? |
niblick |
Feb-05-05 05:35 PM |
#78 |
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He has "classist" policies. |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 05:41 PM |
#81 |
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What's the point of "reframing" racism as classism? To let Shrub off the |
marcologico |
Feb-05-05 05:49 PM |
#83 |
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Call him what you like. But we'll lose the argument unless we eliminate |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 05:59 PM |
#85 |
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The way I see it, the only thing we'll lose is more minority voters. |
marcologico |
Feb-05-05 06:02 PM |
#87 |
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"The only thing" |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 06:03 PM |
#89 |
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Nopity. |
marcologico |
Feb-05-05 06:06 PM |
#91 |
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Were losing "women/hispanics/blacks/ etc... |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 06:08 PM |
#92 |
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"Classism" is a polite diversion. "Racism" is honest and has firepower. |
marcologico |
Feb-05-05 06:11 PM |
#93 |
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"Classim" covers all bases, and brings necessary issues to the forefront. |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 06:14 PM |
#94 |
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"Classism" is how they WANT us to reframe their racism. |
marcologico |
Feb-05-05 06:21 PM |
#95 |
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I couldn't disagree more! They would FEAR us framing the issue as such. |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 06:27 PM |
#96 |
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"Classism" sounds about as fearsome as "classicism," which most people |
marcologico |
Feb-05-05 06:31 PM |
#97 |
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We'll have to agree to disagree. |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 06:52 PM |
#98 |
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..I totally agree... |
kaho |
Feb-09-05 01:30 AM |
#107 |
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Racism shows at the lower income levels |
DemDogs |
Feb-05-05 08:26 PM |
#101 |
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Basically the same. |
mzmolly |
Feb-05-05 09:05 PM |
#102 |
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Hey, I agree |
ComerPerro |
Feb-06-05 02:26 AM |
#105 |
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Agree 100%, Bush isn't a Christian fundie either |
Hippo_Tron |
Feb-09-05 01:48 AM |
#108 |
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