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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #142
146. "disgraceful.".
Edited on Sat Jul-22-06 05:23 PM by petgoat
Measure the damn photos. You are trying to refute a technical argument, which
is easily verifiable or refutable, with a bunch of spitting and fuming.

I point out that you attempt to refute a simple technical point by throwing
at the issue a kitchen sink, a bathroom sink, garage sinks, and the Humboldt

And you call this analysis of your argument a straw man, and then repeat the
argument: "You are the one willfully ignoring ALL OTHER EVIDENCE".

I am not arguing all the evidence. I am arguing about your CNN photo. "All
the evidence" has nothing to do with the measurements on the CNN photo.

And then you advance your own straw man:

You are acting as if the whole argument stands and falls on proving perimeter
column debris existed in the WTC 7 pile.

I am acting in no such way. I simply want to make one simple point: No photos
show WTC1 debris in the WTC7 debris pile, this perimeter column debris is quite
distinctive, and it's surprising that nobody bothered to photograph it because
they did photograph it at WTC6, at WTC3, at WTC4, at WFC, at the Bankers Trust
Building, and at 90 West Street.

It's not something I Photoshopped

I didn't say you did. I said you had failed to provide a source. I'll note you
still haven't provided a source.

the FDNY - that's who you are calling liars in this.

Unlike you, I am not calling anybody a liar. I am pointing out that the FDNY
descriptions of the building damage are completely inconsistent, and FEMA
chose to ignore them and ascribe the collapse to fire damage through some
unknown mechanism.

I will also point out that if FDNY personnel widely believed that explosives had
been planted in the towers, and that if they considered the possibility that the
gov't offices there were wired for self-destruction in case of loss of building
security, they might have been reluctant to go into the building for entirely
understandable reasons. Then when it became politically incorrect to discuss
explosives, under the pressure of explaining why they walked away from an $861
million building, they would be highly motivated to exaggerate the structural
damage, but not dishonest enough to get together and formulate a joint cover

Did you know Rep. Weldon, citing FDNY contacts, gives credence to the reports
of explosives in the twin towers?

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  -Video Evidence Reveals Debris From WTC 1 Collapse Hitting WTC 7 boloboffin  Jul-02-06 05:27 PM   #0 
  - Actually  Popol Vuh   Jul-03-06 04:19 AM   #1 
  - I didn't say it hit the roof.  boloboffin   Jul-03-06 10:42 AM   #7 
  - more pictures from that scene  hpot   Jul-04-06 11:58 AM   #58 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-03-06 05:49 AM   #2 
  - Except no one has ever claimed there was damage to the roof..  hack89   Jul-03-06 08:48 AM   #4 
     - NIST's June 2005 fairy tale about WTC7 claims there was  petgoat   Jul-03-06 03:12 PM   #23 
        - We have been informed by rman  boloboffin   Jul-03-06 04:39 PM   #28 
           - NIST had two photos of WTC7 damage in its 6-04 progress  petgoat   Jul-22-06 05:39 PM   #149 
  - South side of WTC7 is not visible in that video,  rman   Jul-03-06 06:54 AM   #3 
  - What if the whole idea is simply to waste your time, sow seeds of doubt  BuddyYoung   Jul-03-06 08:49 AM   #5 
  - That's probably what it is  rman   Jul-03-06 09:39 AM   #6 
  - What if the whole idea is find out what the truth is?  boloboffin   Jul-03-06 10:56 AM   #10 
  - Go look at the video, rman.  boloboffin   Jul-03-06 10:44 AM   #8 
     - Show us the pictures of "actual damage" to WTC7,  rman   Jul-03-06 10:54 AM   #9 
     - See post #11. No pictures right now, but we'll have video at 11. nt  BuddyYoung   Jul-03-06 10:58 AM   #12 
     - The collapse wasn't symetrical.  boloboffin   Jul-03-06 11:03 AM   #13 
        - so, no pictures of "actual damage"  rman   Jul-03-06 11:35 AM   #15 
        - The collapse wasn't even "near-symmetrical".  boloboffin   Jul-03-06 01:38 PM   #19 
        - Bwahahahahahah..............  jschurchin   Jul-06-06 05:19 AM   #95 
           - Thank you for your observation. n/t  boloboffin   Jul-06-06 12:08 PM   #96 
              - Your Welcome!  jschurchin   Jul-06-06 08:25 PM   #102 
     - That's not all that hit WTC7. I saw a picture of a hammer falling on it.  BuddyYoung   Jul-03-06 10:56 AM   #11 
     - Thank you for your observation. n/t  boloboffin   Jul-03-06 11:03 AM   #14 
     - LOL  rman   Jul-03-06 11:36 AM   #16 
     - Steel?  DoYouEverWonder   Jul-03-06 12:17 PM   #17 
        - I think it WAS steel, but it wasn't Sy Metrecal. Coincidence? U decide.  BuddyYoung   Jul-03-06 12:45 PM   #18 
     - Anybody walking around Ground Zero and wondering what  petgoat   Jul-03-06 03:30 PM   #24 
        - Sorry, I meant FEMA disses the structural damage hypothesis nt  petgoat   Jul-03-06 05:44 PM   #32 
        - That's a precarious pile of unsupported bales you've erected...  Jazz2006   Jul-03-06 08:59 PM   #42 
           - I guess you never heard of the fictitious "reasonable person,"  petgoat   Jul-03-06 09:32 PM   #43 
              - Au contraire...  Jazz2006   Jul-04-06 01:49 AM   #46 
                 - "I know all about the 'reasonable person' test "  petgoat   Jul-04-06 03:10 AM   #47 
                    - Pfft.  Jazz2006   Jul-04-06 03:14 AM   #48 
                       - For the third time, please explain how my construct falls down.  petgoat   Jul-04-06 03:21 AM   #49 
                          - Nice try, once again  Jazz2006   Jul-04-06 03:25 AM   #50 
                             - What is nonsensical about the proposition that a  petgoat   Jul-04-06 03:37 AM   #52 
                                - You're still trying to distance yourself from your post...  Jazz2006   Jul-04-06 03:41 AM   #53 
                                   - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-04-06 03:44 AM   #54 
                                      - Still no substance, still no answers.  petgoat   Jul-04-06 04:00 AM   #55 
                                         - Your initial construct was faulty  Jazz2006   Jul-04-06 06:13 PM   #59 
                                            - I know you were dying to giving substantive answers, and it must really  BuddyYoung   Jul-04-06 07:26 PM   #60 
                                               - Cute.  Jazz2006   Jul-04-06 11:00 PM   #61 
                                                  - Still no substantive criticism of the construct, only labelling.  petgoat   Jul-04-06 11:23 PM   #62 
                                                     - You can ask as many times as you like... the answer remains the same.  Jazz2006   Jul-04-06 11:26 PM   #63 
                                                     - "You assert as a fact"  petgoat   Jul-04-06 11:50 PM   #64 
                                                     - You did, actually.  Jazz2006   Jul-05-06 12:09 AM   #65 
                                                     - The asssumption that a reasonable person would have  petgoat   Jul-05-06 12:42 AM   #66 
                                                     - Lol. Nice try yet again.  Jazz2006   Jul-05-06 12:51 AM   #67 
                                                     - "assumptions with no basis in fact."  petgoat   Jul-05-06 01:35 PM   #68 
                                                     - Umm. It's my OP.  boloboffin   Jul-05-06 02:09 PM   #69 
                                                     - Right you are. I had two tabs open and got confused  petgoat   Jul-05-06 02:18 PM   #70 
                                                     - Remind me what the substantive issue is again? n/t  boloboffin   Jul-05-06 02:24 PM   #71 
                                                     - Thanks for asking. I know, the spam-attack makes it difficult to find.  petgoat   Jul-05-06 02:39 PM   #72 
                                                     - The south wall fell over on top of the whole pile.  boloboffin   Jul-05-06 03:03 PM   #73 
                                                     - They took the pile apart, piece by piece. They loaded the  petgoat   Jul-05-06 03:41 PM   #74 
                                                     - I think we cannot prove the official story is false  Hope2006   Jul-05-06 03:52 PM   #75 
                                                     - Which brings us back to the OP  boloboffin   Jul-05-06 04:15 PM   #76 
                                                     - There is no evidence of this debris.  petgoat   Jul-05-06 04:26 PM   #78 
                                                     - Provide me with your sourcing for "firemen fearful of CD in WTC 7".  boloboffin   Jul-05-06 04:55 PM   #79 
                                                     - There is of course no source for that. The whole concept  petgoat   Jul-05-06 05:03 PM   #81 
                                                     - So you pulled that completely out of your...  boloboffin   Jul-05-06 05:09 PM   #82 
                                                     - thank you for your sharing n/t  Hope2006   Jul-05-06 06:27 PM   #85 
                                                     - "we cannot prove the official story is false"  petgoat   Jul-05-06 04:22 PM   #77 
                                                     - So...  boloboffin   Jul-05-06 05:01 PM   #80 
                                                     - ..  petgoat   Jul-05-06 06:14 PM   #83 
                                                     - Oops. My mistake.  boloboffin   Jul-06-06 12:07 AM   #89 
                                                     - WOW, good eye! Yes, those pictures will make you see  petgoat   Jul-06-06 02:23 AM   #92 
                                                     - Screen captures:  boloboffin   Jul-06-06 02:38 AM   #93 
                                                     - Bolo, these photos are such a coup, I'm really surprised  petgoat   Jul-10-06 04:21 PM   #122 
                                                     - Yes, and then I reposted it in a wrapup post further down.  boloboffin   Jul-10-06 04:28 PM   #124 
                                                     - I don't think you got what I had to say n/t  Hope2006   Jul-05-06 06:24 PM   #84 
                                                     - I got it, I just don't agree with it.  petgoat   Jul-06-06 12:03 AM   #87 
                                                     - I am surprised at you  Hope2006   Jul-05-06 06:39 PM   #86 
                                                     - I am calling for an independent investigation, nt  petgoat   Jul-06-06 12:04 AM   #88 
                                                     - Good to hear, and thank you! n/t  Hope2006   Jul-06-06 03:39 AM   #94 
                                                     - I've been thinking about what you asked here  Hope2006   Jul-07-06 03:15 PM   #115 
                                                     - "we need an "independent" criminal investigation. "  petgoat   Jul-07-06 03:31 PM   #116 
                                                     - I do not disagree with anything you are saying  Hope2006   Jul-07-06 03:58 PM   #117 
                                                     - I like to add a couple of more people to the list  DrDebug   Jul-09-06 02:50 PM   #120 
                                                     - Re #72 (hard to tell which posts are responding to which when it gets  Jazz2006   Jul-06-06 01:01 AM   #91 
  - "so, no pictures of actual damage"  Popol Vuh   Jul-03-06 02:08 PM   #20 
  - It didn't "fail at exactly the same time". That is false information!  boloboffin   Jul-03-06 02:14 PM   #21 
     - So what you're trying to say is:  Popol Vuh   Jul-03-06 02:48 PM   #22 
        - Stop restating/rewording what I say and deal with what I say.  boloboffin   Jul-03-06 04:07 PM   #25 
           - This may have been discussed  Hope2006   Jul-03-06 04:11 PM   #26 
           - And discussed and discussed and discussed and discussed  boloboffin   Jul-03-06 04:17 PM   #27 
              - So, if "pull it" meant getting all firefighters out of the building  Hope2006   Jul-03-06 04:41 PM   #29 
              - I thought that was a policeman.  boloboffin   Jul-03-06 04:44 PM   #30 
                 - Regardless, policeman or fireman  Hope2006   Jul-03-06 04:48 PM   #31 
                    - What are you talking about?  Jazz2006   Jul-08-06 02:39 AM   #118 
              - "Pull out" and "pull it" are two different things. nt  petgoat   Jul-03-06 06:00 PM   #34 
              - Only in bed (n/t)  vincent_vega_lives   Jul-25-06 12:47 PM   #157 
              - But notice  Popol Vuh   Jul-03-06 06:07 PM   #36 
                 - Of course it doesn't make grammatical sense  Hope2006   Jul-03-06 06:17 PM   #37 
                    - Pull It  vincent_vega_lives   Jul-25-06 12:50 PM   #158 
           - No restating/rewording....Just concluding.  Popol Vuh   Jul-03-06 05:46 PM   #33 
           - FEMA's assumption that the seismic reading reflects  petgoat   Jul-03-06 06:04 PM   #35 
  - very convincing  New World Odor   Jul-03-06 06:54 PM   #38 
  - What are those trails of exhaust-like dust behind the projectiles?  petgoat   Jul-03-06 07:21 PM   #39 
  - Eyewitness accounts of heavy damage to WTC7  hack89   Jul-03-06 07:46 PM   #40 
  - The descriptions are all over the map.  petgoat   Jul-03-06 09:42 PM   #44 
     - Not your strongest comeback ever ...  hack89   Jul-04-06 06:35 AM   #57 
  - I count at least 50 explosions on this as a bonus  DemInDistress   Jul-03-06 07:52 PM   #41 
  - I see a lot of breaking windows  psychopomp   Jul-03-06 11:55 PM   #45 
  - what is that "flash" within the debris collapsing? Look close  DemInDistress   Jul-04-06 03:32 AM   #51 
  - I don't know what they are but all of your references are to the  psychopomp   Jul-04-06 04:08 AM   #56 
  - FWIW, I wrote about the 'small fires & no damage' myth at WTC 7  PerpetualYnquisitive   Jul-06-06 12:20 AM   #90 
  - A very productive thread so far.  boloboffin   Jul-06-06 01:52 PM   #97 
  - I'll see your petty debris near WTC 7 & raise you....  PerpetualYnquisitive   Jul-06-06 04:50 PM   #98 
  - Good God Almighty.  boloboffin   Jul-06-06 05:09 PM   #99 
  - From my secret 'stash',  PerpetualYnquisitive   Jul-06-06 05:21 PM   #100 
  - In other words, you refuse to provide the source?  petgoat   Jul-07-06 01:58 AM   #103 
     - Now why would you make such an accusation?  PerpetualYnquisitive   Jul-07-06 08:51 AM   #105 
        - I rather doubt the picture appears in "The Murder of Christ"  petgoat   Jul-07-06 09:59 AM   #106 
           - As I previously stated, "Pay attention."  PerpetualYnquisitive   Jul-07-06 10:20 AM   #107 
              - So your source is a DVD cited in a guy's analysis of  petgoat   Jul-07-06 10:32 AM   #109 
                 - My source is NOT a DVD cited in a guy's analysis of  PerpetualYnquisitive   Jul-07-06 11:08 AM   #111 
                    - Your source is alleged TV footage. Give it to NIST. They're  petgoat   Jul-07-06 12:10 PM   #112 
                       - Well.  boloboffin   Jul-07-06 12:24 PM   #113 
                          - It is a screenshot that I took,  PerpetualYnquisitive   Jul-07-06 12:49 PM   #114 
  - See the very bottom of this link.  PerpetualYnquisitive   Jul-06-06 07:18 PM   #101 
  - South face damage seems to line up with this,  PerpetualYnquisitive   Jul-07-06 10:39 AM   #110 
  - Great work Perpetually!....that is a ground breakin' foto! n/t  seatnineb   Jul-21-06 05:46 AM   #136 
  - Thanks.  PerpetualYnquisitive   Jul-23-06 10:14 AM   #151 
  - Source video clip available.  PerpetualYnquisitive   Aug-23-06 09:06 PM   #159 
  - Windows Media Player doesn't reproduce Quicktime's  petgoat   Jul-07-06 02:24 AM   #104 
  - Try CaptureWizPro. It can screen grab anything, from any source,  Progs Rock   Jul-09-06 04:22 AM   #119 
  - Post Office debris is from WTC7  petgoat   Jul-07-06 10:25 AM   #108 
  - I have the same problems in IE with WMP as I do in Firefox.  boloboffin   Jul-10-06 11:59 AM   #121 
  - That "layered" thing is the problem I had in Quicktime.  petgoat   Jul-10-06 04:22 PM   #123 
     - Not quite what happened to me.  boloboffin   Jul-10-06 04:40 PM   #125 
        - Yes, I've noticed the same thing  salvorhardin   Jul-10-06 07:32 PM   #126 
  - I'm not convinced that's a tower perimeter tree  petgoat   Jul-20-06 03:44 PM   #127 
  - And confirmation bias wins again!  boloboffin   Jul-20-06 04:36 PM   #128 
     - How bout it? It's in the street. There's no evidence it hit  petgoat   Jul-20-06 05:02 PM   #129 
        - Petgoat, you disappoint me profoundly.  boloboffin   Jul-20-06 05:07 PM   #130 
           - It's a reasonable doubt, given:  petgoat   Jul-20-06 05:29 PM   #131 
           - You have, on purpose, destroyed the resolution on those photographs  boloboffin   Jul-20-06 05:35 PM   #132 
              - They were taken from full-screen Windows Media screenshots.  petgoat   Jul-20-06 05:41 PM   #133 
           - I disappoint you? IOW, you haven't got a source for the photo? nt  petgoat   Jul-21-06 10:11 PM   #137 
  - Wow! Another obvious pod!  mhatrw   Jul-20-06 06:53 PM   #135 
  - That's NOT a WTC1 perimeter column tree  petgoat   Jul-22-06 11:34 AM   #138 
     - Bullshit.  boloboffin   Jul-22-06 12:35 PM   #139 
        - When you produced that CNN photo I was quick to  petgoat   Jul-22-06 01:21 PM   #140 
           - Disgraceful, it remains.  boloboffin   Jul-22-06 02:55 PM   #142 
              - "disgraceful.".  petgoat   Jul-22-06 05:16 PM   #146 
              - Your demo proves my point. Put a 3X5 card on the screen.  petgoat   Jul-23-06 11:34 AM   #152 
                 - You are no longer worth the time to refute you.  boloboffin   Jul-23-06 01:25 PM   #153 
                    - IOW, you're not going to answer the questions, provide the source,  petgoat   Jul-23-06 01:34 PM   #154 
                       - Is THAT how/why so many messages get David Copperfielded?  BuddyYoung   Jul-23-06 02:26 PM   #155 
  - Yep. You can see that pod hit WTC-7 from a mile away! n/t  mhatrw   Jul-20-06 06:51 PM   #134 
  - bolo, do you know how telephoto lenses work?  petgoat   Jul-22-06 02:21 PM   #141 
  - Your post contains an outright lie, petgoat.  boloboffin   Jul-22-06 02:58 PM   #143 
  - You should try measuring sometime before you call "liar," bolo  petgoat   Jul-22-06 04:08 PM   #144 
     - Riiiiight.  boloboffin   Jul-22-06 04:26 PM   #145 
        - Measure the photos. Provide other Quicktime frames  petgoat   Jul-22-06 05:18 PM   #147 
           - Petgoat, what you see before you is the curb.  boloboffin   Jul-23-06 12:05 AM   #150 
  - You didn't answer the question. Do you realize that the tele lenses  petgoat   Jul-22-06 05:29 PM   #148 
  - Confirmation bias once again.  petgoat   Jul-23-06 05:46 PM   #156 
  - kick n/t  Jazz2006   Aug-28-06 04:14 AM   #160 
  - kick nt  greyl   Jan-21-07 09:04 PM   #161 

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