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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
101. I don't think they are hiding it...
Edited on Sun Aug-14-05 06:35 PM by mikelewis
The NIST talks about the fires in this publication. Pages 43 and 44.

"Significant Fires Prior to September 11, 2001 Significant Fires Prior to September 11, 2001
FDNY provided information from 397 operations fire reports from 1970 to 2001 and 112 fire
investigation records from 1977 to 2001; PANYNJ records destroyed during collapse of WTC 1.
Most significant incidents:
Major 1975 fire in WTC 1 prior to installation of sprinklers.
1993 bombing in B-1 level below south face of WTC 1.
47 other substantial fires; activated a sprinkler or required hoses to suppress:
16 exercised multiple sprinklers or standpipe connected hoses (with or without at least one
sprinkler activation);
12 in WTC 1, 3 in WTC 2, and 1 in WTC 7.
12 fires occurred between 6 pm and 4 am; remainder included 2 dumpster fires, 1 kitchen fire, and 1
overheating of fan motor bearing.
5 unlisted/unclassified, 6 suspicious/incendiary, 2 discarded material, 3 electrical/mechanical failure.
Only two fires extended to as much as 15% of the space on the floor.
31 fires involved use of one standpipe hose or one hose and discharge of one sprinkler.
23 in WTC 1, 7 in WTC 2
Available evidence suggests that no fire activated more than 3 sprinklers in areas protected by
automatic sprinklers.
"
http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/WTC%20Part%20IV%20-%20Life%20S ...

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  -Thermal image taken shortly after the plane crash in WTC Ice4Clark  Aug-07-05 11:18 PM   #0 
  - Surely someone would have looked for a part number  philb   Aug-07-05 11:53 PM   #1 
  - The fires weren't that hot. Particularly since most of the fuel burned up  spooked911   Aug-08-05 02:22 PM   #2 
  - According to the first color image,  janedoe   Aug-08-05 03:11 PM   #3 
  - How far away from the building was the picture taken?  hack89   Aug-08-05 03:46 PM   #5 
  - Excellent question  LARED   Aug-08-05 08:15 PM   #7 
  - You really believe that?  vincent_vega_lives   Aug-12-05 07:41 AM   #56 
     - Campfires burn at 400 to 600 degrees C.  petgoat   Aug-14-05 03:53 PM   #98 
        - Here's a hot campfire :-)  janedoe   Aug-14-05 04:59 PM   #99 
           - It's a Raging Inferno, LOL! n/t  petgoat   Aug-14-05 06:09 PM   #100 
              - Melting Airplane Engines  janedoe   Aug-14-05 06:34 PM   #102 
                 - It depends on what nationality starts the fire, of course...  mikelewis   Aug-17-05 07:56 AM   #131 
                    - It's not what nationality starts the fire, silly.  janedoe   Aug-17-05 10:33 AM   #132 
  - Nonsense  hack89   Aug-08-05 03:40 PM   #4 
     - You don't know much about office buidlings, do you?  pox americana   Aug-08-05 07:53 PM   #6 
     - You don't know much about sprinkler systems do you  LARED   Aug-08-05 08:19 PM   #8 
     - I know enough to see that FEMA is lying, as usual.  pox americana   Aug-08-05 09:53 PM   #11 
     - You really should do some research before responding  LARED   Aug-09-05 07:11 AM   #17 
        - Speaking of critical thinking, the reports you keep citing are unreliable,  pox americana   Aug-09-05 07:48 AM   #18 
           - The bottom line is that the sprinkler systems were not  LARED   Aug-09-05 08:08 AM   #19 
           - Isn't it ironic  janedoe   Aug-09-05 08:14 AM   #20 
              - Ironic wasn't the word I had in mind  LARED   Aug-09-05 08:31 AM   #21 
                 - Until you show me the system specifications  pox americana   Aug-09-05 11:49 AM   #22 
                    - Sorry, I'm not doing your homework for you  LARED   Aug-09-05 02:30 PM   #24 
                       - Standards are not specifications.  pox americana   Aug-09-05 07:40 PM   #27 
                          - Well, that true, but is there a point in telling us this?  LARED   Aug-09-05 07:58 PM   #28 
                          - You're telling me you don't know the difference  pox americana   Aug-09-05 08:15 PM   #29 
                             - Wow, did you make all that up yourself  LARED   Aug-09-05 08:21 PM   #30 
                                - I don't make stuff up, and I had lots of help.  pox americana   Aug-09-05 11:07 PM   #35 
                          - The specs aren't what you want either  AZCat   Aug-10-05 03:44 PM   #37 
                             - Yes, they are.  pox americana   Aug-10-05 10:08 PM   #41 
                                - Actually, I write specs all the time.  AZCat   Aug-10-05 10:18 PM   #43 
                                   - Ahem, we're talking about NYC, not the O K Corral.  pox americana   Aug-10-05 10:35 PM   #44 
                                      - Doesn't matter  AZCat   Aug-10-05 10:52 PM   #45 
                                         - Sure. But we're talking about a fire sprinkler system.  pox americana   Aug-10-05 11:17 PM   #46 
     - Actually, that's not entirely correct  mikelewis   Aug-11-05 06:19 PM   #48 
        - very helpful!  pox americana   Aug-11-05 09:52 PM   #49 
        - What does all out operation mean?  LARED   Aug-12-05 05:01 AM   #54 
           - All of them...  mikelewis   Aug-12-05 04:57 PM   #63 
              - Thanks for your response  LARED   Aug-12-05 06:54 PM   #64 
                 - That's not correct...  mikelewis   Aug-12-05 11:56 PM   #67 
                    - A question  LARED   Aug-13-05 07:11 AM   #68 
                    - Yes  mikelewis   Aug-13-05 08:11 AM   #69 
                    - I have an older copy of NFPA 13 at work  LARED   Aug-13-05 08:39 AM   #70 
                    - I'm not disputing your estimate, I just wonder where you derived this...  mikelewis   Aug-13-05 03:18 PM   #78 
                    - What do you make of this?  Make7   Aug-13-05 09:26 AM   #71 
                    - It means mikelewis is right and the FEMA/NIST reports are horseshit.  pox americana   Aug-13-05 10:12 AM   #72 
                       - Can you elaborate on that?  LARED   Aug-13-05 10:15 AM   #73 
                          - I could, but I'm not going to belabor the obvious.  pox americana   Aug-13-05 10:23 AM   #74 
                             - Translated as  LARED   Aug-13-05 10:25 AM   #75 
                                - Clue: "multiple supply lines, pumps, tanks, and backup delivery systems."  pox americana   Aug-13-05 10:28 AM   #76 
                                   - Slowly sound out the words  LARED   Aug-13-05 01:39 PM   #77 
                                      - "The other side"? You mean the Bush-Cheney noise machine?  pox americana   Aug-14-05 02:31 AM   #81 
                                      - No, the other side are those that read AND comprehend (n/t)  LARED   Aug-14-05 06:14 AM   #82 
                    - The nature of a fire sprinkler system...  mikelewis   Aug-13-05 04:25 PM   #79 
                    - Causes of failure...  mikelewis   Aug-13-05 06:19 PM   #80 
                    - FIREFIGHTER WILLIAM GREEN  Make7   Aug-14-05 11:10 AM   #88 
                       - Let's see, "the water was falling down like rapids, ankle deep."  pox americana   Aug-14-05 12:02 PM   #90 
                       - I don't believe it was coached at all...  mikelewis   Aug-14-05 12:36 PM   #93 
                       - The pipes that lead to the floors are in core....  mikelewis   Aug-14-05 12:18 PM   #92 
                          - The reason I posted the Firefighter interview....  Make7   Aug-14-05 08:50 PM   #110 
                    - mikelewis; please review these links and  LARED   Aug-14-05 07:16 AM   #83 
                       - Google isn't going to restore your credibility or Bush's  pox americana   Aug-14-05 07:44 AM   #84 
                       - Let me guess  LARED   Aug-14-05 07:50 AM   #85 
                       - I'm not sure what your asking...  mikelewis   Aug-14-05 09:40 AM   #86 
                          - This is where we disagree  LARED   Aug-14-05 01:43 PM   #95 
                             - 2 systems, 4 supply lines, 5 pumps, and 6 5,000-gallon tanks  pox americana   Aug-14-05 03:46 PM   #97 
                                - So how does  LARED   Aug-14-05 08:00 PM   #105 
                                   - Show me the specs and I'll tell you.  pox americana   Aug-14-05 08:26 PM   #108 
                                      - What spec's are you looking for? (n/t)  LARED   Aug-14-05 09:47 PM   #111 
                                         - The system specifications, obviously. n/t  pox americana   Aug-15-05 01:50 PM   #117 
                                            - You think the system specs will tell you how  LARED   Aug-15-05 03:10 PM   #118 
                                            - They'll show how much the system could deliver and for how long, yes,  pox americana   Aug-15-05 03:34 PM   #119 
                                            - Thank you for making my point. I agree they are inaccurate  LARED   Aug-15-05 04:05 PM   #121 
                                            - If your point is that NIST is feeding baloney to fools, you're welcome.  pox americana   Aug-15-05 04:11 PM   #122 
                                            - Another well reasoned reply, (n/t)  LARED   Aug-15-05 05:02 PM   #123 
                                            - LARED, you obviously don't know about the 15M gallon water tank at the WTC  MercutioATC   Aug-15-05 05:09 PM   #126 
                    - NFPA standards online.  Make7   Aug-14-05 10:52 AM   #87 
                       - Okay... if you go to Chapter 11 Section 2....  mikelewis   Aug-14-05 11:37 AM   #89 
                          - Past and present standards.  Make7   Aug-14-05 12:08 PM   #91 
                             - They have to meet the current standards of when the sprinkler system...  mikelewis   Aug-14-05 12:45 PM   #94 
                                - Thanks. ( n/t )  Make7   Aug-14-05 08:41 PM   #109 
                                - Mike, I really appreciate you bringing your expertise to this forum  petgoat   Aug-15-05 05:05 PM   #124 
     - A small electric short circuit started a blaze  hack89   Aug-08-05 10:17 PM   #13 
     - The Windsor building was concrete framed, burned 24 hrs, did not collapse,  pox americana   Aug-08-05 10:47 PM   #14 
        - But it was packed with flammable materials...  hack89   Aug-09-05 02:09 PM   #23 
           - It was undergoing renovation  pox americana   Aug-09-05 07:38 PM   #26 
              - There was about 60 tons per floor of flammable material in the WTC...  hack89   Aug-09-05 08:45 PM   #32 
                 - That's why they had automatic sprinklers.  pox americana   Aug-09-05 11:05 PM   #34 
                 - And how did the sprinklers survive the impact?  hack89   Aug-10-05 07:40 PM   #39 
                    - Just like the rest of the structure did.  pox americana   Aug-10-05 10:12 PM   #42 
                       - Your contention is not believable...  hack89   Aug-11-05 03:44 PM   #47 
                          - That doesn't make it any less true.  pox americana   Aug-11-05 09:57 PM   #50 
                             - Interesting way to concede the point but thanks. n/t  hack89   Aug-11-05 10:06 PM   #51 
                                - May I suggest the purchase of an English dictionary. n/t  pox americana   Aug-11-05 10:12 PM   #52 
                                   - When you respond to a reasoned statement..  hack89   Aug-11-05 10:18 PM   #53 
                 - Sure.  stickdog   Aug-12-05 08:39 AM   #59 
                    - Read this .. do the math..  hack89   Aug-12-05 11:02 AM   #62 
                       - Look at this, then get a clue.  stickdog   Aug-12-05 08:05 PM   #66 
                       - Actually, since the building was only 30% occupied at best...  mikelewis   Aug-14-05 07:34 PM   #103 
                          - 30% occupied?  petgoat   Aug-14-05 07:38 PM   #104 
                          - The WTC was only 30% occupied? At best?  LARED   Aug-14-05 08:03 PM   #106 
                             - Before I show you mine, you show me yours...  mikelewis   Aug-14-05 11:34 PM   #112 
                                - And I just discovered that I was wrong, it wasn't 30%.. can you guess...  mikelewis   Aug-14-05 11:41 PM   #113 
                                - I thought in your previous post you meant tenant occupancy.  Make7   Aug-14-05 11:45 PM   #114 
                                   - How many tenants were there?  mikelewis   Aug-15-05 12:22 AM   #115 
                                      - Two hundred eighty.  Make7   Aug-15-05 03:17 AM   #116 
                                         - How many people worked in the towers? You're best guess.  mikelewis   Aug-17-05 02:00 AM   #128 
                                            - Thirty Seven Thousand Six Hundred Twenty Nine.  Make7   Aug-17-05 02:13 AM   #129 
                                               - And what are you basing this guess on?  mikelewis   Aug-17-05 07:52 AM   #130 
                                               - The percentage of total available square footage of ...  Make7   Aug-18-05 06:29 AM   #134 
                                               - test  spooked911   Aug-17-05 11:23 AM   #133 
     - WTC  sabbat hunter   Aug-15-05 04:00 PM   #120 
     - previous wtc fires  slaveplanet   Aug-08-05 09:28 PM   #9 
     - You Got to be Kidding...  carlvs   Aug-08-05 09:54 PM   #12 
     - I don't think they are hiding it...  mikelewis   Aug-14-05 06:34 PM   #101 
     - "none of them caught fire"/"catastrophic fires"  petgoat   Aug-08-05 11:07 PM   #15 
     - Supposedly...  Make7   Aug-09-05 12:54 AM   #16 
        - Yes, that guy is sampling steel.  petgoat   Aug-09-05 04:36 PM   #25 
           - The sulfur came from gypsum in the wall board.  hack89   Aug-09-05 08:39 PM   #31 
           - The Expert Metallurgists Don't Know Where the Sulfur Came From.  petgoat   Aug-10-05 01:29 AM   #36 
              - It wasn't explosives or detonators  hack89   Aug-10-05 07:05 PM   #38 
                 - I HATE disinformation.  stickdog   Aug-12-05 07:43 PM   #65 
           - I suppose...  Make7   Aug-10-05 07:48 PM   #40 
     - You are speculating. Where is a shred of EVIDENCE that ANY  stickdog   Aug-12-05 08:35 AM   #57 
  - There was a part which landed on a rooftop  undeterred   Aug-08-05 09:30 PM   #10 
  - Mechanical Eng. debunks official story of WTC  philb   Aug-09-05 11:01 PM   #33 
     - It's only regurgitated CT sophistry (n/t)  LARED   Aug-12-05 07:21 AM   #55 
        - That's telling 'em.  stickdog   Aug-12-05 08:36 AM   #58 
           - What kind of reply would you expect?  LARED   Aug-12-05 08:45 AM   #60 
              - That only works when your views fit in with their theories. ( n/t )  Make7   Aug-12-05 08:49 AM   #61 
              - LARED, ASME, ME. There you go, am I now more believable  petgoat   Aug-14-05 01:58 PM   #96 
                 - Is petgoat your real name?  LARED   Aug-14-05 08:08 PM   #107 
                    - I'm not claiming "petgoat, ASME, ME" gives me credibility n/t  petgoat   Aug-15-05 05:08 PM   #125 
                       - Is it safe to assume you believe that because  LARED   Aug-15-05 08:00 PM   #127 
 

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