petgoat
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Tue Aug-09-05 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #16 |
| 25. Yes, that guy is sampling steel. |
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Your first link says they recovered 150 pieces.
Your second link to the FEMA Appendix C citing high temperatures in the steel is asserted in Jim Hoffman's site to show evidence of explosives because of the magnitude of the oxidative attack and the presence of high amounts of non-native sulfer.
I suppose the WTC tower sample from the Appendix C is the one NIST refers to when it says that one of its 3 (out of 170) samples of perimeter columns that showed evidence of heating above 250 degrees C they considered to have experienced its heating in the context of being cooked after the collapse.
NIST does not have any core steel showing heating above 250 degrees C. And of their perimeter column samples, only 2 of 170 show heating above 250 degrees C. Now supposedly these guys were looking for the steel that showed what happened. But they didn't get it. Why not?
They were lazy? There was no heating above 250? Somebody took the pieces that showed what happened?
The FEMA Appendix C report you cited expressed the wish that the researchers be allowed to do further study of mysterious oxidative erosion and the mysterious sulfer. Does anyone know if they ever did a followup report?
|
| -Thermal image taken shortly after the plane crash in WTC |
Ice4Clark |
Aug-07-05 11:18 PM |
#0 |
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Surely someone would have looked for a part number |
philb |
Aug-07-05 11:53 PM |
#1 |
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The fires weren't that hot. Particularly since most of the fuel burned up |
spooked911 |
Aug-08-05 02:22 PM |
#2 |
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According to the first color image, |
janedoe |
Aug-08-05 03:11 PM |
#3 |
  -
How far away from the building was the picture taken? |
hack89 |
Aug-08-05 03:46 PM |
#5 |
   -
Excellent question |
LARED |
Aug-08-05 08:15 PM |
#7 |
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You really believe that? |
vincent_vega_lives |
Aug-12-05 07:41 AM |
#56 |
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Campfires burn at 400 to 600 degrees C. |
petgoat |
Aug-14-05 03:53 PM |
#98 |
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Here's a hot campfire :-) |
janedoe |
Aug-14-05 04:59 PM |
#99 |
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It's a Raging Inferno, LOL! n/t |
petgoat |
Aug-14-05 06:09 PM |
#100 |
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Melting Airplane Engines |
janedoe |
Aug-14-05 06:34 PM |
#102 |
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It depends on what nationality starts the fire, of course... |
mikelewis |
Aug-17-05 07:56 AM |
#131 |
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It's not what nationality starts the fire, silly. |
janedoe |
Aug-17-05 10:33 AM |
#132 |
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Nonsense |
hack89 |
Aug-08-05 03:40 PM |
#4 |
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You don't know much about office buidlings, do you? |
pox americana |
Aug-08-05 07:53 PM |
#6 |
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You don't know much about sprinkler systems do you |
LARED |
Aug-08-05 08:19 PM |
#8 |
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I know enough to see that FEMA is lying, as usual. |
pox americana |
Aug-08-05 09:53 PM |
#11 |
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You really should do some research before responding |
LARED |
Aug-09-05 07:11 AM |
#17 |
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Speaking of critical thinking, the reports you keep citing are unreliable, |
pox americana |
Aug-09-05 07:48 AM |
#18 |
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The bottom line is that the sprinkler systems were not |
LARED |
Aug-09-05 08:08 AM |
#19 |
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Isn't it ironic |
janedoe |
Aug-09-05 08:14 AM |
#20 |
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Ironic wasn't the word I had in mind |
LARED |
Aug-09-05 08:31 AM |
#21 |
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Until you show me the system specifications |
pox americana |
Aug-09-05 11:49 AM |
#22 |
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Sorry, I'm not doing your homework for you |
LARED |
Aug-09-05 02:30 PM |
#24 |
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Standards are not specifications. |
pox americana |
Aug-09-05 07:40 PM |
#27 |
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Well, that true, but is there a point in telling us this? |
LARED |
Aug-09-05 07:58 PM |
#28 |
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You're telling me you don't know the difference |
pox americana |
Aug-09-05 08:15 PM |
#29 |
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Wow, did you make all that up yourself |
LARED |
Aug-09-05 08:21 PM |
#30 |
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I don't make stuff up, and I had lots of help. |
pox americana |
Aug-09-05 11:07 PM |
#35 |
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The specs aren't what you want either |
AZCat |
Aug-10-05 03:44 PM |
#37 |
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Yes, they are. |
pox americana |
Aug-10-05 10:08 PM |
#41 |
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Actually, I write specs all the time. |
AZCat |
Aug-10-05 10:18 PM |
#43 |
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Ahem, we're talking about NYC, not the O K Corral. |
pox americana |
Aug-10-05 10:35 PM |
#44 |
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Doesn't matter |
AZCat |
Aug-10-05 10:52 PM |
#45 |
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Sure. But we're talking about a fire sprinkler system. |
pox americana |
Aug-10-05 11:17 PM |
#46 |
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Actually, that's not entirely correct |
mikelewis |
Aug-11-05 06:19 PM |
#48 |
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very helpful! |
pox americana |
Aug-11-05 09:52 PM |
#49 |
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What does all out operation mean? |
LARED |
Aug-12-05 05:01 AM |
#54 |
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All of them... |
mikelewis |
Aug-12-05 04:57 PM |
#63 |
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Thanks for your response |
LARED |
Aug-12-05 06:54 PM |
#64 |
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That's not correct... |
mikelewis |
Aug-12-05 11:56 PM |
#67 |
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A question |
LARED |
Aug-13-05 07:11 AM |
#68 |
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Yes |
mikelewis |
Aug-13-05 08:11 AM |
#69 |
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I have an older copy of NFPA 13 at work |
LARED |
Aug-13-05 08:39 AM |
#70 |
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I'm not disputing your estimate, I just wonder where you derived this... |
mikelewis |
Aug-13-05 03:18 PM |
#78 |
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What do you make of this? |
Make7 |
Aug-13-05 09:26 AM |
#71 |
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It means mikelewis is right and the FEMA/NIST reports are horseshit. |
pox americana |
Aug-13-05 10:12 AM |
#72 |
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Can you elaborate on that? |
LARED |
Aug-13-05 10:15 AM |
#73 |
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I could, but I'm not going to belabor the obvious. |
pox americana |
Aug-13-05 10:23 AM |
#74 |
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Translated as |
LARED |
Aug-13-05 10:25 AM |
#75 |
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Clue: "multiple supply lines, pumps, tanks, and backup delivery systems." |
pox americana |
Aug-13-05 10:28 AM |
#76 |
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Slowly sound out the words |
LARED |
Aug-13-05 01:39 PM |
#77 |
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"The other side"? You mean the Bush-Cheney noise machine? |
pox americana |
Aug-14-05 02:31 AM |
#81 |
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No, the other side are those that read AND comprehend (n/t) |
LARED |
Aug-14-05 06:14 AM |
#82 |
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The nature of a fire sprinkler system... |
mikelewis |
Aug-13-05 04:25 PM |
#79 |
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Causes of failure... |
mikelewis |
Aug-13-05 06:19 PM |
#80 |
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FIREFIGHTER WILLIAM GREEN |
Make7 |
Aug-14-05 11:10 AM |
#88 |
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Let's see, "the water was falling down like rapids, ankle deep." |
pox americana |
Aug-14-05 12:02 PM |
#90 |
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I don't believe it was coached at all... |
mikelewis |
Aug-14-05 12:36 PM |
#93 |
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The pipes that lead to the floors are in core.... |
mikelewis |
Aug-14-05 12:18 PM |
#92 |
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The reason I posted the Firefighter interview.... |
Make7 |
Aug-14-05 08:50 PM |
#110 |
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mikelewis; please review these links and |
LARED |
Aug-14-05 07:16 AM |
#83 |
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Google isn't going to restore your credibility or Bush's |
pox americana |
Aug-14-05 07:44 AM |
#84 |
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Let me guess |
LARED |
Aug-14-05 07:50 AM |
#85 |
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I'm not sure what your asking... |
mikelewis |
Aug-14-05 09:40 AM |
#86 |
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This is where we disagree |
LARED |
Aug-14-05 01:43 PM |
#95 |
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2 systems, 4 supply lines, 5 pumps, and 6 5,000-gallon tanks |
pox americana |
Aug-14-05 03:46 PM |
#97 |
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So how does |
LARED |
Aug-14-05 08:00 PM |
#105 |
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Show me the specs and I'll tell you. |
pox americana |
Aug-14-05 08:26 PM |
#108 |
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What spec's are you looking for? (n/t) |
LARED |
Aug-14-05 09:47 PM |
#111 |
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The system specifications, obviously. n/t |
pox americana |
Aug-15-05 01:50 PM |
#117 |
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You think the system specs will tell you how |
LARED |
Aug-15-05 03:10 PM |
#118 |
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They'll show how much the system could deliver and for how long, yes, |
pox americana |
Aug-15-05 03:34 PM |
#119 |
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Thank you for making my point. I agree they are inaccurate |
LARED |
Aug-15-05 04:05 PM |
#121 |
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If your point is that NIST is feeding baloney to fools, you're welcome. |
pox americana |
Aug-15-05 04:11 PM |
#122 |
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Another well reasoned reply, (n/t) |
LARED |
Aug-15-05 05:02 PM |
#123 |
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LARED, you obviously don't know about the 15M gallon water tank at the WTC |
MercutioATC |
Aug-15-05 05:09 PM |
#126 |
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NFPA standards online. |
Make7 |
Aug-14-05 10:52 AM |
#87 |
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Okay... if you go to Chapter 11 Section 2.... |
mikelewis |
Aug-14-05 11:37 AM |
#89 |
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Past and present standards. |
Make7 |
Aug-14-05 12:08 PM |
#91 |
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They have to meet the current standards of when the sprinkler system... |
mikelewis |
Aug-14-05 12:45 PM |
#94 |
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Thanks. ( n/t ) |
Make7 |
Aug-14-05 08:41 PM |
#109 |
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Mike, I really appreciate you bringing your expertise to this forum |
petgoat |
Aug-15-05 05:05 PM |
#124 |
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A small electric short circuit started a blaze |
hack89 |
Aug-08-05 10:17 PM |
#13 |
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The Windsor building was concrete framed, burned 24 hrs, did not collapse, |
pox americana |
Aug-08-05 10:47 PM |
#14 |
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But it was packed with flammable materials... |
hack89 |
Aug-09-05 02:09 PM |
#23 |
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It was undergoing renovation |
pox americana |
Aug-09-05 07:38 PM |
#26 |
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There was about 60 tons per floor of flammable material in the WTC... |
hack89 |
Aug-09-05 08:45 PM |
#32 |
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That's why they had automatic sprinklers. |
pox americana |
Aug-09-05 11:05 PM |
#34 |
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And how did the sprinklers survive the impact? |
hack89 |
Aug-10-05 07:40 PM |
#39 |
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Just like the rest of the structure did. |
pox americana |
Aug-10-05 10:12 PM |
#42 |
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Your contention is not believable... |
hack89 |
Aug-11-05 03:44 PM |
#47 |
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That doesn't make it any less true. |
pox americana |
Aug-11-05 09:57 PM |
#50 |
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Interesting way to concede the point but thanks. n/t |
hack89 |
Aug-11-05 10:06 PM |
#51 |
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May I suggest the purchase of an English dictionary. n/t |
pox americana |
Aug-11-05 10:12 PM |
#52 |
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When you respond to a reasoned statement.. |
hack89 |
Aug-11-05 10:18 PM |
#53 |
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Sure. |
stickdog |
Aug-12-05 08:39 AM |
#59 |
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Read this .. do the math.. |
hack89 |
Aug-12-05 11:02 AM |
#62 |
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Look at this, then get a clue. |
stickdog |
Aug-12-05 08:05 PM |
#66 |
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Actually, since the building was only 30% occupied at best... |
mikelewis |
Aug-14-05 07:34 PM |
#103 |
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30% occupied? |
petgoat |
Aug-14-05 07:38 PM |
#104 |
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The WTC was only 30% occupied? At best? |
LARED |
Aug-14-05 08:03 PM |
#106 |
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Before I show you mine, you show me yours... |
mikelewis |
Aug-14-05 11:34 PM |
#112 |
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And I just discovered that I was wrong, it wasn't 30%.. can you guess... |
mikelewis |
Aug-14-05 11:41 PM |
#113 |
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I thought in your previous post you meant tenant occupancy. |
Make7 |
Aug-14-05 11:45 PM |
#114 |
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How many tenants were there? |
mikelewis |
Aug-15-05 12:22 AM |
#115 |
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Two hundred eighty. |
Make7 |
Aug-15-05 03:17 AM |
#116 |
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How many people worked in the towers? You're best guess. |
mikelewis |
Aug-17-05 02:00 AM |
#128 |
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Thirty Seven Thousand Six Hundred Twenty Nine. |
Make7 |
Aug-17-05 02:13 AM |
#129 |
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And what are you basing this guess on? |
mikelewis |
Aug-17-05 07:52 AM |
#130 |
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The percentage of total available square footage of ... |
Make7 |
Aug-18-05 06:29 AM |
#134 |
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test |
spooked911 |
Aug-17-05 11:23 AM |
#133 |
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WTC |
sabbat hunter |
Aug-15-05 04:00 PM |
#120 |
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previous wtc fires |
slaveplanet |
Aug-08-05 09:28 PM |
#9 |
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You Got to be Kidding... |
carlvs |
Aug-08-05 09:54 PM |
#12 |
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I don't think they are hiding it... |
mikelewis |
Aug-14-05 06:34 PM |
#101 |
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"none of them caught fire"/"catastrophic fires" |
petgoat |
Aug-08-05 11:07 PM |
#15 |
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Supposedly... |
Make7 |
Aug-09-05 12:54 AM |
#16 |
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Yes, that guy is sampling steel. |
petgoat |
Aug-09-05 04:36 PM |
#25 |
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The sulfur came from gypsum in the wall board. |
hack89 |
Aug-09-05 08:39 PM |
#31 |
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The Expert Metallurgists Don't Know Where the Sulfur Came From. |
petgoat |
Aug-10-05 01:29 AM |
#36 |
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It wasn't explosives or detonators |
hack89 |
Aug-10-05 07:05 PM |
#38 |
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I HATE disinformation. |
stickdog |
Aug-12-05 07:43 PM |
#65 |
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I suppose... |
Make7 |
Aug-10-05 07:48 PM |
#40 |
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You are speculating. Where is a shred of EVIDENCE that ANY |
stickdog |
Aug-12-05 08:35 AM |
#57 |
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There was a part which landed on a rooftop |
undeterred |
Aug-08-05 09:30 PM |
#10 |
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Mechanical Eng. debunks official story of WTC |
philb |
Aug-09-05 11:01 PM |
#33 |
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It's only regurgitated CT sophistry (n/t) |
LARED |
Aug-12-05 07:21 AM |
#55 |
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That's telling 'em. |
stickdog |
Aug-12-05 08:36 AM |
#58 |
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What kind of reply would you expect? |
LARED |
Aug-12-05 08:45 AM |
#60 |
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That only works when your views fit in with their theories. ( n/t ) |
Make7 |
Aug-12-05 08:49 AM |
#61 |
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LARED, ASME, ME. There you go, am I now more believable |
petgoat |
Aug-14-05 01:58 PM |
#96 |
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Is petgoat your real name? |
LARED |
Aug-14-05 08:08 PM |
#107 |
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I'm not claiming "petgoat, ASME, ME" gives me credibility n/t |
petgoat |
Aug-15-05 05:08 PM |
#125 |
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Is it safe to assume you believe that because |
LARED |
Aug-15-05 08:00 PM |
#127 |