| 85. Bullet Was Switched at Sirhan Sirhan Trial, Lawyers Say |
|
Source: KABCCOALINGA, Calif. (KABC) -- Attorneys for Sirhan Sirhan said new evidence proves he did not assassinate Sen. Robert F. Kennedy in Los Angeles in 1968. The lawyers representing the convicted assassin said in new court documents that a bullet was switched in evidence at trial and new forensic tests show Sirhan is innocent. They said sophisticated audio tests recently conducted on recordings from the assassination night show 13 shots from multiple guns were fired - five more than Sirhan could have fired from his small pistol. They are calling for Sirhan to be released from prison or granted a new trial. The state attorney general's office had no comment. Read more: http://www.kabc.com/Article.asp?id=2343972&spid=38628
I guess his lawyers are giving up on the hypnotism and brainwashing defenses. No doubt Sirhan Sirhan is a fine upstanding citizen and his gun found in his possession at the scene, after it was discharged was just an unfortunate coincidence. |
| -Convicted RFK assassin Sirhan Sirhan seeks prison release |
alp227 |
Nov-27-11 12:55 AM |
#0 |
 -
Uh huh |
zappaman |
Nov-27-11 01:00 AM |
#1 |
 -
So, even if there is evidence of another assassin, we should just let it go? n/t |
AntiFascist |
Nov-27-11 01:14 AM |
#3 |
 -
If there was evidence, there would be evidence. There isn't. |
TheWraith |
Nov-27-11 01:20 AM |
#6 |
| -
Apparently there is evidence, a sound recording surfaced that clearly shows 13 shots fired... |
AntiFascist |
Nov-27-11 01:54 AM |
#11 |
| -
In no telling of the assassination did Sirhan "put a gun to RFK's head." |
JackRiddler |
Nov-27-11 01:35 PM |
#44 |
| -
The autopsy says the bullet hit RFK an inch behind his right ear & |
dflprincess |
Nov-27-11 08:57 PM |
#57 |
| -
Where does it says that in the report?? I can not find it |
happyslug |
Nov-29-11 03:38 PM |
#79 |
| -
You think the JFK assassination has been explained? |
Bragi |
Nov-28-11 12:45 PM |
#73 |
| -
witness testimony places him no closer than 3-6 feet away. RFK was shot point blank... |
dionysus |
Nov-29-11 03:42 PM |
#81 |
| -
Is there any conspiracy, no matter how much proof, you will at least look into? |
Ter |
Nov-29-11 05:10 PM |
#84 |
| -
Regardless of how much he was |
zentrum |
Nov-27-11 01:11 AM |
#2 |
| -
Hmm... no. Fuck him. nt |
TheWraith |
Nov-27-11 01:19 AM |
#4 |
| -
The 1% would *never* conspire to assassinate a Kennedy |
Beam Me Up |
Nov-27-11 01:20 AM |
#5 |
| -
Oh yes, those poor, humble, working-man Kennedys. |
boppers |
Nov-27-11 01:22 AM |
#8 |
| -
Straw man. The issue posed was the 1%ers might well assassinate Kennedys. No one said Kennedys were |
No Elephants |
Nov-27-11 07:04 AM |
#29 |
| -
Julius Caesar was not exactly the 99% look what happened to him. |
gordianot |
Nov-27-11 07:14 AM |
#31 |
| -
Actually, the Kennedys were nouveau riche, not to mention Irish Catholic. |
Beam Me Up |
Nov-27-11 11:04 AM |
#37 |
| -
Fallacy Alert! Fallacy Alert! |
Odin2005 |
Nov-27-11 09:50 AM |
#35 |
| -
"hypno-programmed"? |
boppers |
Nov-27-11 01:20 AM |
#7 |
| -
How do you know? |
Fantastic Anarchist |
Nov-27-11 02:11 AM |
#12 |
| -
Because people using dog-whistle terms of the cold war are not sane. |
boppers |
Nov-27-11 02:44 AM |
#13 |
| -
So Victor Marchetti... |
AntiFascist |
Nov-27-11 02:55 AM |
#16 |
| -
Yes. |
boppers |
Nov-27-11 05:04 AM |
#22 |
| -
Then what about when the Church Committee investigated MKULTRA... |
AntiFascist |
Nov-27-11 05:27 AM |
#25 |
| -
No, but wild outlandish claims about MKULTRA certainly seem to be. |
boppers |
Nov-28-11 12:41 AM |
#65 |
| -
ok, so I can understand why Sirhan may be paranoid, if he was subjected to certain drugs... |
AntiFascist |
Nov-28-11 12:53 AM |
#66 |
| -
Artichoke has an article as well. |
boppers |
Nov-28-11 01:23 AM |
#68 |
| -
Mentioned in the wiki article: |
AntiFascist |
Nov-28-11 01:29 AM |
#69 |
| -
Idiots can be placebo-effect convinced into being idiots. |
boppers |
Nov-28-11 05:02 AM |
#71 |
| -
It sounds like you don't believe in hypnosis... |
AntiFascist |
Nov-28-11 03:47 PM |
#74 |
| -
I have never in my life seen a credible demonstration. |
AtheistCrusader |
Nov-29-11 06:03 PM |
#180 |
| -
I think the point was to be able to frame a "lone wolf"... |
AntiFascist |
Nov-29-11 03:31 AM |
#77 |
| -
I suppose this declassified document is a figment of my imagination... |
AntiFascist |
Nov-27-11 05:48 AM |
#27 |
| -
That's a non-sequitur and red herring. |
Fantastic Anarchist |
Nov-27-11 02:58 AM |
#17 |
| -
He thinks he is real. |
boppers |
Nov-27-11 05:05 AM |
#23 |
| -
darren brown did a cool show about this. |
CEO Watson |
Nov-27-11 03:54 AM |
#18 |
| -
meh, lame. |
boppers |
Nov-27-11 05:08 AM |
#24 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Nov-27-11 02:14 PM |
#47 |
| -
Forty-Three Years Is Plenty |
SoDesuKa |
Nov-27-11 01:32 AM |
#9 |
| -
An iniquity, yes. |
AtheistCrusader |
Nov-27-11 01:44 AM |
#10 |
| -
He could have gotten the death penalty in many states. |
pnwmom |
Nov-27-11 02:48 AM |
#15 |
| -
Sirhan was, in fact, sentenced to death |
alcibiades_mystery |
Nov-27-11 01:16 PM |
#42 |
| -
What was his reasoning? |
naaman fletcher |
Nov-27-11 04:04 AM |
#19 |
| -
MKULTRA |
Ter |
Nov-29-11 05:09 PM |
#83 |
| -
Charles Manson is still in prison |
Art_from_Ark |
Nov-27-11 04:47 AM |
#21 |
| -
Charles Manson |
alcibiades_mystery |
Nov-27-11 01:12 PM |
#41 |
| -
I believe killing a Presidential candidate should be punished more than other killings. |
No Elephants |
Nov-27-11 07:16 AM |
#32 |
| -
You might believe that, but Sirhan was convicted of first degree murder |
alcibiades_mystery |
Nov-27-11 01:18 PM |
#43 |
| -
Agreed |
alcibiades_mystery |
Nov-27-11 01:08 PM |
#40 |
| -
There's a difference between 'celebrities' and politicians - either running for office or in office |
nini |
Nov-27-11 06:03 PM |
#54 |
| -
He might as well have been convicted of Treason. A capital crime. (nt) |
w4rma |
Nov-27-11 11:20 PM |
#63 |
| -
He put a gun to Kennedy's head and pulled the trigger. |
pnwmom |
Nov-27-11 02:46 AM |
#14 |
| -
In no telling of the assassination did Sirhan "put a gun to Kennedy's head." |
JackRiddler |
Nov-27-11 01:36 PM |
#45 |
| -
"get the gun"!!! |
unionworks |
Nov-27-11 04:21 AM |
#20 |
| -
Sirhan was shooting the gun while |
Politicalboi |
Nov-27-11 05:42 AM |
#26 |
| -
I went to look up "conspiracy" |
unionworks |
Nov-27-11 06:09 AM |
#28 |
| -
Who changed RFK's route, so that he passed through the kitchen, where Sirhan was? |
No Elephants |
Nov-27-11 07:08 AM |
#30 |
| -
never. nt |
BootinUp |
Nov-27-11 09:28 AM |
#33 |
| -
Forget about it, Sirhan. You deserve to DIE in that prison cell. |
Odin2005 |
Nov-27-11 09:49 AM |
#34 |
| -
I can't remember which of his parole appeals it was |
MurrayDelph |
Nov-27-11 10:41 AM |
#36 |
| -
Talk about an unlucky guy |
Yupster |
Nov-28-11 01:06 AM |
#67 |
| -
There are many very serious questions about the RFK assassination |
Peace Patriot |
Nov-27-11 12:39 PM |
#38 |
| -
Awesome post! |
bitchkitty |
Nov-27-11 12:54 PM |
#39 |
| -
This should be an OP. |
senseandsensibility |
Nov-27-11 01:53 PM |
#46 |
| -
K & R See Post # 48 |
red dog 1 |
Nov-27-11 02:46 PM |
#49 |
| -
+1, the role played by Nixon should not be overlooked... |
AntiFascist |
Nov-27-11 03:11 PM |
#50 |
| -
Thanks for the info! I didn't know about RFK's secret investigation. |
Peace Patriot |
Nov-27-11 05:31 PM |
#52 |
| -
Yes, the book was only allowed to be distributed in the US in 2002... |
AntiFascist |
Nov-27-11 06:59 PM |
#55 |
| -
A Couple of problems with your thread |
happyslug |
Nov-27-11 03:51 PM |
#51 |
| -
A Couple of Problems with YOUR Thread! |
red dog 1 |
Nov-27-11 05:39 PM |
#53 |
| -
Humphrey still had more delegates then Kennedy even after California, |
happyslug |
Nov-27-11 07:33 PM |
#56 |
| -
Humphrey had more delegates, so fucking what? Poimt is, Caesar Killed RFK! |
red dog 1 |
Nov-27-11 11:07 PM |
#61 |
| -
POINT is, Thane Eugene Caesar Killed RFK. |
red dog 1 |
Nov-28-11 12:12 AM |
#64 |
| -
Apparently the CIA didn't get the message that Humphrey was a shoo-in. |
Peace Patriot |
Nov-28-11 09:20 AM |
#72 |
| -
What you said. |
Matilda |
Nov-27-11 10:13 PM |
#58 |
| -
You certainly raise an interesting debate over motive... |
ellisonz |
Nov-27-11 10:44 PM |
#59 |
| -
Thane Eugene Cesar, security guard behnd Bobby, lied about firing his gun, and more. |
red dog 1 |
Nov-27-11 02:17 PM |
#48 |
| -
wiki articles use underscores as spaces |
alp227 |
Nov-27-11 11:10 PM |
#62 |
| -
In Post # 48, Wikipedia link is broken.....Google "Thane Eugene Caesar" |
red dog 1 |
Nov-28-11 01:39 AM |
#70 |
| -
Sirhan Sirhan shot RFK merely to gain fame and notoriety |
Zorro |
Nov-27-11 10:46 PM |
#60 |
| -
Sirhan shot his gun, but did not shoot RFK. |
red dog 1 |
Nov-28-11 04:29 PM |
#75 |
| -
George Joannides should also have been a person of interest in the JFK case... |
AntiFascist |
Nov-29-11 04:12 AM |
#78 |
| -
As well as David Morales, and the entire CIA-JM WAVE crew in Florida. |
red dog 1 |
Nov-29-11 03:40 PM |
#80 |
| -
Another interesting piece of research is... |
AntiFascist |
Nov-29-11 04:58 PM |
#82 |
| -
Oswald was the only member of the New Orleans' chapter ofFair Play for Cuba" |
red dog 1 |
Nov-30-11 12:31 AM |
#183 |
| -
Excellent discussion all! |
JNelson6563 |
Nov-28-11 05:32 PM |
#76 |
| -
Bullet Was Switched at Sirhan Sirhan Trial, Lawyers Say |
vminfla |
Nov-29-11 05:26 PM |
#85 |
| -
Incredible. Talk about a desperation appeal. I doubt it will work. nt. |
MADem |
Nov-29-11 05:26 PM |
#86 |
| -
Sirhan was in front of Bobby and his gun was at least three feet away |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#92 |
| -
He was there with a gun. Who here said he acted alone? nt |
MADem |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#94 |
| -
That's what all the derisive posts in this thread are implying. |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#96 |
| -
A conspiracy that he didn't do it and was being "wrongfully accused." |
MADem |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#101 |
| -
It's entirely possible that doing that would get his family killed. |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#112 |
| -
Maybe--but he could also have let investigators know that, and I'm quite sure they |
MADem |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#115 |
| -
Sirhan may also believe he killed RFK |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#118 |
| -
You haven't come up with a single reasonable explanation why he would not have named others. |
MADem |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#129 |
| -
The only entry in Sirhan's diary that referenced the "RFK must DIE" idea |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#131 |
| -
Oh, really? You're a handwriting expert, now? |
MADem |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#136 |
| -
The links are out there, and it wasn't me making the observation about the handwriting. |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#148 |
| -
"The links are out there." Is that a riff on that old TV show about aliens? |
MADem |
Nov-29-11 05:28 PM |
#158 |
| -
I made several reasonable explanations |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#132 |
| -
You aren't offering any proof of your suppositions. |
MADem |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#142 |
| -
Three feet IS "point blank range." |
TheWraith |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#107 |
| -
Wrong. |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#111 |
| -
Attempted intimidation? You were the one who raised the "Only a Republican" flag!! nt |
MADem |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#117 |
| -
Wrong. |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#119 |
| -
No--not wrong. You said it--now own it. Your view is the only one that matters--to you. |
MADem |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#135 |
| -
You were being derisive before I posted anything |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#139 |
| -
Nonsense. You are having as much trouble with the word "derisive" as you were with |
MADem |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#145 |
| -
The reference to Republicans is off the point |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#144 |
| -
It is not "off the point." It IS the point. You throw an insult when challenged. |
MADem |
Nov-29-11 05:28 PM |
#154 |
| -
What was lame was acting as if it is silly to question the flawed investigation |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:28 PM |
#157 |
| -
I've invited you to prove your assertions. You answered "The links are out there." |
MADem |
Nov-29-11 05:28 PM |
#160 |
| -
Not wrong. You simply have no clue what you're talking about. |
TheWraith |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#140 |
| -
"GSR only travels one to three inches out of the barrel of a gun"? Utterly false. |
greyl |
Nov-30-11 12:50 AM |
#184 |
| -
Behind the right ear is not "from behind". |
AtheistCrusader |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#109 |
| -
It's also based on the path the bullet took inside of Bobby's head |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#116 |
| -
A coroner is not necessarily a ballistics expert. |
AtheistCrusader |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#134 |
| -
The bullet passed through the mastoid process |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#138 |
| -
I didn't say "couldn't have inflicted the head wound" |
AtheistCrusader |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#143 |
| -
Stippling can occur within 3 feet |
udbcrzy2 |
Nov-29-11 05:28 PM |
#152 |
| -
Depends on too many factors to list. |
AtheistCrusader |
Nov-29-11 05:28 PM |
#155 |
| -
And quelle surprise... |
AtheistCrusader |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#137 |
| -
I think you may mean "gunpowder residue" rather than |
MineralMan |
Nov-29-11 05:28 PM |
#149 |
| -
A bullet! |
AtheistCrusader |
Nov-29-11 05:28 PM |
#151 |
| -
Gunpowder residue is what I meant...but my impression was that |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:28 PM |
#153 |
| -
I don't believe so. Generally terminology used in courtrooms is |
MineralMan |
Nov-29-11 05:28 PM |
#156 |
| -
Consider it amended to gunpowder, for whatever it's worth. |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:28 PM |
#159 |
| -
If you're imprecise in one thing, why should I assume that you are |
MineralMan |
Nov-29-11 05:28 PM |
#162 |
| -
It's not just "conspiracy theory" |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:28 PM |
#164 |
| -
In your opinion, Sirhan couldn't have fired the shot. |
AtheistCrusader |
Nov-29-11 05:52 PM |
#177 |
| -
you seriously are trying to destroy that poster's credibility |
fascisthunter |
Nov-29-11 05:28 PM |
#165 |
| -
It just doesn't make sense that anyone on OUR side of the political spectrum |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:28 PM |
#168 |
| -
Yeah, I thought of that too |
fascisthunter |
Nov-29-11 05:28 PM |
#170 |
| -
I will |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:28 PM |
#171 |
| -
"You raise good points" |
AtheistCrusader |
Nov-29-11 05:58 PM |
#179 |
| -
You have made overbroad statements, and several errors thus far, stated as fact. |
AtheistCrusader |
Nov-29-11 05:54 PM |
#178 |
| -
oh brother |
fascisthunter |
Nov-29-11 05:28 PM |
#163 |
| -
If you have been turned into a Manchurian Candidate, and kill someone, |
truedelphi |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#128 |
| -
Ah, conspiracy theory at its very, very best. |
MineralMan |
Nov-29-11 05:26 PM |
#87 |
| -
No...hard evidence... |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#100 |
| -
Cite credible sources for your claims. |
TheWraith |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#110 |
| -
Dr. Noguchi's autopsy report is a credible source. |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#133 |
| -
Provide a link to a reputable source showing the complete text. |
TheWraith |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#141 |
| -
I hate skeptics more than anything in life |
Ter |
Nov-29-11 05:28 PM |
#175 |
| -
You seem extremely skeptical of skepticism for some reason. |
greyl |
Nov-30-11 12:53 AM |
#185 |
| -
Hmm, Rosie Grier grabbed the wrong 'guy with a revolver in his hand'? |
louis-t |
Nov-29-11 05:26 PM |
#88 |
| -
Well, natch. It is a wonder how much can be ignored when |
MineralMan |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#90 |
| -
Sirhan was in front of Bobby and his gun was at least three feet away from Bobby. |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#95 |
| -
Did Bobby Kennedy have a stiff neck? I hadn't heard that. |
MineralMan |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#146 |
| -
Turning his head wouldn't have accounted for Sirhan getting close enough to fire the shot |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#147 |
| -
.22 long rifle ammo used in a short barrel pistol. |
AtheistCrusader |
Nov-29-11 05:28 PM |
#150 |
| -
I don't have to explain anything away. There was a trial involved. |
MineralMan |
Nov-29-11 05:28 PM |
#161 |
| -
Sirhan's lawyers at the original trial made no real defense. |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:28 PM |
#166 |
| -
Sirhan did have the gun, and probably did inflict the non-lethal wounds on the other four people. |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#93 |
| -
The only person directly behind RFK was security guard Thane E. Cesar, who had a .22 |
red dog 1 |
Nov-30-11 01:53 AM |
#186 |
| -
A hot revolver too.....but hey, whatever!! Cue the "Poor Sirhan" crowd! |
MADem |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#98 |
| -
Nobody is saying Sirhan didn't harm anyone that night |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#104 |
| -
I am not "obsessed with defending a flawed investigation" but I am intent on |
MADem |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#113 |
| -
I didn't say Sirhan was innocent of ALL wrongdoing |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#122 |
| -
Aren't you conflating the "poor Sirhan" crowd with those who suspect a conspiracy? |
AntiFascist |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#123 |
| -
Plus, you don't have to be a "poor Sirhan" type(btw, is ANYONE really a "poor Sirhan" type?) |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#130 |
| -
Let's hope his defense is vigorous, then, and we can put an end to some of this halfassed |
MADem |
Nov-29-11 05:28 PM |
#174 |
| -
Nobody said SIrhan was innocent of ALL wrongdoing. |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 07:45 PM |
#181 |
| -
he's being a "Manchurian assassin" has nothing to do with bullets being switched |
villager |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#89 |
| -
It's also amazing how far a conspiracy theory can be stretched. |
MineralMan |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#91 |
| -
This isn't "conspiracy theory", it's the hard facts of the case |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#97 |
| -
Bobby could not have turned around to greet someone? He was on wheels? |
MADem |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#103 |
| -
Sirhan would have had to take several steps FORWARD, not back |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#108 |
| -
Shoot first, step back--that puts three feet between Sirhan and RFK. |
MADem |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#121 |
| -
Nobody ever saw him get close enough to fire a shot from one inch away from Bobby |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#125 |
| -
Well, given that your point-blank theory has been raked over the coals, how would that matter, |
MADem |
Nov-29-11 05:28 PM |
#173 |
| -
Ken, I've read extensively on the assasination as I was only |
Jazzgirl |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#105 |
| -
Thank you for that post |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#120 |
| -
Yawn. |
AtheistCrusader |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#106 |
| -
"This isn't "conspiracy theory", it's the hard facts of the case" |
zappaman |
Nov-29-11 08:56 PM |
#182 |
| -
Bwahaha....I don't see a conspiracy theory in this thread.... |
AntiFascist |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#102 |
| -
It's also kind of amazing how different kinds of evidence can be ignored |
villager |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#124 |
| -
Indeed. |
Ken Burch |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#127 |
| -
very weird that evidence is being ignored... |
fascisthunter |
Nov-29-11 05:28 PM |
#167 |
| -
Duplicate Topic from Monday |
happyslug |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#99 |
| -
RFK Must Die Movie |
PufPuf23 |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#114 |
| -
K&R |
Tom Ripley |
Nov-29-11 05:27 PM |
#126 |
| -
WOW... very Interesting |
fascisthunter |
Nov-29-11 05:28 PM |
#169 |
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Gosh, if he is innocent, how does the government ever make it up to him? |
Trillo |
Nov-29-11 05:28 PM |
#172 |
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I LOVE the sound of knickers twisting in the evening! |
dbt |
Nov-29-11 05:28 PM |
#176 |
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