anigbrowl
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Wed Sep-02-09 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #117 |
| 124. Now you're being rather dishonest |
|
"All I am saying and have been saying is that, in theory, one could use the manner in which debris came off the towers as a "data mine" for learning about the forces involved. If everything behaved as expected (no, not a model but an observation of the movement of actual visible debris and calculations based on it.)
Not a model, no and yes, I do understand complexities are involved, especially depending on what questions are asked specifically about what object. But to throw out the approach as impossible and then try to pass an offhand denial as the absolute end all of scientific opinion is weak..."
Nobody has thrown out the approach as impossible. It's just been pointed out to you repeatedly that there is massive complexity involved. So massive, in fact, that I think modeling is a better approach.
"You reveal yourself when instead of saying, "that sounds like an interesting angle. I wonder if work has been done on the subject.". You make a knee-jerk response that no possible data could be gained from "modelling" the fall. It was a strawman and a closed minded thing to do. Period. Full stop."
I said no such thing. Anywhere. In fact, I think modeling such things is the best way of studying them, and will be far more fruitful than trying to reverse-engineer the path of individual bits of debris. Perhaps you are mixing me up with someone else, or you (badly) misunderstood something I said.
I am beginning to think you do not understand the difference between modeling and analysis.
|
| -Using geometry to analyze angles of descent of falling debris from WT1 & WT2 |
Bonobo |
Sep-01-09 09:11 AM |
#0 |
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"it seems that the math would be relatively straightforward" |
jberryhill |
Sep-01-09 09:36 AM |
#1 |
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But I mean the for the areas ABOVE where there would have been such a collision. |
Bonobo |
Sep-01-09 09:40 AM |
#2 |
 -
"Apply a downward force shattering the glass" |
Bonobo |
Sep-01-09 09:49 AM |
#4 |
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"it would be more straightforward than you imply" |
jberryhill |
Sep-01-09 10:03 AM |
#6 |
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"So why don't you go ahead and do whatever it is you have in mind, instead of talking about it." |
Bonobo |
Sep-01-09 10:24 AM |
#9 |
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"...I find it odd that you would choose to shoot down an approach..." |
Realityhack |
Sep-01-09 11:27 AM |
#12 |
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As I said, BEFORE the collison, BEFORE. So there would be no bounce effect at top. |
Bonobo |
Sep-01-09 11:51 AM |
#16 |
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You may be asking a decent question... but you are refusing flatly to listen to the answer. |
Realityhack |
Sep-01-09 12:07 PM |
#17 |
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Simplifying for calculation is a regrettable concession that has to be made in any study. |
Bonobo |
Sep-01-09 12:12 PM |
#21 |
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"-Fine. Accepted. Does this mean it can't be done?" |
Realityhack |
Sep-01-09 12:39 PM |
#28 |
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Always driven to the point where any discussion that could open new doors is even conceivable. |
Bonobo |
Sep-01-09 12:54 PM |
#31 |
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what is incurious about Realityhack's response? |
OnTheOtherHand |
Sep-01-09 04:53 PM |
#40 |
  -
"How could Rh revise it to make it more curious?" |
Realityhack |
Sep-02-09 09:03 AM |
#63 |
   -
A Better Observation, RH |
jberryhill |
Sep-02-09 10:26 AM |
#73 |
    -
Please see my post below. But that's a really silly argument... |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 10:29 AM |
#75 |
    -
Again, ad hominem |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 11:25 AM |
#87 |
   -
You do not appear to understand the term 'ad hominem'. n/t |
Realityhack |
Sep-02-09 11:31 AM |
#88 |
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OK. Withdrawn. Ad Bonobo. nt |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 11:33 AM |
#91 |
   -
Weak gruel of a response. |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 11:35 AM |
#92 |
   -
"But it appears bonobo just refuses to accept that answer." |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 11:23 AM |
#86 |
  -
No, I think consideration is being rejected out of hand for no reason. |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 11:21 AM |
#85 |
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I stated my position in the post you just replied to |
OnTheOtherHand |
Sep-02-09 06:40 PM |
#140 |
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I'm Curious About How Cells Divide |
jberryhill |
Sep-01-09 05:43 PM |
#43 |
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Well stated post. Your patience is noteworthy. nt |
LARED |
Sep-01-09 10:17 PM |
#55 |
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Misplaced more like. nt |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 11:32 AM |
#90 |
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You do realize you just put yourself down right? n/t |
Realityhack |
Sep-02-09 01:16 PM |
#106 |
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"He he. Ranked yerself out!" We used to say that. In Junior High. nt |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 01:42 PM |
#109 |
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Half of that is a false analogy and the rest proceeds from a strawman. |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 11:32 AM |
#89 |
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The contradiction... |
anigbrowl |
Sep-02-09 02:14 PM |
#116 |
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Sounds like you now agree that it is an avenue that is open to investigation. |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 02:25 PM |
#118 |
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I have never thought otherwise |
anigbrowl |
Sep-02-09 02:51 PM |
#126 |
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I have not seen the type of analysis I am describing and if you have, links would be appreciated. |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 02:59 PM |
#128 |
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See #133 |
anigbrowl |
Sep-02-09 03:37 PM |
#135 |
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RH, so it is too complex AND it cannot be simplified in any way for any analysis? WOW! |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 11:18 AM |
#84 |
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No. You are entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is wrong. |
Realityhack |
Sep-02-09 11:36 AM |
#94 |
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So what is the 'opinion' that is wrong? |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 12:21 PM |
#101 |
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wrong place. self delete. |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 02:27 PM |
#119 |
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Now that we have arrived at that, I guess your work is done. |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 02:30 PM |
#120 |
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Here RH starts with "It is too complex for you to understand, so you can't discuss." |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 11:15 AM |
#83 |
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Reading comprehension.... your doing it wrong. n/t |
Realityhack |
Sep-02-09 12:04 PM |
#97 |
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Spelling ability --"your" doing it wrong. n/t |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 12:22 PM |
#102 |
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Absolutely and let me be the first to admit it. |
Realityhack |
Sep-02-09 01:15 PM |
#105 |
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It is from this point, in my view that you began to say "Do it yourself or it isn't true." |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 11:14 AM |
#82 |
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That is not what was said. You are seeing what you want to see. n/t |
Realityhack |
Sep-02-09 12:05 PM |
#98 |
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But we know that the top of the towers were tilting |
hack89 |
Sep-01-09 09:46 AM |
#3 |
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Yes, that is true. But a tipping object... |
Bonobo |
Sep-01-09 09:50 AM |
#5 |
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Sure... if it was some sort of ideal solid object |
jberryhill |
Sep-01-09 10:09 AM |
#7 |
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"The top twenty or thirty floors of the towers are not a pair of dice that are going to roll" |
Bonobo |
Sep-01-09 10:18 AM |
#8 |
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By now you should clearly see how this dance works... |
lovepg |
Sep-01-09 11:08 AM |
#10 |
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It is becoming painfully obvious. |
Bonobo |
Sep-01-09 11:16 AM |
#11 |
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+1 |
Why Syzygy |
Sep-01-09 12:45 PM |
#30 |
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spot on man. thanks. nt |
wildbilln864 |
Sep-01-09 10:20 PM |
#56 |
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thank you. very well put. spot on |
Twist_U_Up |
Sep-02-09 05:00 PM |
#138 |
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The fact that you posted those two videos as a response to what Hack wrote... |
Realityhack |
Sep-01-09 11:29 AM |
#13 |
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And you do because?????????? |
lovepg |
Sep-01-09 11:38 AM |
#14 |
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As I said, we have veered off this topic of the OP. |
Bonobo |
Sep-01-09 11:45 AM |
#15 |
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"I won the (sub) point (and red herring) by any reasonable standard" ROTFLMFAO. n/t |
Realityhack |
Sep-01-09 12:09 PM |
#20 |
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HELLO? I don't care. Stop deflecting the point of the OP. |
Bonobo |
Sep-01-09 12:12 PM |
#22 |
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Those are concrete buildings |
hack89 |
Sep-01-09 12:08 PM |
#18 |
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Deflect! Pwwww! nt |
Bonobo |
Sep-01-09 12:13 PM |
#23 |
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I guess you can't answer the question? nt |
hack89 |
Sep-01-09 02:17 PM |
#32 |
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Not at all, my position is that it has nothing to do with the OP. |
Bonobo |
Sep-01-09 02:41 PM |
#33 |
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Then why did you post those videos? |
hack89 |
Sep-01-09 03:24 PM |
#36 |
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I said that a tipping object would fall in a predictable arc. |
Bonobo |
Sep-01-09 03:30 PM |
#37 |
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Again you miss the point |
hack89 |
Sep-01-09 04:57 PM |
#41 |
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" So I playfully posted videos that show that they are rather sturdier than one might expect." |
Realityhack |
Sep-02-09 09:24 AM |
#68 |
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That is precisely one of the things that SOME people find odd. |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 09:41 AM |
#70 |
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Well, it's not that odd to a lot of other people |
anigbrowl |
Sep-02-09 02:01 PM |
#112 |
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Again, this is not the point, but actually a sub-thread. |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 02:04 PM |
#114 |
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As I've said, it's possible but it's not simple |
anigbrowl |
Sep-02-09 02:33 PM |
#121 |
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Is the reverse possible? |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 02:39 PM |
#122 |
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Try asking your question again |
anigbrowl |
Sep-02-09 03:04 PM |
#130 |
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I think you have answered well enough, thank you. n/t |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 03:05 PM |
#131 |
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but... |
tenseconds |
Sep-03-09 08:58 AM |
#146 |
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Especially not if it is shooting debris outwards at the same time! nt |
Bonobo |
Sep-03-09 12:09 PM |
#148 |
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Those are reinforced concrete structures |
jberryhill |
Sep-01-09 12:09 PM |
#19 |
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Deflect! Pwwww! nt |
Bonobo |
Sep-01-09 12:13 PM |
#24 |
  -
It sounds as if they are geometrically opposed to discussing the subject. nt |
lovepg |
Sep-01-09 12:20 PM |
#26 |
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Odd thing on a discussion board. Especially one devoted to discussing THIS subject. |
Bonobo |
Sep-01-09 12:24 PM |
#27 |
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And your answer to his question is what? |
jberryhill |
Sep-01-09 08:26 PM |
#48 |
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What I fail to understand is why you keep saying that. |
Bonobo |
Sep-01-09 12:19 PM |
#25 |
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See my essay above about "simple questions" |
jberryhill |
Sep-01-09 05:58 PM |
#45 |
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Deflect! Pwwww! |
anigbrowl |
Sep-01-09 02:54 PM |
#34 |
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Since steel buildings are not in the habit of collapsing .. |
Why Syzygy |
Sep-01-09 12:41 PM |
#29 |
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Um... |
anigbrowl |
Sep-01-09 03:04 PM |
#35 |
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oops |
Why Syzygy |
Sep-01-09 03:45 PM |
#38 |
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You can't fool me. You're part of the global Swine Flu illuminati! |
anigbrowl |
Sep-01-09 03:50 PM |
#39 |
  -
I don't see any rebar. |
Why Syzygy |
Sep-01-09 05:01 PM |
#42 |
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Oh dear oh dear |
anigbrowl |
Sep-01-09 05:46 PM |
#44 |
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Hell no. |
Why Syzygy |
Sep-01-09 07:18 PM |
#46 |
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So, although I've provided you with evidence that the building is in fact made out of concrete... |
anigbrowl |
Sep-01-09 07:29 PM |
#47 |
  -
Exactly who the hell |
Why Syzygy |
Sep-01-09 09:20 PM |
#52 |
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Oh, poutrage |
anigbrowl |
Sep-01-09 10:00 PM |
#53 |
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If that's the the mental process |
Why Syzygy |
Sep-01-09 10:10 PM |
#54 |
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Well, let's see |
anigbrowl |
Sep-01-09 10:28 PM |
#57 |
  -
So what that the report mentions concrete???? |
lovepg |
Sep-01-09 11:51 PM |
#58 |
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When it's the main descriptive adjective |
anigbrowl |
Sep-02-09 12:08 AM |
#60 |
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I finally followed the link. |
Why Syzygy |
Sep-02-09 09:13 AM |
#65 |
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Form the link YOU posted "...An old flour factory... " n/t |
Realityhack |
Sep-02-09 09:22 AM |
#67 |
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We've got to go with |
Why Syzygy |
Sep-02-09 10:08 AM |
#71 |
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Nope but nice try. |
Realityhack |
Sep-02-09 11:47 AM |
#95 |
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Well first... |
Why Syzygy |
Sep-02-09 12:07 PM |
#99 |
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I was wondering how long it would take for you to ask that question |
anigbrowl |
Sep-02-09 12:59 PM |
#103 |
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Why would we be interested |
Why Syzygy |
Sep-02-09 01:12 PM |
#104 |
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"You haven't provided any evidence here regarding concrete falling differently than steel." |
Realityhack |
Sep-02-09 01:22 PM |
#108 |
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All I posted |
Why Syzygy |
Sep-02-09 01:57 PM |
#111 |
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They are called verbs in Japanese. You put endings on them to change the meaning. |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 02:13 PM |
#115 |
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Like Spanish .. |
Why Syzygy |
Sep-02-09 02:43 PM |
#123 |
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I find it hard to believe you are serious |
anigbrowl |
Sep-02-09 01:49 PM |
#110 |
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It is not EXACTLY what I asked but close. |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 02:22 PM |
#117 |
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Now you're being rather dishonest |
anigbrowl |
Sep-02-09 02:46 PM |
#124 |
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Tell me the mass of each peice of debris |
vincent_vega_lives |
Sep-03-09 12:15 PM |
#149 |
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I can do that. |
Bonobo |
Sep-03-09 12:21 PM |
#150 |
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And.....? |
vincent_vega_lives |
Sep-04-09 08:13 AM |
#165 |
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I actually have an interesting thing I have been reading... |
Bonobo |
Sep-04-09 09:24 AM |
#166 |
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Yes it can certainly be calculated |
vincent_vega_lives |
Sep-04-09 09:32 AM |
#167 |
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With that information... |
Bonobo |
Sep-04-09 09:39 AM |
#168 |
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Theoretical? |
vincent_vega_lives |
Sep-04-09 11:58 AM |
#170 |
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Not to mention the missing information... |
Realityhack |
Sep-04-09 12:15 PM |
#171 |
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you accused him of misrepresenting what you posted |
OnTheOtherHand |
Sep-02-09 05:28 AM |
#62 |
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*snarf* |
Why Syzygy |
Sep-02-09 09:10 AM |
#64 |
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Actually from the English article and the second paragraph it appears it was a flour mill... |
Realityhack |
Sep-02-09 09:21 AM |
#66 |
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yes they were regarding the structure |
vincent_vega_lives |
Sep-01-09 08:34 PM |
#49 |
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UMMMM so all the desks ,office,furniture, people , file cabinets, mini fridges,... |
lovepg |
Sep-01-09 11:55 PM |
#59 |
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'load bearing' is an engineering term |
anigbrowl |
Sep-02-09 12:18 AM |
#61 |
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sure |
vincent_vega_lives |
Sep-02-09 09:31 AM |
#69 |
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No but all the floors were concrete and they are a big part of the structure.... |
lovepg |
Sep-02-09 11:36 AM |
#93 |
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This is why lay people have difficulty discussing things with engineers. |
Realityhack |
Sep-02-09 11:49 AM |
#96 |
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Wouldn't even structural concrete be steel reinforced??? nt |
lovepg |
Sep-02-09 01:21 PM |
#107 |
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HELL YES! |
Why Syzygy |
Sep-02-09 02:01 PM |
#113 |
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So then you are saying the Concrete building is essentialy a steel building... |
lovepg |
Sep-02-09 02:46 PM |
#125 |
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I'm not an official people. |
Why Syzygy |
Sep-02-09 02:58 PM |
#127 |
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Excuse me no offense meant. But they are both steel framed buildings no? |
lovepg |
Sep-02-09 03:02 PM |
#129 |
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Yes. |
Why Syzygy |
Sep-02-09 03:09 PM |
#132 |
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Hmmm....are you sure about that? |
anigbrowl |
Sep-02-09 03:19 PM |
#134 |
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I'm going to save |
Why Syzygy |
Sep-02-09 04:08 PM |
#136 |
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Who would have thought that simple factual questions could be so stresful. |
anigbrowl |
Sep-02-09 04:28 PM |
#137 |
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That isn't a steel-framed building. n/t |
SDuderstadt |
Sep-02-09 12:20 PM |
#100 |
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Apparently, he believes the H1N1 vaccination program is a "demolition" of some kind... |
jberryhill |
Sep-01-09 08:44 PM |
#50 |
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Sleuth you are not. |
Why Syzygy |
Sep-01-09 09:18 PM |
#51 |
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A Serious Question For You... |
jberryhill |
Sep-02-09 10:18 AM |
#72 |
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It may be serious, but... |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 10:26 AM |
#74 |
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Funny you should ask.... |
jberryhill |
Sep-02-09 10:33 AM |
#76 |
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You missed the point. |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 10:34 AM |
#77 |
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Ah..... and now you understand the function of peer review |
jberryhill |
Sep-02-09 10:38 AM |
#78 |
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I always did, don't be silly. Why have YOU been arguing as if such a thing does not exist? |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 10:51 AM |
#80 |
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If you were prepared to admit this, why post #76? |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 11:04 AM |
#81 |
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I have not rejected anything but that is immaterial here. Don't change the subject. |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 10:50 AM |
#79 |
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Alternatively, (simulations) |
anigbrowl |
Sep-02-09 03:15 PM |
#133 |
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Thank you (re Y axis). I just became aware of this myself. |
Bonobo |
Sep-02-09 05:40 PM |
#139 |
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where is the south tower simulation where half the plane goes out the side but .. |
lovepg |
Sep-02-09 11:38 PM |
#141 |
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I doubt if modeling something that appears to have only occurred in your imagination... |
Make7 |
Sep-03-09 01:24 AM |
#142 |
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Its NISTs imagination read the report. Oh no I am sounding like an official story person..Nt |
lovepg |
Sep-03-09 01:25 AM |
#143 |
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Then you should have no problem producing a direct quote stating "half the plane goes out the side." |
Make7 |
Sep-03-09 01:51 AM |
#144 |
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Oh good grief if you do not believe me look at the damn video. Its obvious.. |
lovepg |
Sep-03-09 10:35 AM |
#147 |
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Ahem... |
anigbrowl |
Sep-03-09 12:35 PM |
#151 |
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Ohhh And post 142 was not snarky??? |
lovepg |
Sep-03-09 01:02 PM |
#152 |
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It's up to you whether you want to have a discussion or trade punches. |
anigbrowl |
Sep-03-09 04:12 PM |
#153 |
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Lecturing instead of discussing especially when you started it is just another way |
lovepg |
Sep-03-09 10:47 PM |
#158 |
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The NIST report |
Why Syzygy |
Sep-03-09 07:59 PM |
#154 |
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It doesn't? |
AZCat |
Sep-03-09 08:29 PM |
#155 |
  -
If you post a link |
Why Syzygy |
Sep-03-09 10:43 PM |
#157 |
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Sure thing. |
AZCat |
Sep-03-09 11:49 PM |
#161 |
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There's no other way to say this, but... |
SDuderstadt |
Sep-03-09 10:05 PM |
#156 |
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But But But How can they say exactly how many core columns were taken out then? |
lovepg |
Sep-03-09 10:49 PM |
#159 |
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Not important .... |
Why Syzygy |
Sep-03-09 11:46 PM |
#160 |
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Well my point was kinda that the computer models used were how many columns.. |
lovepg |
Sep-04-09 12:12 AM |
#162 |
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So is |
Why Syzygy |
Sep-04-09 12:34 AM |
#163 |
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Exactly! Nt |
lovepg |
Sep-04-09 11:27 AM |
#169 |
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It is precisely because I have watched the videos that I don't believe you. |
Make7 |
Sep-04-09 03:42 AM |
#164 |
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What are you a no planer??? You can see the plane exploding out the side. |
lovepg |
Sep-05-09 01:20 PM |
#172 |
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Do you believe the plane was made of jet fuel? |
Make7 |
Sep-05-09 04:42 PM |
#173 |
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The right Engine from that plane was found on top of a police car blocks away. |
lovepg |
Sep-05-09 05:19 PM |
#174 |
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So then you believe the plane was just two engines and nothing else? |
Make7 |
Sep-05-09 07:25 PM |
#175 |
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Show how NIST proves this assertion. Can you prove... |
lovepg |
Sep-05-09 10:26 PM |
#176 |
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you simply moved the goalposts |
OnTheOtherHand |
Sep-06-09 06:31 AM |
#177 |
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The only one in this conversation demanding anything is you. |
Make7 |
Sep-06-09 02:11 PM |
#178 |
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I dunno, write and ask them |
anigbrowl |
Sep-03-09 02:12 AM |
#145 |