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Reply #117: I think our problem is a different idea of the context of the discussion. [View All]

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eomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #115
117. I think our problem is a different idea of the context of the discussion.
Edited on Sat May-23-09 09:46 AM by eomer
My original comment was that this statement implies a level of certainty that is not justified:

"The Bush administration neither orchestrated the attacks nor deliberately allowed them."


I think that the way you and I are out of sync on this has to do with context. Or, in other words, I think that there is a right time and place for speculating about what we don't know.

I worry that the goal of the excerpted statement is to foreclose discussions about something we don't know, and to do so by making it seem that we do know something that we don't.

So, if by defend the OCT you mean you will argue that we know for a fact that there was no inside job aspect of 9/11 and therefore no one should even discuss such a possibility, even when they make it clear that their discussion is speculative, then we disagree. But I get the feeling that we don't disagree. Rather, I think that we are applying two different understandings of the context of the discussion. You're discussing what we know, while I'm trying to have a discussion about what we don't. An impedance mismatch, if you will.

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  -Yes, I defend the so called OCT LARED  May-18-09 05:30 AM   #0 
  - wanna review what it is you're defending?  OnTheOtherHand   May-18-09 05:36 AM   #1 
  - Well no, I don't subscribe to  LARED   May-18-09 05:45 AM   #2 
     - OK...  OnTheOtherHand   May-18-09 06:06 AM   #3 
        - Yes, the only thing would add  LARED   May-18-09 06:57 AM   #5 
        - so what  crankmob   May-22-09 12:09 PM   #112 
        - Wait.... I thought that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was the mastermind...  Ghost in the Machine   May-19-09 03:19 AM   #44 
        - yawn  OnTheOtherHand   May-19-09 04:02 AM   #45 
           - Bin Laden didn't fund 9/11.  CJCRANE   May-20-09 06:03 AM   #61 
              - meh  OnTheOtherHand   May-20-09 06:26 AM   #64 
                 - But some of the financiers weren't in "al-Qaeda". You should look it up. nt  CJCRANE   May-20-09 06:28 AM   #65 
                    - I never said they were  OnTheOtherHand   May-20-09 06:39 AM   #68 
                       - "I figured that referring to him might  CJCRANE   May-20-09 06:44 AM   #69 
                          - nu?  OnTheOtherHand   May-20-09 07:12 AM   #71 
                             - You're getting all Rovian now. I've made my points quite clearly. Thankyou nt.  CJCRANE   May-20-09 07:16 AM   #72 
                                - Rovian, eh?  OnTheOtherHand   May-20-09 07:22 AM   #74 
        - Are you sure about this part?  eomer   May-20-09 05:25 AM   #58 
           - Is this a lesson in illogic 101?  LARED   May-20-09 05:37 AM   #59 
              - No problem.  eomer   May-20-09 05:53 AM   #60 
                 - OK, just about anything is possible  LARED   May-20-09 06:10 AM   #62 
                    - True, just about anything is possible.  eomer   May-20-09 06:19 AM   #63 
                       - Nobody volunteered to prove a negative.  LARED   May-20-09 06:28 AM   #66 
                       - In that case you are not defending the version that OTOH laid out.  eomer   May-20-09 06:35 AM   #67 
                       - That does not represent my views  LARED   May-20-09 08:45 PM   #82 
                          - PMJI  OnTheOtherHand   May-21-09 05:23 AM   #95 
                          - If I understand correctly, then, you do want to defend the statement:  eomer   May-21-09 07:59 AM   #101 
                             - What is you basis for that knowledge?  LARED   May-21-09 09:56 PM   #105 
                       - Further thoughts while waiting for Lared...  eomer   May-20-09 05:15 PM   #75 
                          - this is why I'm not interested in "defending the OCT"  OnTheOtherHand   May-20-09 05:33 PM   #76 
                          - Understood.  eomer   May-20-09 07:17 PM   #77 
                             - I'm perfectly happy to hear your views  OnTheOtherHand   May-20-09 07:54 PM   #78 
                             - I think the problem of presumptive status would diminish  eomer   May-20-09 08:17 PM   #79 
                             - Yes indeed, eomer  BeFree   May-20-09 10:11 PM   #87 
                          - That is not my argument  LARED   May-20-09 09:03 PM   #83 
                             - Presumption of innocence  BeFree   May-20-09 10:26 PM   #88 
                             - Sort of, but normally the presumption of innocence is suspended in an important sense.  eomer   May-21-09 05:25 AM   #96 
                             - You ignored this part of my statement  LARED   May-21-09 05:48 AM   #98 
                                - No motive?  eomer   May-21-09 07:30 AM   #100 
                                   - To clarify  LARED   May-21-09 09:52 PM   #104 
                                      - Thanks, here's my clarification.  eomer   May-22-09 05:05 AM   #108 
                             - No, I don't claim Bush should be presumed guilty.  eomer   May-21-09 06:11 AM   #99 
                                - You are free to  LARED   May-21-09 10:07 PM   #106 
                                   - What we apparently agree on, and the part we're not sure about.  eomer   May-22-09 04:54 AM   #107 
                                      - Humm  LARED   May-22-09 05:45 AM   #109 
                                         - I agree, let's apply the criteria consistently.  eomer   May-22-09 05:57 AM   #110 
                                            - Well then the criteria for presumption should be applied consistently as well  LARED   May-23-09 06:53 AM   #115 
                                               - I think our problem is a different idea of the context of the discussion.  eomer   May-23-09 09:46 AM   #117 
                       - You're getting close to what I call "OCT Plus"...  CJCRANE   May-20-09 07:03 AM   #70 
  - Are you interested in buying a bridge?  spooked911   May-18-09 06:12 AM   #4 
  - No, and I doubt you have one to sell (n/t)  vincent_vega_lives   May-18-09 07:15 AM   #6 
  - Sure, what do you have?  LARED   May-18-09 05:48 PM   #23 
  - I have a question...  SDuderstadt   May-18-09 07:16 PM   #28 
     - Sure you can  LARED   May-18-09 07:39 PM   #30 
        - Well, then....  SDuderstadt   May-18-09 07:50 PM   #31 
  - Are you the broker for Simon Shack's "moving bridge"?  William Seger   May-18-09 06:19 PM   #26 
  - I believe  vincent_vega_lives   May-18-09 07:26 AM   #7 
  - So, even though Dick Cheney and Rex Tomb both claim....  BeachBaby   May-18-09 08:17 AM   #8 
  - Yes  vincent_vega_lives   May-18-09 11:49 AM   #11 
  - How about confessions on video?  wildbilln864   May-18-09 05:38 PM   #22 
  - I'd love to see some proof of this claim...  SDuderstadt   May-18-09 12:18 PM   #15 
  - The FBI website.  BeachBaby   May-18-09 12:49 PM   #16 
     - Umm, I was asking for a reference to something either...  SDuderstadt   May-18-09 01:06 PM   #17 
        - Of course I do; but he's not wanted for 9/11.  BeachBaby   May-18-09 01:14 PM   #18 
        - Bullshit...it says nothing of the sort....  SDuderstadt   May-18-09 01:20 PM   #19 
        - Oh, really?  BeachBaby   May-18-09 01:26 PM   #20 
        - It's YOUR fucking claim!  SDuderstadt   May-18-09 07:15 PM   #27 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   May-18-09 10:39 PM   #40 
              - maybe you haven't read enough of his posts  OnTheOtherHand   May-19-09 04:44 AM   #47 
                 - Of course, here's what the 9/11 CT's and the Muckraker Report don't bother to tell you...  SDuderstadt   May-19-09 08:37 PM   #50 
                 - The fact remains that as of now, DOJ doesn't have sufficient  able1   May-19-09 08:44 PM   #51 
                 - Dude....who says they don't have sufficient evidence to indict him?  SDuderstadt   May-19-09 08:51 PM   #52 
                    - DOJ. EOM  able1   May-19-09 08:54 PM   #53 
                       - Wtf?  SDuderstadt   May-19-09 09:13 PM   #54 
                          - There's so much stupid in that reply that I don't even know where to begin...  Ghost in the Machine   May-19-09 09:30 PM   #56 
                             - he has that problem a lot evidently.  wildbilln864   May-20-09 08:25 PM   #80 
                                - Have you seen this one?  Ghost in the Machine   May-20-09 09:20 PM   #84 
                 - Oh jeez, more of your goofy fucking claims...  Ghost in the Machine   May-19-09 09:24 PM   #55 
                    - but wouldn't a video taped confession be hard evidence?  wildbilln864   May-20-09 08:30 PM   #81 
                       - Would they indict Fat Osama or Skinny Osama?  Ghost in the Machine   May-20-09 09:28 PM   #85 
                          - Thanks Ghost. Hope you & yours are too!  wildbilln864   May-20-09 11:47 PM   #94 
                 - oh, I read all his posts.. they're good for comedic value...  Ghost in the Machine   May-19-09 11:04 PM   #57 
        - Pretty straightforward.  Old and In the Way   May-19-09 01:40 AM   #42 
        - Maybe that explains why Pres. Bush said he (obl) isn't very  able1   May-18-09 08:47 PM   #33 
           - As much as I despise W...  SDuderstadt   May-18-09 09:26 PM   #35 
        - Rex Tomb interviewed by The Muckraker Report  Ghost in the Machine   May-19-09 02:02 AM   #43 
  - Please link us to anywhere Dick Cheney or Rex Tomb ever said...  SDuderstadt   May-18-09 07:18 PM   #29 
     - Read post #43... and wipe that egg off your face (again) n/t  Ghost in the Machine   May-19-09 07:43 PM   #49 
  - I don't think any of us is defending the "OCT".  AZCat   May-18-09 08:22 AM   #9 
  - Correct  vincent_vega_lives   May-18-09 11:51 AM   #12 
  - Not defending?  BeFree   May-18-09 10:32 PM   #38 
     - Partly  vincent_vega_lives   May-19-09 07:03 PM   #48 
  - Let your freak flag fly  LARED   May-18-09 05:54 PM   #24 
     - a basic conceptual disconnect  OnTheOtherHand   May-18-09 08:01 PM   #32 
     - Point taken, the bottom line is that  LARED   May-18-09 09:09 PM   #34 
        - I guess I try to write for the lurkers  OnTheOtherHand   May-19-09 04:38 AM   #46 
     - Certainly, elements of the "OCT" are worth defending.  AZCat   May-18-09 10:01 PM   #36 
  - My condolences  whatchamacallit   May-18-09 08:54 AM   #10 
  - A BS detector isn't much good  vincent_vega_lives   May-18-09 11:52 AM   #13 
  - Tell ya what  William Seger   May-18-09 11:53 AM   #14 
  - Mine is proven  BeFree   May-18-09 10:27 PM   #37 
     - Yeah, I know what yours is  William Seger   May-19-09 12:06 AM   #41 
  - Hardly needed; this forum calibrates  LARED   May-18-09 05:55 PM   #25 
  - yes!  wildbilln864   May-18-09 05:34 PM   #21 
  - Stupendous!!  BeFree   May-18-09 10:35 PM   #39 
  - Why did Bush and his cronies try to tie 9-11 to Saddam Hussein and Iraq?  Octafish   May-20-09 07:20 AM   #73 
  - I think that falls under the concept  LARED   May-20-09 10:10 PM   #86 
  - Pass up?  BeFree   May-20-09 10:32 PM   #90 
     - Nope I don't see it.  LARED   May-21-09 05:32 AM   #97 
     - Proof?????  Realityhack   May-22-09 12:28 PM   #113 
  - Why didn't they do a better job of it?  Bolo Boffin   May-20-09 10:28 PM   #89 
     - They did bake Iraq into it.  BeFree   May-20-09 10:43 PM   #91 
        - Please go play your games somewhere else.  Bolo Boffin   May-20-09 10:58 PM   #92 
           - Why?  BeFree   May-21-09 01:28 PM   #102 
           - Is it possible for you to miss this point so completely?  Bolo Boffin   May-21-09 02:27 PM   #103 
           - The beauty of you disproving your own hypothisis  Realityhack   May-22-09 12:31 PM   #114 
           - They didn't do that because it wasn't possible.  CJCRANE   May-22-09 09:20 AM   #111 
  - Magical thinker = Zero skeptic. What does LARED Doubt?  PufPuf23   May-20-09 11:22 PM   #93 
     - I have no doubt that all  LARED   May-23-09 07:06 AM   #116 
     - you got owned....again. live with it.  Twist_U_Up   May-24-09 05:36 AM   #119 
        - Somehow I'll stuggle on LOL nt  LARED   May-24-09 05:41 AM   #120 
        - He did indeed.  Prometheus Bound   May-24-09 04:12 PM   #121 
     - Interesting points, food for thought nt  CJCRANE   May-23-09 10:49 AM   #118 
 

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