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Reply #98: Your comparison is illegitimate. [View All]

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Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » September 11 Donate to DU
Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-09 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #97
98. Your comparison is illegitimate.
Indeed, it was the tower whose perimeter grid was damaged most that fell first.

The only thing that has to happen is allowing the static load of the upper section to become a dynamic load, i.e., allow it to begin moving independently of the rest of the building. Once that happened, the upper section quickly gained enough momentum to tear through joints and begin its descent. And no one joint could have resisted that mass in motion.

Both collapses finally started when one entire side of the perimeter along one floor was pulled in by the sagging floor trusses. Once the perimeter could no longer balance the upper mass (balance being a matter of lateral loading), the collapse was inevitable.
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  -Comparison of WTC 7 and Mandarin Oriental Hotel, Beijing Subdivisions  Feb-09-09 05:41 PM   #0 
  - Facile comparison, meant to capitalize on actual knowledge about both buildings. n/t  Bolo Boffin   Feb-09-09 05:50 PM   #1 
  - Bloomberg just said it was a steel AND concrete structure.  Bolo Boffin   Feb-09-09 08:59 PM   #2 
  - Hey thanks  seemslikeadream   Feb-09-09 09:26 PM   #3 
  - Fire has never brought down  rollingrock   Feb-10-09 01:39 AM   #4 
  - Why do they fireproof them then, if fire "never will"? n/t  Bolo Boffin   Feb-10-09 02:33 AM   #5 
  - Prolonged fires on upper floors  rollingrock   Feb-10-09 02:55 PM   #24 
     - "Fire would have no effect on the structural integrity of the massive core columns"  Bolo Boffin   Feb-10-09 03:21 PM   #26 
        - how do you know that they do?  rollingrock   Feb-10-09 03:34 PM   #33 
           - How do you know that they don't?  Bolo Boffin   Feb-10-09 03:38 PM   #36 
              - I never said that they did or didn't  rollingrock   Feb-10-09 05:21 PM   #44 
                 - Because the fireproofing of all floors of the 3 WTC buildings are well documented in the reports  Bolo Boffin   Feb-10-09 06:09 PM   #51 
  - How many modern steel structures  hack89   Feb-10-09 06:01 AM   #8 
     - WTC 7 wasn't hit by a plane. n/t  Subdivisions   Feb-10-09 10:08 AM   #9 
     - You would think by now that "misCONception" had been laid to rest  seemslikeadream   Feb-10-09 11:28 AM   #10 
     - Have you still never found a link to the complete collapse of WTC 7?  Bolo Boffin   Feb-10-09 12:05 PM   #14 
     - It was hit by debris from the North Tower. It also burned for seven hours  Bolo Boffin   Feb-10-09 12:04 PM   #13 
     - There are FDNY accounts of massive structural damage  hack89   Feb-10-09 05:26 PM   #47 
     - Simple physics  rollingrock   Feb-10-09 03:14 PM   #25 
        - "controlled demolition experts set the explosives to go off at the base of a building"  Bolo Boffin   Feb-10-09 03:21 PM   #27 
        - Once again  rollingrock   Feb-10-09 03:30 PM   #32 
           - Depends on the building.  Bolo Boffin   Feb-10-09 03:37 PM   #35 
           - That's a non-answer  rollingrock   Feb-10-09 05:15 PM   #43 
              - You've changed the question.  Bolo Boffin   Feb-10-09 06:08 PM   #50 
                 - I didn't change the question  rollingrock   Feb-10-09 06:16 PM   #53 
                    - Yes, you did.  Bolo Boffin   Feb-10-09 06:41 PM   #55 
                       - And you still refuse to answer either question n/t  rollingrock   Feb-10-09 08:07 PM   #59 
                          - No, I did.  Bolo Boffin   Feb-10-09 08:10 PM   #60 
                             - Going round in round in circles again  rollingrock   Feb-10-09 08:16 PM   #62 
                                - Who said the impacts could not have caused the collapses?  AZCat   Feb-10-09 08:18 PM   #63 
                                - Nice try.  Bolo Boffin   Feb-10-09 08:20 PM   #64 
                                   - That is what you claim  rollingrock   Feb-10-09 08:34 PM   #65 
                                      - "where's the evidence"  Bolo Boffin   Feb-10-09 08:40 PM   #66 
                                         - The NIST goes around and around in circles  rollingrock   Feb-10-09 09:07 PM   #68 
                                            - Ahh. n/t  Bolo Boffin   Feb-10-09 09:16 PM   #69 
           - Doesn't that depend on how much building there was above the explosion? nt  hack89   Feb-10-09 05:24 PM   #46 
           - The impact took place on or near 90th floor of the buildings  rollingrock   Feb-10-09 05:58 PM   #49 
              - So much did that piece of the tower weigh?  hack89   Feb-10-09 06:39 PM   #54 
                 - How much did that piece weigh?  rollingrock   Feb-10-09 10:20 PM   #71 
                    - Do you know the difference between dynamic load and static load?  Bolo Boffin   Feb-10-09 10:32 PM   #72 
                    - You raise an interesting point  rollingrock   Feb-10-09 10:54 PM   #73 
                       - Nice picture.  Bolo Boffin   Feb-10-09 11:18 PM   #76 
                          - thats quite the pic there bolo ...  mrgerbik   Feb-11-09 01:05 AM   #78 
                          - Misdirection  Bolo Boffin   Feb-11-09 01:08 AM   #79 
                          - thats funny i was about to reply to your pic as misdirection...  mrgerbik   Feb-11-09 01:20 AM   #80 
                             - So you don't understand the difference between dynamic and static loads?  Bolo Boffin   Feb-11-09 02:10 AM   #84 
                                - why dont you explain it to me  mrgerbik   Feb-11-09 02:54 PM   #99 
                                   - Glad to.  Bolo Boffin   Feb-11-09 02:57 PM   #100 
                                      - thats kinetic and potential energy  mrgerbik   Feb-11-09 03:18 PM   #102 
                                      - Nope.  Bolo Boffin   Feb-11-09 03:28 PM   #103 
                                      - "Off topic. Distracting squid ink."...  mrgerbik   Feb-11-09 07:31 PM   #106 
                                      - I'm going to respond to this, but I don't have the time and available attention to do it now.  Bolo Boffin   Feb-11-09 08:11 PM   #107 
                                      - faith based worldview  mrgerbik   Feb-11-09 10:30 PM   #108 
                                      - I don't think that's the crux of the so-called OCT at all.  AZCat   Feb-11-09 10:41 PM   #109 
                                      - believe me i never wanted to throw out 'common sense'  mrgerbik   Feb-12-09 12:28 AM   #110 
                                      - I agree.  AZCat   Feb-12-09 12:34 AM   #111 
                                      - well the only thing i can add  mrgerbik   Feb-12-09 01:02 AM   #112 
                                      - Perhaps.  AZCat   Feb-12-09 01:18 AM   #113 
                          - LMAO  rollingrock   Feb-11-09 02:10 AM   #83 
                          - Do you believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy too?  rollingrock   Feb-11-09 02:07 AM   #81 
                             - Please stop beating straw men.  Bolo Boffin   Feb-11-09 02:10 AM   #82 
                                - Uhh,  rollingrock   Feb-11-09 02:17 AM   #85 
                                   - Number one, you need to provide evidence to support that first assertion.  Bolo Boffin   Feb-11-09 02:24 AM   #86 
                                   - What was the perimeter grid designed to do?  rollingrock   Feb-11-09 01:00 PM   #91 
                                      - As you say, lateral loads, but you're missing a few things.  Bolo Boffin   Feb-11-09 01:52 PM   #96 
                                         - How much of the perimeter was destroyed by the plane impact?  rollingrock   Feb-11-09 02:19 PM   #97 
                                         - Your comparison is illegitimate.  Bolo Boffin   Feb-11-09 02:36 PM   #98 
                                         - Of course  rollingrock   Feb-11-09 03:42 PM   #104 
                                         - "if the core columns were taken out of the way first" - No, and the NIST explanation doesn't rely on  Bolo Boffin   Feb-11-09 03:52 PM   #105 
                                   - The DCRs calculated by NIST belie that claim. n/t  AZCat   Feb-11-09 10:38 AM   #90 
                    - Static vice dynamic loads have always mystified truthers  hack89   Feb-11-09 06:07 AM   #87 
           - That depends on what you mean by "giant".  AZCat   Feb-10-09 09:23 PM   #70 
              - "Tsar" Bomba?  rollingrock   Feb-10-09 10:57 PM   #74 
                 - It was.  AZCat   Feb-10-09 11:11 PM   #75 
                    - 50 megatons!  rollingrock   Feb-10-09 11:32 PM   #77 
                       - The biggest.  AZCat   Feb-11-09 09:39 AM   #88 
                          - Overkill, haha  rollingrock   Feb-11-09 01:21 PM   #95 
        - Simple physics  hack89   Feb-10-09 05:23 PM   #45 
  - If the hotel had collapsed, would you have noted the differences in design?  greyl   Feb-10-09 02:48 AM   #6 
  - Very evil people did 911. Very delusional stupid people swallow the lie.  Twist_U_Up   Feb-10-09 03:59 AM   #7 
  - and they were not Muslims  seemslikeadream   Feb-10-09 11:32 AM   #11 
     - Yes, they were. n/t  Bolo Boffin   Feb-10-09 12:06 PM   #15 
        - well ya maybe some but they weren't in charge although they may have thought so  seemslikeadream   Feb-10-09 12:25 PM   #16 
        - Make up your mind. n/t  Bolo Boffin   Feb-10-09 02:39 PM   #22 
        - Many of the named hijackers are still alive  rollingrock   Feb-10-09 12:55 PM   #17 
           - Now you're "rebunking" totally debunked 9/11 CT nonsense....  SDuderstadt   Feb-10-09 01:02 PM   #18 
           - Tell it to the FBI Director  rollingrock   Feb-10-09 01:08 PM   #19 
              - Why don't you ask him yourself and...  SDuderstadt   Feb-10-09 03:36 PM   #34 
           - An update to that story (Sept 23, 2001) was published by BBC in 2006.  Bolo Boffin   Feb-10-09 02:41 PM   #23 
              - It's amazing  rollingrock   Feb-10-09 03:28 PM   #29 
                 - The hijackers had to buy tickets and were listed on the manifest.  Bolo Boffin   Feb-10-09 03:30 PM   #31 
                 - What's amazing is how many times you can be simply wrong about things....  SDuderstadt   Feb-10-09 03:40 PM   #37 
                    - "It was one"  rollingrock   Feb-10-09 05:48 PM   #48 
                       - Wow.  Bolo Boffin   Feb-10-09 06:15 PM   #52 
                       - So, in essence, ONE was found at Ground ZERO....  SDuderstadt   Feb-10-09 07:15 PM   #56 
                          - sorry, no cigar.  rollingrock   Feb-10-09 08:10 PM   #61 
                             - Wrong...you assumed that's what I meant...  SDuderstadt   Feb-11-09 01:05 PM   #92 
  - none of those ultra-combustible naked short selling files that'll melt structural steel laying about  seemslikeadream   Feb-10-09 11:43 AM   #12 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Feb-10-09 01:22 PM   #20 
  - By the way, has it fallen yet?  seemslikeadream   Feb-10-09 01:25 PM   #21 
  - My question still is, why are there a handful of people on the 911 sites...  LakeSamish706   Feb-10-09 03:24 PM   #28 
  - Because, not unlike the Pentagon Media Team Rummy put in place  Subdivisions   Feb-10-09 03:29 PM   #30 
  - There was plenty of wrongdoing on 9/11....  SDuderstadt   Feb-10-09 03:44 PM   #38 
     - And what I mean by wrong doing is a complicit Government involvement in 911.  LakeSamish706   Feb-10-09 03:47 PM   #39 
        - Hijacking airplanes and....  SDuderstadt   Feb-10-09 04:34 PM   #40 
           - And have you ever noticed that you are one of the persons steadfastly deny any ....  LakeSamish706   Feb-10-09 04:35 PM   #41 
              - I deny that there was the kind of conspiracy you seem to cling to....  SDuderstadt   Feb-10-09 04:44 PM   #42 
                 - It's been established that the fires alone could not have caused the collapses  whatchamacallit   Feb-11-09 10:23 AM   #89 
                    - Have you even read the NIST report?  SDuderstadt   Feb-11-09 01:15 PM   #93 
                    - Unintentional dupe  SDuderstadt   Feb-11-09 01:15 PM   #94 
  - IMO the NIST report was created by liars or fools, your choice  whatchamacallit   Feb-10-09 07:19 PM   #57 
  - No, that' sYOUR choice.  AZCat   Feb-10-09 07:28 PM   #58 
     - True (nt)  whatchamacallit   Feb-10-09 08:59 PM   #67 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Feb-11-09 03:01 PM   #101 
  - By the way, has it fallen yet?  seemslikeadream   Feb-12-09 10:13 AM   #114 
     - Have you checked out my new thread on this?  Bolo Boffin   Feb-12-09 10:48 AM   #115 
        - WTC7 was NOT hit by a plane, did you know that?  seemslikeadream   Feb-12-09 11:57 AM   #116 
           - But two buildings next to it were -- they collapsed, severing the water main  Bolo Boffin   Feb-12-09 01:24 PM   #117 
 

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