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Flight 175: quite a mysterious flight ... [View All]

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John Doe II (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Oct-08-04 05:29 AM
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Flight 175: quite a mysterious flight ...
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What’s so mysterious about Flight 175 ?


Flight 175 was certainly the least mysterious of all four flights on 9/11. Literally billons of people saw it crash into the WTC. Flight 175 was the only plane that was to be seen live on television.
Also the last minute of this flight seem to contain no mystery:
At 8:40 happened the last transmission from UA 175. It stated that they had heard a suspicious transmission (most likely from Flight 11). Minutes later it turned southwest without clearance from air traffic control. At 8:47 it’s transponder code changed, and then changed again.
(Commission Report, p. 21)

Also Michael McCormick, the FAA's New York air traffic manager had nothing mysterious to tell in “a press conference in which air traffic controllers in New York, Boston, and Washington, D.C., made their first extensive public comments since the attacks.”
(Boston Globe, 8/13/02)

Mr. MIKE McCORMICK (New York Air Traffic Manager): We tracked that aircraft as it turned southbound and then back northeast-bound, back toward Manhattan. I assumed at that point that that target of that aircraft was, in fact, the World Trade Center.
ORR: Controllers tracked the hijacked jet for 11 agonizing and helpless minutes.
Mr. McCORMICK: For those 11 minutes, I knew, we knew, what was going to happen, and that was difficult.

(CBS, 8/13/02)

''Probably one of the most difficult moments in my life was the 11 minutes from the point I watched that aircraft when we first lost communication to the point that aircraft hit the World Trade Center.
(Boston Globe, 8/13/02)
(Ottawa Citizen, 8/13/03)

So contrary to Flight 77 which disappeared completely from the radar there was never a big problem with Flight 175. And the Commission Report states:
9:20 UA headquarters aware that Flight 175 had crashed into WTC (p. 32)
Unfortunately this is simply not true. To put it mildly.
While the confirmation that Flight 11, 93 and 77 crashed didn’t take long United Airlines seemed to have big problems to figure out what was going on with their Flight 175.
So in the ABC Special News Report from 11:00 – 12:00 United Airlines is quoted:

“United is also saying now that they are concerned about a further flight that apparently is still missing, flight 175. It is a Boeing 767. It was scheduled from Boston to Los Angeles. That flight apparently is still unaccounted for, according to officials from United.”
(ABC, 9/11/01 11:00 – 12:00)

So at least two hours after Flight 175 crashed into the WTC and being no mystery to the controllers UA still has no clue where his airplane is!


And things will become even stranger:
UA confirms that Flight 175 crashed but ….:
“United Airlines Flight 175: A Boeing 767 crashes. The flight was bound from Boston to Los Angeles. It carried 56 passengers, two pilots and seven flight attendants. The airline would not say where that plane crashed.”
(Seattle Times, 9/11/01)
(San Francisco Chronicle, 9/11/01)
(AP, 9/11/01)
(Atlanta Journal-Constitution, 9/11/01)
(ABC, 9/11/01 11:00 – 12:00)

Uups! Now they know that it crashed but not where or don’t want to say it??


So, excuse me dear Commissioners, United Airlines was certainly NOT aware at 9:20 that Flight 175 had crashed into the WTC.

The first one to mention that Flight 175 crashed is NBC minutes before noon. (Until 11:30 they only had three confirmed flights that had been involved in 9/11).
CNN states on September 12, 2001 that United Airlines confirmed at 11:59 that Flight 175 had crashed. (The other three flights had been already confirmed long before).
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/chronology.attack /

So, it took almost three hours to figure that out.


But the mystery hasn’t finished here:

The first guess which airplane had hit the second tower was not Flight 175 but surprise surprise:
Let’s switch on the television:

“So we believe that the two aircraft have flown into the Trade Towers, both belonged to American Airlines, and they had both been hijacked and there were 90 passengers and crew on the first plane and 60 passengers and crew on the second plane.”
ABC, 9/11/01 10:00

So, the first information was that AA 77 had hit the WTC (and not the Pentagon).
Two hours after the second attack:

“And Flight 77, a Boeing 757 offering from Washington Dulles to Los Angeles with 58 passengers and four flight attendants and two pilots, may--that--that--that aircraft is a little more uncertain. That is not a huge--it's a big aircraft, a 757, but we have--we're not certain whether that's the one that went into the Pentagon or whether it's one of the other aircraft that went into the Twin Trade Towers.”
ABC, 11:00

Three hours after the second attack:

“We have the two at the trade towers in New York City, we're not certain but we believe both of those are somehow connected to American Airlines but we're not sure of that, absolutely sure.”
ABC, 12.00

Four hours after the second attack the confusion reaches its climax:

LYNN SHERR: That--what--what you're seeing is the north tower. Behind it there's a second identical tower, as you know. That plane crashed right into it. All morning we have been told by American Airlines, among others, that that flight, that airplane, was actually American Airlines Flight 77 going out of Dulles to Los Angeles. We were told 58 passengers, four flight attendants, two pilots on that plane. It was hijacked at 9:03--I'm sorry, it was hijacked right after takeoff. Crashed into the tower at 9:03 AM.

JENNINGS: Let me stop you right there, Lynn, because I just--I have had different information so I'm going to rely on you here. You now believe the American Airlines Flight 77 which took off from Dulles on its way to Los Angeles, crashed into the Trade towers, not into the Pentagon?

SHERR: We were told that originally. What I'm about to tell you is the FBI is now saying that that's the one that went into the Pentagon. The FBI spokesperson is saying that the flight that went into World Trade Center tower number two, that's south tower, was, in fact United Airlines 175, a Boeing 767 that left Boston for LAX, departed at 7:58 AM this morning; 56 passengers, two pilots, seven flight attendants. This is confusing, I apologize. We are getting two different answers to our questions.

(ABC, 9/11/01 1 p.m. – 2 p.m.)


And although NBC reported “already” at 11:59 that Flight 175 crashed into the WTC this confusion between Flight 77 and 175 is not simply a problem of ABC. Just two further examples:


“We know for sure at least 92 people were aboard American Airlines Flight 11, a Boeing 676--excuse me, 767, en route from Boston to Los Angeles, which crashed into the building. Another 64 were aboard the second flight that crashed into the building, American Airlines Flight 77. That's a Boeing 757 that was en route from Dulles airport near Washington, DC, to Los Angeles.”
(National Public Radio, 9/11/01)

“A second aircraft that crashed into the Trade Center is said also to have been an American Airlines aircraft with 60 passengers. It was apparently flying from Washington Dulles bound for Los Angeles before being hijacked.”
(Air Transport Intelligence, 9/11/01)


Confusion might help explain a bit (although McCormick didn’t seem to be very confused about Flight 175) but how is it possible to confuse Flight 77 with Flight 175?
While Flight 175 never vanished completely from the radar Flight 77 switched off its transponder only at 8:56. Anybody ready to explain how Flight 77 could have managed to fly to New York within 7 minutes? Or how on earth can one possibly confound Flight 77 and Flight 175

Why was the most visible of all hijacked flights so mysterious?

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  Flight 175: quite a mysterious flight ... John Doe II  Oct-08-04 05:29 AM   #0 
   UA 175 trajectory  seatnineb   Oct-08-04 09:40 AM   #1 
   Burnback interview.  seatnineb   Oct-08-04 10:36 AM   #2 
   BROOKLYN??????  MercutioATC   Oct-08-04 12:24 PM   #3 
   Fair point.....  seatnineb   Oct-08-04 01:21 PM   #4 
      We all saw similar video (the plane appearing to go through)...  MercutioATC   Oct-08-04 01:46 PM   #5 
         That you could see it from Brooklyn  John Doe II   Oct-08-04 02:42 PM   #6 
            But he could see that it had "no windows" from Brooklyn?  MercutioATC   Oct-08-04 02:47 PM   #7 
               Excuse me  John Doe II   Oct-08-04 02:50 PM   #8 
                  I think it's a good question to ask...and one that deserves an answer.  MercutioATC   Oct-08-04 06:32 PM   #11 
                     Good to hear  John Doe II   Oct-09-04 10:47 AM   #12 
                        Dulce's arguement is, I believe, unfounded.  MercutioATC   Oct-09-04 11:22 AM   #13 
                           No  John Doe II   Oct-09-04 11:28 AM   #14 
                              Again, the initial information was conflicting.  MercutioATC   Oct-09-04 11:37 AM   #15 
                                 Ok  John Doe II   Oct-09-04 11:45 AM   #16 
                                    Again, I agree it's a question that bears asking.  MercutioATC   Oct-09-04 12:00 PM   #17 
                                       Ok  John Doe II   Oct-09-04 12:12 PM   #18 
                                          I have no idea.  MercutioATC   Oct-09-04 10:52 PM   #21 
                                          It doesn't. Your question is clear and obvious. He has no answer for it.  stickdog   Oct-09-04 11:14 PM   #22 
                                             I'll go with a fifth option...  MercutioATC   Oct-09-04 11:22 PM   #23 
   I'm still  MrSammo1   Nov-11-04 02:45 AM   #43 
   Rewriting history.  DulceDecorum   Oct-08-04 03:26 PM   #9 
   Thanks!  John Doe II   Oct-08-04 03:44 PM   #10 
      washington post also said 77 hit WTC  RedSock   Oct-09-04 03:09 PM   #19 
         Thanks  John Doe II   Oct-09-04 04:44 PM   #20 
   Further question  John Doe II   Oct-10-04 04:32 PM   #24 
   Let me see if I understand your position  LARED   Oct-11-04 09:06 AM   #25 
   Facts and Fiction  John Doe II   Oct-11-04 09:16 AM   #26 
      Quick comments  LARED   Oct-11-04 10:32 AM   #27 
         The same UA dispatcher, Ed Ballinger, worked both flights.  stickdog   Oct-11-04 11:01 AM   #28 
            And slice it and dice it six ways till Sunday  tngledwebb   Oct-11-04 11:33 AM   #29 
            Was Ed Ballinger the communication link to the outside?  LARED   Oct-11-04 11:40 AM   #30 
               Please explain why when UA announced Flight 93 had crashed, they  stickdog   Oct-11-04 11:50 AM   #31 
                  Do you expect a definitive answer?  LARED   Oct-11-04 12:14 PM   #32 
                     Commission Report states  John Doe II   Oct-11-04 01:38 PM   #33 
                     Honestly  LARED   Oct-11-04 02:03 PM   #35 
                        Honestly  John Doe II   Oct-11-04 02:15 PM   #36 
                           I find nothing that screams problem  LARED   Oct-11-04 02:30 PM   #37 
                              Not that easy  John Doe II   Oct-11-04 02:34 PM   #38 
                     Commission Report states  John Doe II   Oct-11-04 01:40 PM   #34 
   Anybody has an idea?  John Doe II   Oct-19-04 02:59 PM   #39 
   Precision  John Doe II   Nov-01-04 08:05 AM   #40 
   I change the question  John Doe II   Nov-10-04 05:29 PM   #41 
   What if.......  Old and In the Way   Nov-12-04 12:30 PM   #44 
      Hard to believe  John Doe II   Nov-12-04 04:53 PM   #46 
   Manager of American Airlineq  John Doe II   Nov-10-04 05:34 PM   #42 
   AA77 flightpath  Old and In the Way   Nov-12-04 01:49 PM   #45 
      The bump  John Doe II   Nov-12-04 04:56 PM   #47 
         That's where I took the pic from.  Old and In the Way   Nov-12-04 05:12 PM   #48 
         I was just reading another thread about Vigilant Guardian.  Old and In the Way   Nov-12-04 05:15 PM   #49 
   The funny thing about most corporations is....  Make7   Nov-27-04 10:15 PM   #50 
   Hm  k-robjoe   Nov-28-04 09:03 AM   #51 
   By United Airlines? eom.  Make7   Nov-29-04 03:38 AM   #52 
      No, American Airlines 77!  John Doe II   Nov-29-04 03:52 AM   #53 
         From the first post:  Make7   Nov-29-04 05:29 AM   #54 
            Thanks a lot for your detailed questions!  John Doe II   Dec-01-04 08:20 AM   #56 
               UA lost contact  John Doe II   Dec-01-04 04:30 PM   #57 
               The object doesn't need to do anything  Make7   Dec-01-04 10:04 PM   #60 
                  UA 175 never switched off its transponder  John Doe II   Dec-02-04 06:20 PM   #62 
               I personally have none.  Make7   Dec-01-04 09:40 PM   #59 
                  Don't worry  John Doe II   Dec-02-04 06:24 PM   #63 
                     I'd like to look at it too.  Make7   Dec-03-04 08:56 AM   #67 
   Because they knew that UAL93 crashed in PA.  MercutioATC   Nov-29-04 11:36 PM   #55 
      Thanks for responding.  Make7   Dec-01-04 08:52 PM   #58 
      Transponder answer:  MercutioATC   Dec-02-04 04:45 AM   #61 
         A few more questions:  Make7   Dec-03-04 01:05 AM   #65 
            Your first question  John Doe II   Dec-03-04 03:36 AM   #66 
            RE: UA 175 never switched off its transponder  Make7   Dec-03-04 10:06 AM   #68 
               "This allow(s) controllers"  John Doe II   Dec-04-04 04:45 PM   #71 
            Here's how our computers work:  MercutioATC   Dec-03-04 09:03 PM   #69 
               That clears up my confusion. Thank you. n/t  Make7   Dec-04-04 07:49 AM   #70 
      Here I can't agree  John Doe II   Dec-02-04 06:30 PM   #64 
   I wonder if the confusion UA had with flight 175 had something to do with  spooked911   Feb-01-05 09:52 PM   #72 
      The problem with that supposition:  MercutioATC   Feb-02-05 07:28 AM   #73 
         It was a "real" flight that took off and could be tracked by radar but  spooked911   Feb-02-05 09:12 AM   #74 
            My point is that the flight was seen leaving the gate.  MercutioATC   Feb-02-05 09:15 AM   #75 
               Then why was United so confused about their own flight?  spooked911   Feb-02-05 11:43 AM   #76 
 

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