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Reply #50: Shannan has nothing to do with it. It's Noguchi, the coroner. [View All]

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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. Shannan has nothing to do with it. It's Noguchi, the coroner.
The autopsy findings are well-known, not in dispute, and available from dozens of sources not by someone named Shannan, including Noguchi himself in his own book.

So stop using Shannan as your shield to thinking. It's obtuse.

(Note: I also didn't say you "demonized" Shannan, but gave an illustrative example of the fallacy you insist upon repeating, that if you find an author personally suspect, you need not consider his factual statements on their own, even when they are verifiable independently of the author's citation. So if a fact is cited even by Hitler, it can still be true.)

Homework is not hard. Here's the second google hit on "Noguchi powder burns Kennedy":

Los Angeles Coroner Thomas Noguchi conducted the official autopsy on the body of Robert Francis Kennedy on the morning of July 6. This very experienced coroner removed one intact bullet and fragments from another. The operation was witnessed by, according to writer Dan Moldea, "three forensic pathologists from the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology in Washington and by two of Noguchi’s associates."

In his resulting 62-page report, Noguchi stated that the shot that killed RFK "had entered through the mastoid bone, an inch behind the right ear and had traveled upward to sever the branches of the superior cerebral artery." The largest fragment of that bullet lodged in the brain stem.

(much detail follows on bullets and their probable paths...)

One more issue remained, one that neither Noguchi, the LAPD, nor the witnesses at the crime scene could explain – and one that continues to haunt theorists and historians of the assassination to this day. The shot that both Noguchi and the Los Angeles conclude killed Kennedy – the one that entered the back of his neck, fragmented upon impact and lodged in his brain stem – was fired so close that it left thick powder burns on the skin. Coroner Noguchi estimates (and the LAPD concurs) that the shot was fired at a range no more distant than one-and-a-half inches. Yet, according to all witnesses, Sirhan Sirhan shot in front of Kennedy and, as far as anyone knew, the senator never had the chance to turn his back towards his hunter.

Even though Noguchi remained tight-lipped and diplomatic at the time, in his biography that he penned a decade later – entitled Coroner -- he wrote, "Until more is precisely known…the existence of a second gunman remains a possibility. Thus, I have never said that Sirhan Sirhan killed Robert Kennedy."

As I remember, and here's something you can look up yourself in exchange for my doing basic research on your behalf: Noguchi's autopsy findings were not admitted into the Sirhan trial due to the incompetence of the defense attorney (who was also not named Shannan).
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  -Experts: Sirhan Sirhan Did Not Kill RFK seemslikeadream  Mar-26-08 05:26 PM   #0 
  - Glad you posted this.  Hope2006   Mar-26-08 05:33 PM   #1 
  - Sirhan and the RFK Assassination  seemslikeadream   Mar-26-08 09:53 PM   #3 
     - Rowan and Martin's Laugh-In: a Robert Maheu Production?  MinM   Apr-15-08 11:03 PM   #62 
        - They don't just assassinate; they make sure that avenues to remedies are closed . . .  defendandprotect   Apr-17-08 08:41 PM   #70 
        - That's exactly right...  MinM   Apr-19-08 03:47 PM   #73 
           - Ex-Howard Hughes spokesman, CIA operative dies  MinM   Aug-06-08 12:11 PM   #81 
        - John Meier says the Howard Hughes organization was involved in the RFK assassination  MinM   Jun-05-08 02:01 PM   #79 
           - Have you seen these vids?  seemslikeadream   Jun-05-08 02:08 PM   #80 
           - Playboy: The Puppet and the Puppetmasters  MinM   Jan-29-09 09:06 PM   #86 
              - CIA took money from any RW sources -- including KKK and Nazis ....  defendandprotect   Dec-03-11 01:09 AM   #109 
  - Did you know that gullible isn't in the dictionary?????  boloboffin   Mar-26-08 05:58 PM   #2 
  - Gullible is believing the same government claimed Saddam had WMDs on stand-by.  Octafish   Apr-05-08 01:26 PM   #8 
  - Sadly, "irrelevant" is in the dictionary.  boloboffin   Apr-05-08 01:35 PM   #9 
  - Is that not amusing?  seemslikeadream   Apr-05-08 02:02 PM   #10 
  - Never let facts get in the way of a good story!  PhD   Nov-04-09 10:42 PM   #98 
  - And we'd have got away with it if it weren't for  Laurier   Apr-05-08 02:12 AM   #4 
  - ..  seemslikeadream   Apr-05-08 09:51 AM   #5 
  - Hm...  k-robjoe   Apr-05-08 11:06 AM   #6 
  - Debunkers: Where's the sarcastic know-nothing response on Uecker?  JackRiddler   Apr-05-08 03:16 PM   #11 
  - Whatever happened to Dan Moldea?  Octafish   Apr-05-08 06:36 PM   #12 
  - I haven't seen him on my TV  seemslikeadream   Apr-05-08 08:08 PM   #13 
  - Moldea wrote 'Dark Victory: Reagan, MCA & the Mob'  Octafish   Apr-06-08 12:55 AM   #15 
     - Apparently making that 'NFL-mafia connection' got Moldea blackballed  MinM   Apr-07-08 06:55 PM   #27 
        - Dan Moldea and the DC Madam  MinM   May-12-08 07:41 AM   #75 
           - Looks like Dan Moldea is there is create lies and attest to them -- !!  defendandprotect   Dec-03-11 01:21 AM   #112 
  - Moldea was still being pushed up to a few years ago -- always thought him a player for RW side ....  defendandprotect   Dec-03-11 01:20 AM   #111 
  - Good question! n/t  Hope2006   Apr-06-08 12:50 AM   #14 
  - I've been waiting for the sarcastic know-nothing attack on debunkers.  boloboffin   Apr-06-08 03:16 PM   #17 
     - So it's a, "just another confused eyewitness."  JackRiddler   Apr-06-08 04:20 PM   #18 
        - Counter evidence - the recordings only have Sirhan's eight shots.  boloboffin   Apr-06-08 04:42 PM   #19 
  - point blank range  sabbat hunter   Apr-06-08 12:44 PM   #16 
     - You don't link...  JackRiddler   Apr-06-08 05:00 PM   #20 
     - here is a link  sabbat hunter   Apr-06-08 05:24 PM   #21 
        - Powder burns  k-robjoe   Apr-06-08 05:47 PM   #22 
        - So, let me make sure I get this straight...  SDuderstadt   Apr-06-08 07:50 PM   #24 
           - Its all very confusing  k-robjoe   Apr-07-08 04:07 AM   #25 
           - I don't think your "source" is particularly believable  SDuderstadt   Apr-07-08 06:27 PM   #26 
              - "false certainty"  k-robjoe   Apr-08-08 04:49 AM   #28 
              - Kill the messenger!  JackRiddler   Apr-08-08 07:26 AM   #29 
                 - Coming from someone down on Moldea, that is a really big LOL! n/t  boloboffin   Apr-08-08 07:53 AM   #30 
                 - Zero still requires addition of $2 metro card for subway ride.  JackRiddler   Apr-08-08 07:56 AM   #31 
                    - Yeah.  boloboffin   Apr-08-08 07:59 AM   #32 
                 - You're assuming what Shanna says is true  SDuderstadt   Apr-08-08 11:05 AM   #33 
                    - No, I'm taking Noguchi's word for it.  JackRiddler   Apr-08-08 11:40 AM   #34 
                       - But since Uecker could not have known the position of Kennedy throughout the event  boloboffin   Apr-08-08 11:48 AM   #35 
                       - Uecker couldn't know, but obviously you do - thanks to Randivision (tm).  JackRiddler   Apr-08-08 11:53 AM   #36 
                          - Uecker was in front of Kennedy, looking at the gun and dealing with Sirhan.  boloboffin   Apr-08-08 01:13 PM   #38 
                          - Field of vision  k-robjoe   Apr-08-08 04:43 PM   #47 
                             - All very true about his field of vision...  JackRiddler   Jan-30-09 04:33 PM   #88 
                          - Bugliosi  k-robjoe   Apr-08-08 01:30 PM   #39 
                             - ... was an early champion of reopening the RFK case against Sirhan Sirhan  MinM   Apr-08-08 01:46 PM   #40 
                             - ...has probably changed his mind between then and now. n/t  boloboffin   Apr-08-08 01:50 PM   #41 
                                - Perhaps ...  MinM   Apr-08-08 02:56 PM   #42 
                                   - Bwa!  boloboffin   Apr-08-08 03:14 PM   #43 
                                   - You are correct...  MinM   Apr-08-08 03:47 PM   #44 
                                   - And it's irrelevant.  JackRiddler   Apr-08-08 03:47 PM   #45 
                                   - Spence, Bugliosi and 40 years later...  MinM   Jun-04-08 08:00 AM   #78 
                             - There was distance and there was the fact gun was in FRONT of RFK ....  defendandprotect   Dec-03-11 01:28 AM   #114 
                       - Show me where Shannan cites a specific source and links to it  SDuderstadt   Apr-09-08 03:36 PM   #49 
                          - Shannan has nothing to do with it. It's Noguchi, the coroner.  JackRiddler   Apr-10-08 11:42 AM   #50 
                             - You need to pay attention, Jack  SDuderstadt   Apr-10-08 12:20 PM   #51 
                                - No, you jumped into a discussion of the bullets and powder burns...  JackRiddler   Apr-10-08 12:31 PM   #52 
                                   - Jesus Fucking Christ, Jack...  SDuderstadt   Apr-10-08 01:01 PM   #53 
                                      - "so Cesar was on the floor"  k-robjoe   Apr-10-08 01:31 PM   #54 
                                      - Thane Eugene Cesar -- a name we need to keep out there for all to see ... !!!  defendandprotect   Dec-03-11 01:31 AM   #115 
                                      - This is an open board, members may respond to any post.  JackRiddler   Apr-10-08 01:55 PM   #55 
                                         - I see neither you nor K-robjoe can answer the question I posed  SDuderstadt   Apr-10-08 03:35 PM   #57 
                                            - Many people saw Cesar with his gun drawn.  JackRiddler   Apr-11-08 09:24 PM   #58 
                                            - If by "learning about the case" you mean buying what some...  SDuderstadt   Apr-11-08 09:59 PM   #59 
                                            - yawn...  JackRiddler   Apr-11-08 11:50 PM   #60 
                                            - No, Jack...  SDuderstadt   Apr-12-08 01:23 AM   #61 
                                            - general agenda.  seemslikeadream   Apr-15-08 11:37 PM   #63 
                                            - Donald Schulman, of KNXT Television  MinM   Apr-16-08 02:37 PM   #64 
                                            - Thanks! n/t  k-robjoe   Apr-16-08 05:27 PM   #65 
                                            - I'd heard that Cesar was the actual assassin. He's alive and well,  ailsagirl   Apr-22-08 02:04 PM   #74 
                                            - Evidently they don't need to eliminate him .... !! But, some say they saw at least  defendandprotect   Dec-03-11 01:36 AM   #116 
           - Who said no one saw it? There were people who saw it ---  defendandprotect   Apr-16-08 09:51 PM   #66 
           - Then name them, D&P and...  SDuderstadt   Apr-17-08 10:21 PM   #72 
           - Here, let me settle this  ResetButton   Aug-06-08 06:12 PM   #84 
              - Aww. Do you need some juice? n/t  boloboffin   Aug-06-08 06:14 PM   #85 
        - Which doesn't answer the question...  JackRiddler   Apr-06-08 06:20 PM   #23 
     - You're in denial that gun was still in FRONT of RFK while wounds are in back ...  defendandprotect   Dec-03-11 01:24 AM   #113 
  - MLK - William F. Pepper & Judge Joe Brown on NPR - 4.4.2008  seemslikeadream   Apr-05-08 11:47 AM   #7 
  - Thank you ... saved to my favs ---  defendandprotect   Apr-17-08 08:43 PM   #71 
  - Thank you for the links . . . saving them for another day!  defendandprotect   Mar-30-09 12:33 AM   #91 
  - CIA Operative/LAPD Detective Hank Hernadez v Sandy Serrano  MinM   Apr-08-08 12:59 PM   #37 
  - Scott Enyart  MinM   Apr-08-08 04:12 PM   #46 
  - The RFK 'Zapruder Film'  MinM   Apr-10-08 02:05 PM   #56 
  - Ah, yes, this is a tape that has to be heard . . . I've heard it a few times and it's  defendandprotect   Apr-16-08 09:56 PM   #67 
     - You are welcome.  MinM   Apr-17-08 12:50 PM   #68 
        - Thank you -- saved and listening to one now . . . A&E/History Channel  defendandprotect   Apr-17-08 07:55 PM   #69 
  - RFK | USAID | SUS  MinM   Apr-09-08 07:02 AM   #48 
  - "RFK" (documentary; 2008)  MinM   May-20-08 11:06 AM   #76 
  - Thank you MinM  seemslikeadream   May-20-08 09:51 PM   #77 
  - The Assassination of Robert Kennedy (1992)  MinM   Nov-29-11 08:41 PM   #106 
  - Uh, huh. They decided to release this "blockbuster news" from a CASINO?  Redstone   Aug-06-08 04:37 PM   #82 
  - Oh stop it  seemslikeadream   Aug-06-08 04:53 PM   #83 
  - Have you listened to the interview with Shane O Sullivan, author "Who Killed Bobby?"  MrMickeysMom   Jan-29-09 09:16 PM   #87 
  - 41 Years Since RFK Assassination  MinM   Mar-20-09 01:32 PM   #89 
  - The myth of the lone gunman . . . the misfit -- !!!!  defendandprotect   Mar-25-09 02:29 AM   #90 
  - k i c k  defendandprotect   Mar-30-09 12:35 AM   #92 
  - RFK Assassin Sirhan Sirhan Moved to New Prison  MinM   Nov-03-09 10:52 AM   #93 
  - Jack Ruby tried to tell the truth -- tried to get a new trial -- as he got closer to it . ..  defendandprotect   Nov-03-09 10:06 PM   #95 
  - In about 30,40 years we might have the power on the left to bring truth forward . . .I hope!!!  defendandprotect   Nov-03-09 09:57 PM   #94 
  - TRUTH TO POWER!  snooper2   Nov-04-09 03:00 PM   #96 
     - Yes --  defendandprotect   Nov-04-09 03:42 PM   #97 
  - THIS is more sleight of hand which should wake up DU'ers re 9/11 . . .as well -- !!!  defendandprotect   Nov-05-09 02:24 PM   #99 
  - The return of Zombie slad!...nt  SidDithers   Nov-05-09 02:26 PM   #100 
  - Ha!  MrMickeysMom   Nov-05-09 10:33 PM   #101 
     - Nah, I just miss the tears of laughter that she and her posts used to induce...  SidDithers   Nov-06-09 10:09 AM   #102 
        - Jesus, that was a hoot!  SDuderstadt   Nov-06-09 10:52 AM   #103 
        - Geez, Sid...  MrMickeysMom   Nov-06-09 06:57 PM   #104 
  - Sirhan Sirhan Hassan Cho.  thepeopleunited   Nov-07-09 04:14 PM   #105 
  - Zombie slad rises again...  SidDithers   Dec-02-11 12:07 PM   #107 
  - Where's this thread been? Good to see it back -- a lot of info on this thread -- !!  defendandprotect   Dec-03-11 12:23 AM   #108 
  - I remember SLAD...  jberryhill   Dec-03-11 01:15 AM   #110 

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