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Kingshakabobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #117
139. Any comments on Hysteresis and its effect on an altimeter during...
....a rapid descent?

We have you - and your dubious Youtube profile.

And then we have LINKS from independent 3rd party sources.

http://www.tpub.com/content/aviation/14030/css/14030_45...

Hysteresis Error. Hysteresis error is a lag in altitude indication due to the elastic properties of the material within the altimeter. This occurs after an aircraft has maintained a constant altitude for an extended period of time and then makes a large, rapid altitude change. After a rapid descent, altimeter readings are higher than actual. This error is negligible during climbs and descent at a slow rate or after maintaining a new altitude for a short period of time.


HYSTERESIS:

Hysteresis results from the imperfect elasticity of aneroid capsules and springs which tend to retain a given shape even though the external forces have changed. It is present during rapid altitude changes and for a short duration thereafter. Hysteresis affects pressure altimeters.

REVERSAL ERROR:

Reversal error results from induced false static pressure sensations caused by large or abrupt pitch changes which give a momentary indication in the opposite direction. It affects pressure altimeters and vertical-speed indicators.

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  -Flight 77 - What hit the Light Poles? reprehensor  Aug-29-06 10:08 AM   #0 
  - At least the question isn't "what hit the pentagon?"  greyl   Aug-29-06 10:59 AM   #1 
  - That demonstration has nothing to do with Flight 77's FDR information  mhatrw   Aug-29-06 03:15 PM   #5 
  - No kidding. The link I provided does though.  greyl   Aug-29-06 03:26 PM   #6 
  - it's a friggin cartoon, but if it makes you happy, fine.  spooked911   Aug-30-06 09:08 AM   #17 
     - Your replies concerning this model are pathetic.  greyl   Aug-30-06 10:26 AM   #24 
  - how do you know it has nothing to do with the FDR?  spooked911   Aug-30-06 09:09 AM   #18 
     - Because of its date of creation. nt  greyl   Aug-30-06 10:40 AM   #26 
  - That is a ficticious account. It is made to fit the "facts"  mirandapriestly   Aug-30-06 10:36 PM   #49 
  - Made to fit the facts? Made To Fit The Facts? MADE TO FIT THE FACTS!?  greyl   Aug-31-06 01:23 PM   #57 
     - to fit the "made up facts"  mirandapriestly   Sep-01-06 01:29 AM   #74 
     - What "made up facts"? nt  greyl   Sep-01-06 01:33 AM   #77 
     - Thanks for pointing out that re-creation. It was good.  No DUplicitous DUpe   Sep-11-06 07:17 PM   #156 
  - One wonders how  mogster   Aug-31-06 09:48 AM   #52 
  - Some light  LARED   Aug-29-06 11:51 AM   #2 
  - The altimeters were reset at 9:24:16. See Columns CG and CH in the FDR  gbwarming   Aug-29-06 01:02 PM   #3 
  - Class A airspace - 29.92 alitimeter setting  bmcatt   Aug-30-06 09:00 AM   #14 
     - "why would a hijacker *care* about following proper procedures"  Kingshakabobo   Aug-30-06 10:26 AM   #23 
        - Not for a VFR pilot  bmcatt   Aug-30-06 10:44 AM   #27 
           - Are you a pilot?  Kingshakabobo   Aug-30-06 12:16 PM   #34 
              - Yes  bmcatt   Aug-30-06 12:35 PM   #36 
                 - I just edited while you were responding......So am I....  Kingshakabobo   Aug-30-06 12:41 PM   #37 
                    - Responding to edit...  bmcatt   Aug-30-06 01:01 PM   #38 
                       - Here is some info from the 911 commission:  Kingshakabobo   Aug-30-06 01:59 PM   #39 
                          - Some thoughts  bmcatt   Aug-30-06 02:42 PM   #40 
                             - I think you are making my point.  Kingshakabobo   Aug-30-06 02:56 PM   #41 
                             - Who said anything about the go around smoking?  bmcatt   Aug-30-06 04:44 PM   #45 
                                - The VIDEO makes a lot of hay out of a simple turn.  Kingshakabobo   Aug-30-06 05:04 PM   #47 
                             - It's like 25 hrs right seat in type, right?  AZCat   Aug-30-06 09:37 PM   #48 
                             - 2) is a really, really good question.  sofa king   Aug-31-06 04:59 AM   #50 
  - So - Are the people at pilotsfor911truth liars?  sgsmith   Aug-29-06 02:23 PM   #4 
  - Where is the problem ?  medienanalyse   Aug-29-06 03:35 PM   #7 
  - What utter bunk.....  Kingshakabobo   Sep-01-06 11:09 AM   #103 
  - Well, they're an offshoot of the loose change club so...  Jazz2006   Aug-29-06 10:10 PM   #10 
     - are you saying the animation released by the NTSB is wrong?  spooked911   Aug-30-06 09:11 AM   #19 
        - Are you admitting that the FDR from Flight 77 is real? nt  greyl   Aug-30-06 10:52 AM   #30 
  - Interview with JohnDoeX  reprehensor   Aug-29-06 08:21 PM   #8 
  - No discontinuities at 18,000 ft suggests that the FDR is showing Press Alt  gbwarming   Aug-29-06 11:18 PM   #11 
  - Based on the physical evidence, it did hit them.  greyl   Aug-30-06 08:25 AM   #13 
     - that is a cartoon and it is obviously disinfo  spooked911   Aug-30-06 09:05 AM   #15 
        - So, you want to use the FDR from a flight you say didn't exist  greyl   Aug-30-06 10:44 AM   #28 
  - Why is everyone making a big deal out of the fact........  Kingshakabobo   Aug-29-06 09:56 PM   #9 
  - very interesting thread.  QuettaKid   Aug-30-06 06:38 AM   #12 
     - the fancy manouvering  medienanalyse   Aug-30-06 10:17 AM   #20 
     - Um, he crossed his original flight-path.  Kingshakabobo   Aug-30-06 10:23 AM   #22 
     - But he wasn't gonna land  mogster   Aug-31-06 09:58 AM   #53 
        - Why not take a nose dive?  Kingshakabobo   Aug-31-06 02:45 PM   #58 
           - You are seeing this in retrospect  mogster   Aug-31-06 04:34 PM   #63 
              - I'm seeing this as a private pilot who has flown for 20 years.  Kingshakabobo   Aug-31-06 06:33 PM   #66 
              - "Is it possible " -"not at all likely " - "these guys WERE "  medienanalyse   Sep-01-06 12:56 AM   #70 
              - I'll only speak to what I have some insight. The flight path...  Kingshakabobo   Sep-01-06 10:05 AM   #100 
                 - "100% wrong. Not true. 100% the opposite. "  medienanalyse   Sep-01-06 12:01 PM   #106 
                    - He was an instrument/commercial rated licensed pilot........  Kingshakabobo   Sep-01-06 12:19 PM   #108 
              - You are quick to dismiss other opinions as bullshit  mogster   Sep-01-06 01:15 AM   #71 
                 - How long should one wait before calling bullshit?  greyl   Sep-01-06 01:31 AM   #76 
                    - True, but they were thinking beings  mogster   Sep-01-06 01:42 AM   #78 
                    - "Some of the passengers had spoken on mobile phones "? NO  medienanalyse   Sep-01-06 01:55 AM   #81 
                    - No, you're incorrect. Renee May also called her mother.  greyl   Sep-01-06 02:14 AM   #83 
                    - Six individuals  mogster   Sep-01-06 03:24 AM   #86 
                       - Do you think air travel employees were trained to fight back  greyl   Sep-01-06 03:38 AM   #88 
                    - I remember seeing Ted Olson being interviewed  DoYouEverWonder   Sep-01-06 05:47 AM   #93 
                       - I counted 13 different versions in 2003  medienanalyse   Sep-01-06 07:20 AM   #98 
                    - Even if they knew about the other planes,  greyl   Sep-01-06 02:07 AM   #82 
                       - No  mogster   Sep-01-06 02:57 AM   #84 
                          - But you weren't on the plane.  greyl   Sep-01-06 03:12 AM   #85 
                             - Well, we have the phone calls  mogster   Sep-01-06 03:32 AM   #87 
                                - The strength of my argument doesn't depend on bombs at all.  greyl   Sep-01-06 03:45 AM   #89 
                                   - No  mogster   Sep-01-06 04:25 AM   #90 
                                      - I said forget the bombs, and justify  greyl   Sep-01-06 04:31 AM   #91 
                                         - It's the official explanation?  mogster   Sep-01-06 05:10 AM   #92 
                    - "the passengers may have been told "  medienanalyse   Sep-01-06 01:45 AM   #79 
                       - No, it's a reasoned, speculative hypothesis. nt  greyl   Sep-01-06 01:52 AM   #80 
              - Hindsight is what? ;) nt  greyl   Sep-01-06 12:18 AM   #68 
              - You are assuming they didint try a nose dive first  vincent_vega_lives   Sep-01-06 06:56 AM   #96 
     - rumsfeld time line scary -  mirandapriestly   Sep-01-06 01:23 AM   #72 
     - There were trained ER personnel to help victims and Rummy is  treestar   Sep-09-06 10:58 AM   #125 
     - That's the thing. It wasn't at all fancy.  Kingshakabobo   Aug-30-06 10:19 AM   #21 
        - Yes. In addition,  greyl   Aug-30-06 10:51 AM   #29 
        - I'm not sure what you question is re: ground effect.  Kingshakabobo   Aug-30-06 03:21 PM   #42 
           - Thanks, I see.  greyl   Aug-30-06 03:43 PM   #43 
              - I suppose there would be a ground effect.  Kingshakabobo   Aug-30-06 04:20 PM   #44 
        - In the words of Paul Wolfowitz  DoYouEverWonder   Sep-09-06 11:01 AM   #126 
        - If one is not a pilot, it is hard to tell who to believe  treestar   Sep-09-06 11:04 AM   #128 
  - can you say smoking gun?  spooked911   Aug-30-06 09:06 AM   #16 
  - So, what hit the polls? A missile? nt  Kingshakabobo   Aug-30-06 10:29 AM   #25 
  - ONCE AGAIN  boolean   Aug-30-06 10:58 AM   #31 
  - What's wrong with just asking the questions?  bmcatt   Aug-30-06 11:18 AM   #32 
  - Strawman. There's nothing wrong with asking questions.  greyl   Aug-30-06 11:53 AM   #33 
  - You're right, and it's no strawman.eom  mirandapriestly   Sep-01-06 01:26 AM   #73 
  - Have to agree. Those who say that would make terrible police  treestar   Sep-09-06 11:01 AM   #127 
  - Wouldn't hitting the lightpoles  DoYouEverWonder   Aug-31-06 06:30 AM   #51 
  - Combustion takes time to start  sgsmith   Aug-31-06 10:00 AM   #54 
     - Breaking of wings doesn't?  DoYouEverWonder   Aug-31-06 01:09 PM   #55 
        - The light poles are designed to break away, not the wings! nt  greyl   Aug-31-06 01:19 PM   #56 
           - Light poles designed to break away?  DoYouEverWonder   Aug-31-06 03:01 PM   #59 
              - Yes, designed to break away.  greyl   Aug-31-06 03:19 PM   #60 
                 - So is there any proof  DoYouEverWonder   Aug-31-06 03:25 PM   #61 
                    - Yes, in answer to your question:  greyl   Aug-31-06 04:14 PM   #62 
                       - Do you ever get the feeling you are talking to a brick wall? nt  Kingshakabobo   Aug-31-06 06:06 PM   #64 
                       - Hehe. I think I'd rather call it  greyl   Sep-01-06 12:20 AM   #69 
                       - I don't have time for your wild goose chases  DoYouEverWonder   Aug-31-06 06:27 PM   #65 
                          - Oh c'mon. I wouldn't call your original question a wild goose chase.  greyl   Sep-01-06 12:17 AM   #67 
  - to make it look as though a large plane came in very low,  rman   Sep-09-06 05:23 AM   #122 
  - Do you have any proof of how the light poles were brought down?  Nozebro   Sep-09-06 10:34 AM   #123 
  - What hit the Light Poles? - Was the landing gear down?  Make7   Aug-30-06 12:30 PM   #35 
  - Just a question  boloboffin   Aug-30-06 05:04 PM   #46 
  - Knocked down by jet engine blow back maybe??  Sinti   Sep-01-06 01:29 AM   #75 
  - I think we've talked about that possibility before...  AZCat   Sep-01-06 06:19 AM   #95 
  - Nope  vincent_vega_lives   Sep-01-06 07:09 AM   #97 
  - I'm confused. What would you have heard?  Kingshakabobo   Sep-01-06 10:32 AM   #101 
     - It would have been exceedingly out of the ordinary  Sinti   Sep-01-06 11:27 AM   #104 
        - Wow. Your neighborhood goes in to a tizzy over a plane.....  Kingshakabobo   Sep-01-06 11:40 AM   #105 
        - Perhaps I'm mistaken, did he totally nosedive in the last 10 miles or so?  Sinti   Sep-01-06 12:17 PM   #107 
           - I'm not sure what you are saying but the graph seems to be a bit...  Kingshakabobo   Sep-01-06 12:40 PM   #109 
              - I see. There's a corollary map of the "final approach" from NTSB  Sinti   Sep-01-06 01:07 PM   #110 
              - Was there a picture embedded? All I got was a "red X" nt  Kingshakabobo   Sep-01-06 02:08 PM   #111 
                 - Let me try again see if uploadfile.info works better than hotlinking  Sinti   Sep-01-06 03:21 PM   #112 
              - RE: map scale  Make7   Sep-02-06 05:34 PM   #115 
        - There has only been one officially released flight path.  Make7   Sep-02-06 06:38 PM   #116 
           - Was 495 a typo? Yep, or maybe just a brain fart. I meant 395 and Rt. 7  Sinti   Sep-08-06 11:43 PM   #118 
  - JohnDoeX in defense of analysis and anonymity  reprehensor   Sep-01-06 05:54 AM   #94 
  - Ask him how much atlimeter lag we should see 5400ft/min descent rate.  gbwarming   Sep-01-06 08:33 AM   #99 
     - Do we even know, for a fact, that this isn't a radar altimeter? nt  Kingshakabobo   Sep-01-06 10:40 AM   #102 
        - The FDR column is labeled as "pressure alt"  sgsmith   Sep-01-06 05:37 PM   #113 
           - Thanks. I understand there are readings for the pressure alt.  Kingshakabobo   Sep-02-06 06:51 AM   #114 
              - Kingshakabobo  johndoeX   Sep-08-06 11:21 PM   #117 
                 - Welcome to DU!  greyl   Sep-08-06 11:51 PM   #119 
                 - 26 yrs old?  johndoeX   Sep-09-06 04:50 AM   #120 
                    - or perhaps you can debate the facts?  johndoeX   Sep-09-06 04:53 AM   #121 
                    - Perhaps I can. State one. nt  greyl   Sep-10-06 03:48 AM   #136 
                       - Funny stuff goin on at YouTube........  Kingshakabobo   Sep-10-06 05:46 PM   #140 
                          - And....Poof! It's gone!  Kingshakabobo   Sep-10-06 07:06 PM   #141 
                    - CFII? Do you know what altimeter lag is on the 757 >5000ft/min nt  gbwarming   Sep-09-06 11:27 AM   #129 
                    - according to the Youtube profile. nt  greyl   Sep-09-06 02:04 PM   #130 
                       - LOL. Another internet phony. 26 years old with 20 years experience. nt  Kingshakabobo   Sep-10-06 01:28 AM   #131 
                          - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-10-06 03:01 AM   #134 
                 - Any comments on Hysteresis and its effect on an altimeter during...  Kingshakabobo   Sep-10-06 11:41 AM   #139 
  - it was the ay-rab goat herder  leftofthedial   Sep-09-06 10:39 AM   #124 
  - "ay-rab goat herder"?  greyl   Sep-10-06 01:56 AM   #132 
     - someone took over those planes  leftofthedial   Sep-10-06 02:12 AM   #133 
        - "Don't you listen to the radio?"  greyl   Sep-10-06 03:46 AM   #135 
           - I'm glad to be of help  leftofthedial   Sep-10-06 07:36 AM   #137 
  - There's no proof that ANYTHING "hit" the light poles.  Nozebro   Sep-10-06 10:54 AM   #138 
  - Cabbie who was hit by a light pole supposedly  mirandapriestly   Sep-11-06 01:45 AM   #142 
  - What is an "LC" guy? Is it too much to just spell it out? EOM  Nozebro   Sep-11-06 10:13 AM   #144 
  - Bush Senior's plane clipped a pole & tore off a wing  mirandapriestly   Sep-11-06 01:53 AM   #143 
  - Of course - but disruptors will say "different kind of plane, ma'am". NT  Nozebro   Sep-11-06 10:16 AM   #145 
  - Sure, don't let the factinistas get in your way or slow you down....  Kingshakabobo   Sep-11-06 10:40 AM   #146 
     - You neglected to mention about the poles. Remember the POLES?  Nozebro   Sep-11-06 01:11 PM   #147 
        - I try to speak about only what I know............  Kingshakabobo   Sep-11-06 01:42 PM   #148 
        - Now I understand why you didn't respond to the points I made.  Nozebro   Sep-11-06 05:25 PM   #153 
           - "where in my post is there any mention of a Gulfstream?"  Kingshakabobo   Sep-11-06 06:27 PM   #154 
              - Your post is little more than an excuse for not being able to refute mine.  Nozebro   Sep-11-06 07:14 PM   #155 
                 - I have no idea and neither do you!  Kingshakabobo   Sep-11-06 07:24 PM   #157 
                    - I'll stick with the proof/expert opinion. N/T  Nozebro   Sep-11-06 09:54 PM   #158 
                       - Which would be........what?  Kingshakabobo   Sep-11-06 10:01 PM   #159 
        - Good point, the poles were bigger too, 200 feet tall  gbwarming   Sep-11-06 02:30 PM   #149 
           - I'm not sure what your point is???  Kingshakabobo   Sep-11-06 02:49 PM   #150 
              - I'd expect more damage from larger poles/towers too  gbwarming   Sep-11-06 03:22 PM   #151 
                 - That's what I thought....  Kingshakabobo   Sep-11-06 03:25 PM   #152 
                    - Vertical Speed/Alternate Analysis/Fallacy of Lag issues  johndoeX   Sep-20-06 06:44 PM   #160 
  - wings of a large plane might not have torn off,  rman   Nov-29-06 04:45 AM   #162 
  - And this is relevant because? (n/t)  LARED   Nov-29-06 04:59 AM   #163 
  - kick nt  greyl   Nov-29-06 01:42 AM   #161 
 

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