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Reply #3: I think you're misinterpreting the record-eagle story [View All]

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Jazz2006 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
3. I think you're misinterpreting the record-eagle story
Edited on Fri Aug-25-06 01:14 AM by Jazz2006
but it's very poorly written and easy to misunderstand as it vaguely lumps the impacts, the collapses of both towers and the aftermath all together in the opening parts of the story, and throughout the story, it never is clear on who is where when.

Still, it doesn't say that there was any explosion inside of WTC7, and I have never seen any evidence at all that there were any explosions inside of WTC7.

Moreover, there is no indication in that story of where Mr. Jennings was at the time of the "initial blast" but it says that "after" the initial blast, he reported to the 23rd floor of WTC7, the inference being that he was somewhere other than WTC7 at the time of the "initial blast". Presumably, then, the "initial blast" was either a plane hitting WTC2 or a plane hitting WTC1 (its impossible to tell which from the few stories about him that Ive been able to find but I seem to recall reading something about this in one of the 9/11 related books and that he was either in one of the towers or outside initially - I can't remember exactly, though, and it could have been someone else and not him).

Nonetheless, it seems most likely that the "explosion" that damaged the lobby (and the 3rd floor) of WTC7 was probably the collapse of the south tower. This is consistent with the only other news stories about him that I've found and also with the NIST report:


Pandemonium, horror outside Trade Center as people jump, towers
Source: AP - AP Wire Service
Sep 11, 2001 13:31
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By TOM HAYS
Associated Press Writer

NEW YORK (AP) _ Shortly after the first explosion, an elevator opened at One World Trade Center. A man stood inside, engulfed in flames. It was just one of the horrific sights at the scene of the terrorist attack on New York's tallest buildings.

Kenny Johannemann, a janitor, said he and a second person grabbed the man, put the fire out, and dragged him outside. Then Johannemann heard a second explosion _ and saw people jumping from the upper stories of the Twin Towers. ``It was horrendous; I can't describe it,'' Johannemann said as he
stood, shellshocked, outside the building afterward.

Clemant Lewin, a banker who works across street, said that after the initial explosion, he looked out the window and also saw people jumping from the building from as high as the 80th floor, including a man and a woman holding hands as they fell. ``I'm traumatized for life,'' Lewin said. ``Someone needs to take responsibility for this. This was somebody's father, this was somebody's sister, somebody's mother. We should have seen this coming. I'm disgusted.''

As most people fled the area, others were drawn to it, desperate for information about friends and relatives who worked there. ``I don't know what to do,'' a weeping Alan Rivera said as he stood behind barricades, hoping for word about his niece, who worked in the Trade Center. ``I can't get through to her on the phone. ... No one can tell me anything.''

Seen from West Broadway through billowing brown and black smoke, Tower 2 tilted across the street. Ash, 2 inches deep, lined the streets. Scores of police and firefighters emerged from the sealed-off area, gasping for air.

(Note: that seems to indicate that it was after the south tower fell, since before that time, there weren't inches of dust covering the streets or firefighters 'emerging' and gasping for air.)


After the initial blast, Housing Authority worker Barry Jennings, 46, reported to a command center on the 23rd floor of 7 World Trade Center. He was with Michael Hess, the city's corporation counsel.

They were the only ones there. They felt and heard another explosion, probably the collapse of one building. He broke a window and screamed for help. Then they went down a stairwell.

"I told Hess, `We've got to try to get out of here.'" They got to the lobby, or what was left of it. "I thought I was dead. The whole building shook. ... I looked around, the lobby was gone. It looked like hell. It was like a bad movie."

Though covered in soot, Jennings was not physically injured. He said Hess escaped safely as well.

AP-ES-09-11-01 1317EDT

http://www.wpi.edu/News/TechNews/wtc.shtml

Terrorist attack collapses World Trade towers, shakes the nation
By Larry McShane, Associated Press, 09/11/01

Eyewitness Kenny Johanneman was inside One World Trade Center when the nightmare began. He helped rescue one burning man from an elevator before running outside, where he saw people plunging from the upper floors. "It was horrendous," he said. "I can't describe it."

The attack, eight years after a car bomb in the towers' basement parking garage, focused on the top of the buildings. Clyde Ebanks, an insurance company vice president, was sitting in a meeting on the 103rd floor of the south tower when his boss said, "Look at that." He turned to see a plane slam into the other tower shortly before 9 a.m.

A few minutes later, the second plane slammed into his tower.

Ebanks managed to walk down to safety, emerging from the building with tears running down his face and ash in his hair. "I worry about some of my co-workers," he said.

Outside St. Vincent's Medical Center, paramedics stood in the street soliciting blood donations. Nearby, on the Brooklyn Bridge, thousands of people stood transfixed, staring in disbelief at the endless smoke.

Three inches of thick gray ash covered the streets around the destroyed buildings. City Housing Authority worker Barry Jennings, 46, was in a city command center on the 23rd floor of a neighboring Trade Center building during the second explosion.

He and city Corporation Counsel Michael Hess made it downstairs, where the lobby was just gone. "I thought I was dead," Jennings said. "It looked like hell."

http://www.boston.com/news/daily/11/world_trade_center....

Its tough to tell which explosion was which, but given that there were two to three inches of dust on the streets, that would seem to indicate that the south tower had fallen, dont you think?

And, assuming youve read the NIST report on WTC7, you already know that damage to the building 7 was reported on the lower lobby floors by the collapse of the first tower, although it was the collapse of the second tower that did the serious damage later, right?

Edit to fix bolding.
Edit again to fix stupid mistake.
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  -WTC7 Lobby "Gone" mirandapriestly  Aug-24-06 10:02 PM   #0 
  - Nice, this is new info to me :)  Sinti   Aug-24-06 10:57 PM   #1 
  - Oh, thanks , yes, it's an AP story, and there are many  mirandapriestly   Aug-25-06 01:40 AM   #4 
     - Tsk tsk.  Jazz2006   Aug-25-06 04:53 AM   #8 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Aug-25-06 05:50 PM   #9 
        - "said" posts are only seen  Hope2006   Aug-25-06 08:00 PM   #11 
           - More food for thought.  Make7   Aug-25-06 09:47 PM   #13 
           - Not sure what you are out to prove  Hope2006   Aug-25-06 10:03 PM   #16 
              - I was simply saying those posts were worth considering.  Make7   Aug-25-06 10:33 PM   #20 
                 - You aren't getting it  Hope2006   Aug-25-06 10:39 PM   #23 
                    - What am I not getting? I'm curious. ( n/t )  Make7   Aug-25-06 10:51 PM   #26 
                       - I will PM you.  Hope2006   Aug-25-06 10:57 PM   #28 
           - I agreed to mods that I would ignore  mirandapriestly   Aug-25-06 10:01 PM   #15 
           - Of course. n/t  Hope2006   Aug-25-06 10:06 PM   #17 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Aug-26-06 08:35 AM   #33 
              - I so enjoy conversing with you  Hope2006   Aug-26-06 03:05 PM   #38 
                 - Always a pleasure conversing with you, too.  Jazz2006   Aug-26-06 04:45 PM   #39 
                 - Thank you very much!  Hope2006   Aug-26-06 05:00 PM   #40 
                    - You are most welcome.  Jazz2006   Aug-26-06 11:21 PM   #50 
                 - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Aug-26-06 09:49 PM   #45 
  - This could have been WTC2 coming down.  Carefulplease   Aug-25-06 12:01 AM   #2 
  - wtc7 was evacuated at 9AM  mirandapriestly   Aug-25-06 01:52 AM   #5 
     - Really? According to whom?  Jazz2006   Aug-25-06 04:40 AM   #7 
  - I think you're misinterpreting the record-eagle story  Jazz2006   Aug-25-06 01:02 AM   #3 
  - Barry Jennings breaks bullet-and bomb-proof window?  Ferry Fey   Aug-26-06 08:24 AM   #32 
     - Well, it's an AP story and there are many versions of it on the web  Jazz2006   Aug-26-06 09:06 AM   #34 
     - It doesn't say where he was when he broke the window. eom  mirandapriestly   Aug-27-06 03:14 AM   #52 
     - Well, to be fair to Ferry Fey, and I think you should be,  Jazz2006   Aug-27-06 06:53 AM   #60 
        - I didn't feel that Miranda was being critical of me or unfair.  Ferry Fey   Aug-27-06 06:15 PM   #70 
           - Like I said  Jazz2006   Aug-28-06 02:50 AM   #74 
           - Sorry if i was curt  mirandapriestly   Aug-28-06 03:22 AM   #76 
     - Why would he break a window?  DoYouEverWonder   Aug-27-06 06:18 AM   #58 
        - No idea. People do strange things in strange circumstances, I guess.  Jazz2006   Aug-27-06 06:37 AM   #59 
           - But isn't that one of the main things  DoYouEverWonder   Aug-27-06 08:30 AM   #62 
              - One would think so.  Jazz2006   Aug-28-06 03:55 AM   #80 
  - Have you ruled out that some of those accounts  greyl   Aug-25-06 01:56 AM   #6 
  - Since flight 175 hit the south tower at an angle, it is unreasonable  petgoat   Aug-26-06 01:30 PM   #37 
  - Have you ever played pool?  greyl   Aug-26-06 09:40 PM   #42 
     - Of course I've played pool.  petgoat   Aug-27-06 12:47 PM   #63 
        - This was a fine post Petgoat...  Carefulplease   Aug-28-06 12:56 AM   #73 
        - I'm only maintaining a line of inquiry, not a conclusion.  greyl   Aug-28-06 10:15 AM   #85 
  - Interesting exhibit  TomClash   Aug-26-06 09:33 PM   #41 
     - Why not?  greyl   Aug-26-06 09:52 PM   #46 
     - Well to start with  TomClash   Aug-27-06 07:14 AM   #61 
        - Right,. that "hole" was on the bottom of the building  mirandapriestly   Aug-28-06 03:26 AM   #77 
        - The exhibit is of plane debris that was later located.  greyl   Aug-28-06 10:08 AM   #84 
     - yes, good point.eom  mirandapriestly   Aug-27-06 03:19 AM   #53 
  - We discussed this graphic  canetoad   Aug-25-06 06:02 PM   #10 
  - Now isn't that interesting  mirandapriestly   Aug-25-06 09:45 PM   #12 
     - It's got to be a result of not only falling debris from 1 and 2  Hope2006   Aug-25-06 10:34 PM   #21 
        - Time of collapse?  canetoad   Aug-25-06 10:42 PM   #24 
           - Good question  Hope2006   Aug-25-06 10:50 PM   #25 
           - Zactly!  canetoad   Aug-25-06 10:56 PM   #27 
              - Not that I am aware of  Hope2006   Aug-25-06 11:07 PM   #29 
           - sure isn't much on it  mirandapriestly   Aug-26-06 04:01 AM   #31 
  - WTC 7 Evacuated - what were they doing on 7th and 8th floors  mirandapriestly   Aug-25-06 09:56 PM   #14 
  - Thanks for this follow up miranda. This is very interesting in that  John Q. Citizen   Aug-25-06 10:14 PM   #18 
  - Yes, and if they had the ability to evacuate 7  mirandapriestly   Aug-25-06 10:22 PM   #19 
  - Do you think it's impossible for debris from the South Tower impact  greyl   Aug-26-06 01:26 AM   #30 
     - Sure greyl. Anything is possible.  John Q. Citizen   Aug-26-06 09:06 AM   #35 
        - Your reply is no substitute for substance. nt  greyl   Aug-26-06 09:42 PM   #43 
  - I'd like to add that the explosions heard/felt on the 23rd floor could  mirandapriestly   Aug-25-06 10:35 PM   #22 
  - Astonishing.  dailykoff   Aug-26-06 10:59 AM   #36 
  - I'm astonished at the noise RiceKrispies make.  greyl   Aug-26-06 09:45 PM   #44 
     - Rice Krispies(R) and the Controled Demolition of WTC7  Carefulplease   Aug-26-06 10:09 PM   #47 
     - Let's not get ahead of ourselves. We can't rule out the  greyl   Aug-26-06 10:19 PM   #48 
        - I heard  salvorhardin   Aug-26-06 10:35 PM   #49 
           - Don't forget the Keebler Elves. They are alive and well with CTers  Jazz2006   Aug-28-06 03:10 AM   #75 
     - Your reply is no substitute for substance. nt  mirandapriestly   Aug-27-06 03:24 AM   #54 
        - The poignant humor is substantial. I don't get your point. nt  greyl   Aug-27-06 03:42 AM   #55 
  - Here are some visuals  mirandapriestly   Aug-27-06 03:05 AM   #51 
  - I don't see evidence of smoke coming from WTC7 in that photo.  greyl   Aug-27-06 04:54 AM   #56 
  - Could also be steam  DoYouEverWonder   Aug-27-06 06:07 AM   #57 
     - I agree the big photo is not very convincing  mirandapriestly   Aug-27-06 01:28 PM   #65 
        - The pic looks fine  DoYouEverWonder   Aug-27-06 03:06 PM   #66 
           - In September, though?  AZCat   Aug-27-06 03:21 PM   #67 
           - From what I remember  DoYouEverWonder   Aug-27-06 03:33 PM   #68 
              - Perhaps I wasn't clear.  AZCat   Aug-27-06 03:43 PM   #69 
           - heh. One time in Manhattan, I was walking down Upper Broadway  mirandapriestly   Aug-28-06 03:35 AM   #78 
              - Flames?  AZCat   Aug-28-06 07:56 PM   #86 
  - How did the steel Calder sculpture in front of wtc7  mirandapriestly   Aug-27-06 01:27 PM   #64 
  - Maybe it was crushed and did not melt.  Carefulplease   Aug-27-06 06:28 PM   #71 
  - yeah, right wtc7 fell over on top of the sculpture  mirandapriestly   Aug-28-06 03:48 AM   #79 
     - The fact that it was not recovered in its entirety...  Carefulplease   Aug-29-06 05:41 PM   #87 
  - Oh, now I'm sad  salvorhardin   Aug-27-06 06:36 PM   #72 
  - Kick n/t  Hope2006   Aug-28-06 05:48 AM   #81 
  - You noticed the distractions too?  canetoad   Aug-28-06 06:00 AM   #82 
     - that would be a "yes" n/t  Hope2006   Aug-28-06 06:02 AM   #83 
  - Here is Hess on a TV interview  mirandapriestly   Sep-25-06 09:46 PM   #88 
 

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