DoYouEverWonder
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Mon Aug-28-06 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #113 |
| 116. For WTC2, NIST claims they could not get the plans from the PA |
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Edited on Mon Aug-28-06 07:56 AM by DoYouEverWonder
for any of the floors in the impact zone except for the 78th floor. They based all of their modeling on that one floor. Supposedly they used anecdotal evidence to adjust for some of the differences between floors, but it appears they missed some major differences. Surprisingly, the man who was one of the lead investigators complained that he could not get access to a lot of the documents, building plans, pictures and videos that he would have liked to have seen. Makes it difficult to do much of an investigation when you've got one arm tied behind your back. Testimony of Dr. Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl Professor - Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering University of California, Berkeley March 6, 2002 Hearing on “Learning from 9/11: Understanding the Collapse of the World Trade Center” The main impediments to my work were and still are: 1. Not having a copy of the engineering drawings and design and construction documents. 2. Not having copies of the photographs and videotapes that various agencies might have taken during and immediately after the collapse. http://www.house.gov/science/full02/mar06/astaneh.htm
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| -WTC during construction |
DoYouEverWonder |
Aug-18-06 05:52 PM |
#0 |
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Top view during destruction |
Sinti |
Aug-18-06 06:16 PM |
#1 |
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Just one correction... |
Carefulplease |
Aug-18-06 11:50 PM |
#2 |
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My mistake - It was the cranes not the building itself |
DoYouEverWonder |
Aug-20-06 05:02 PM |
#7 |
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And yet |
dailykoff |
Aug-20-06 11:54 AM |
#3 |
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No ... we hold firm to the idea |
hack89 |
Aug-20-06 02:32 PM |
#4 |
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It would have taken 18+ well-aimed planes |
dailykoff |
Aug-22-06 12:14 AM |
#9 |
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Why do you continue to misrepresent safety factors? |
AZCat |
Aug-22-06 12:38 AM |
#10 |
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Stick to your plumbing |
dailykoff |
Aug-22-06 12:41 AM |
#11 |
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Luckily... |
AZCat |
Aug-22-06 12:46 AM |
#12 |
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Which colums? |
DoYouEverWonder |
Aug-22-06 07:22 AM |
#13 |
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Both. |
dailykoff |
Aug-22-06 11:51 AM |
#14 |
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What calculation do you use? n/t |
Carefulplease |
Aug-22-06 01:34 PM |
#15 |
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2 core and 10 perimeter columns per plane. (n/t) |
dailykoff |
Aug-22-06 05:56 PM |
#16 |
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Your model is lacking. |
AZCat |
Aug-22-06 06:38 PM |
#17 |
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Please feel free to present |
DoYouEverWonder |
Aug-22-06 06:42 PM |
#18 |
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Someone else's data? |
AZCat |
Aug-22-06 06:45 PM |
#19 |
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What do your experts say |
DoYouEverWonder |
Aug-22-06 07:04 PM |
#20 |
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I think we have a confusing provenance here. |
AZCat |
Aug-22-06 07:10 PM |
#21 |
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I was referring to dailykoff |
DoYouEverWonder |
Aug-22-06 07:22 PM |
#22 |
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Ah - clarity ensues. |
AZCat |
Aug-22-06 08:00 PM |
#24 |
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No. |
dailykoff |
Aug-22-06 08:22 PM |
#26 |
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Whoops - you're right. |
AZCat |
Aug-22-06 08:27 PM |
#27 |
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Thanks. |
dailykoff |
Aug-22-06 09:53 PM |
#29 |
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You mean other than your fallacious assumption of linearity? |
AZCat |
Aug-23-06 01:43 AM |
#31 |
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I mean something specific. (n/t) |
dailykoff |
Aug-23-06 01:47 AM |
#32 |
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That IS something specific. n/t |
AZCat |
Aug-23-06 01:53 AM |
#33 |
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Well, your objection is quite specific and to the point... |
Carefulplease |
Aug-23-06 01:59 AM |
#35 |
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I thought it was... |
AZCat |
Aug-23-06 09:13 PM |
#59 |
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I don't care what you assume |
DoYouEverWonder |
Aug-23-06 05:55 PM |
#48 |
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The trouble is unstated assumptions... |
Carefulplease |
Aug-23-06 08:02 PM |
#51 |
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I was just using the picture for a reference point |
DoYouEverWonder |
Aug-24-06 07:00 PM |
#65 |
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Lacking what? |
dailykoff |
Aug-22-06 08:20 PM |
#25 |
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For a start, it's lacking any basis for the numbers you are using. |
Make7 |
Aug-23-06 03:19 AM |
#42 |
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The relevant figures are columns per floor |
dailykoff |
Aug-23-06 06:25 AM |
#43 |
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Why don't you just provide your source and method for your numbers? |
Make7 |
Aug-23-06 08:21 AM |
#44 |
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So where's your link? |
dailykoff |
Aug-23-06 12:11 PM |
#45 |
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You haven't downloaded the FEMA WTC Building Performance Study? |
Make7 |
Aug-23-06 05:42 PM |
#47 |
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I can always count on you |
dailykoff |
Aug-23-06 08:29 PM |
#52 |
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That does not explain how you arrived at your numbers. |
Make7 |
Aug-23-06 09:31 PM |
#60 |
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Use the highest FEMA figures and you get 5-6 planes. |
dailykoff |
Aug-26-06 10:51 AM |
#78 |
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That doesn't explain how you arrived at 18 to 20 planes before. |
Make7 |
Aug-26-06 01:17 PM |
#79 |
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I gave you the figures. If you can't do the calculation |
dailykoff |
Aug-26-06 01:29 PM |
#80 |
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It is a simple request. Please show the reasoning behind your calculations |
Make7 |
Aug-26-06 02:34 PM |
#81 |
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It's a simple calculation |
dailykoff |
Aug-26-06 02:40 PM |
#82 |
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And I'm asking you to show you how you did that simple calculation. |
Make7 |
Aug-26-06 02:57 PM |
#83 |
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With a calculator. |
dailykoff |
Aug-26-06 03:07 PM |
#84 |
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Hey! I've got one of those too! |
Make7 |
Aug-26-06 03:44 PM |
#86 |
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I am so grateful for the cooperative, non-confrontational posts |
Hope2006 |
Aug-26-06 03:31 PM |
#85 |
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. |
Make7 |
Aug-26-06 03:54 PM |
#87 |
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ROFLOL! |
Hope2006 |
Aug-26-06 03:58 PM |
#88 |
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.. |
Make7 |
Aug-26-06 04:07 PM |
#89 |
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Two dots |
Hope2006 |
Aug-26-06 04:11 PM |
#90 |
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... |
Make7 |
Aug-26-06 04:20 PM |
#91 |
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Your post is ridiculous writ large. |
greyl |
Aug-26-06 10:57 PM |
#96 |
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I appreciate you pointing this out to me |
Hope2006 |
Aug-26-06 11:00 PM |
#97 |
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I doubt that. |
greyl |
Aug-26-06 11:09 PM |
#98 |
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I know you wouldn't be calling me a liar |
Hope2006 |
Aug-26-06 11:12 PM |
#99 |
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Have you heard of Descartes' Radical Doubt ? nt |
greyl |
Aug-26-06 11:31 PM |
#100 |
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I don't think it's columns per floor |
sgsmith |
Aug-23-06 01:29 PM |
#46 |
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Sure but the breaks weren't discontinuous. (n/t) |
dailykoff |
Aug-23-06 08:29 PM |
#53 |
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They were indeed continuous. What is your point? |
Carefulplease |
Aug-23-06 09:01 PM |
#55 |
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dailykoff seems to have trouble... |
AZCat |
Aug-23-06 09:07 PM |
#56 |
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they built the top of the building first???? |
RedSock |
Aug-20-06 02:45 PM |
#5 |
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The cranes were jacked up |
hack89 |
Aug-20-06 05:01 PM |
#6 |
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Yes, my mistake |
DoYouEverWonder |
Aug-20-06 05:03 PM |
#8 |
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Yes, but so does |
John Q. Citizen |
Aug-22-06 07:46 PM |
#23 |
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Sorry, English is my second language... |
Carefulplease |
Aug-22-06 08:50 PM |
#28 |
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WTC during plane impact: |
greyl |
Aug-22-06 11:47 PM |
#30 |
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More crap science to wow the sheeple. |
dailykoff |
Aug-23-06 01:56 AM |
#34 |
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Hysteresis can still occur. |
AZCat |
Aug-23-06 02:00 AM |
#36 |
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As I was saying. . . . |
dailykoff |
Aug-23-06 02:04 AM |
#37 |
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You must have me confused with the guy over there... |
AZCat |
Aug-23-06 02:06 AM |
#38 |
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Do you see any errors? I can only presume you don't. |
greyl |
Aug-23-06 02:15 AM |
#39 |
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His conclusions do not follow from his premises, |
dailykoff |
Aug-23-06 02:25 AM |
#40 |
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Your reply is divorced from reality. |
greyl |
Aug-23-06 02:30 AM |
#41 |
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18 planes is one hell of an image though |
Jim4Wes |
Aug-23-06 06:26 PM |
#49 |
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But of course you know what the correct figures are .. |
hack89 |
Aug-23-06 07:39 PM |
#50 |
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Does anyone? |
dailykoff |
Aug-23-06 08:30 PM |
#54 |
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But you must know! |
hack89 |
Aug-24-06 05:17 PM |
#64 |
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Do any of these calculations take into account |
DoYouEverWonder |
Aug-23-06 09:07 PM |
#57 |
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Interesting thought. |
AZCat |
Aug-23-06 09:11 PM |
#58 |
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We're not talking just furniture |
DoYouEverWonder |
Aug-23-06 09:31 PM |
#61 |
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I don't know. |
AZCat |
Aug-23-06 09:38 PM |
#62 |
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NIST took the office contents into account |
Carefulplease |
Aug-23-06 10:30 PM |
#63 |
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NIST did all of the modeling |
DoYouEverWonder |
Aug-25-06 05:58 PM |
#66 |
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No they didn't assume that all the floors were alike. |
Carefulplease |
Aug-25-06 06:26 PM |
#67 |
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"They did estimates for the layouts of floors |
DoYouEverWonder |
Aug-25-06 06:37 PM |
#68 |
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No, I don't think they considered that possibility... |
Carefulplease |
Aug-25-06 07:23 PM |
#69 |
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Of course |
DoYouEverWonder |
Aug-25-06 07:35 PM |
#70 |
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You are right... |
Carefulplease |
Aug-25-06 07:50 PM |
#71 |
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Are you suggesting |
DoYouEverWonder |
Aug-25-06 07:52 PM |
#72 |
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No. I am not "suggesting" that all the floors were occupied. |
Carefulplease |
Aug-26-06 01:31 AM |
#73 |
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Where did I say that they didn't ? |
DoYouEverWonder |
Aug-26-06 05:14 AM |
#77 |
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NIST does not mention any vacant floor in the impact zones. |
Carefulplease |
Aug-26-06 04:42 PM |
#92 |
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Well according to your Wikipedia link |
DoYouEverWonder |
Aug-26-06 06:40 PM |
#93 |
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The 83th floors was not right in the middle of the impact zone. |
Carefulplease |
Aug-26-06 09:41 PM |
#94 |
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According to the chart you posted |
DoYouEverWonder |
Aug-26-06 10:14 PM |
#95 |
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There were no significant fires on floor 78 of WTC2. |
Carefulplease |
Aug-27-06 12:39 AM |
#101 |
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Another issue... |
Carefulplease |
Aug-27-06 12:49 AM |
#102 |
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That is the question |
DoYouEverWonder |
Aug-27-06 05:24 AM |
#103 |
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Yes, I might eventually catch on. |
Carefulplease |
Aug-27-06 03:37 PM |
#110 |
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Well according to the NIST report |
DoYouEverWonder |
Aug-27-06 10:09 PM |
#111 |
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Now it is your turn to do some catching up. (Edited) |
Carefulplease |
Aug-27-06 11:32 PM |
#112 |
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You might want to read again my message #92? |
DoYouEverWonder |
Aug-28-06 07:08 AM |
#115 |
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Gee, what are those birds I hear chirping? |
DoYouEverWonder |
Aug-29-06 04:50 AM |
#117 |
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NIST could not afford to buy the plans. |
Carefulplease |
Aug-27-06 11:39 PM |
#114 |
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Is the NIST your bible? |
seatnineb |
Aug-27-06 09:04 AM |
#104 |
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It doesn't take long |
DoYouEverWonder |
Aug-27-06 09:52 AM |
#105 |
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Yes that is true............. |
seatnineb |
Aug-27-06 01:42 PM |
#106 |
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Ah, that is the other side of the coin |
DoYouEverWonder |
Aug-27-06 01:52 PM |
#107 |
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I think that is a dangerous assumption. |
AZCat |
Aug-27-06 01:58 PM |
#108 |
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What is so dangerous about finding out whether or not |
DoYouEverWonder |
Aug-27-06 02:19 PM |
#109 |
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"dangerous" might not have been the right adjective |
AZCat |
Aug-27-06 11:34 PM |
#113 |
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For WTC2, NIST claims they could not get the plans from the PA |
DoYouEverWonder |
Aug-28-06 07:56 AM |
#116 |
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How can anyone believe that not one , but two towers |
mirandapriestly |
Aug-26-06 02:33 AM |
#74 |
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I doubt that anyone does. I can't believe you've heard |
greyl |
Aug-26-06 02:48 AM |
#75 |
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Welcome to DU Mirandapriestly... |
Carefulplease |
Aug-26-06 04:04 AM |
#76 |
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No, it took me years to reach |
mirandapriestly |
Aug-29-06 05:34 AM |
#118 |
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Way to miss the point. Btw |
greyl |
Aug-29-06 07:28 AM |
#119 |