 |
Edited on Wed Oct-05-05 07:29 PM by spooked911
I set up the following experiment using steel rabbit fencing as the steel structure supporting a heavy cement block. Note, this fencing is easily bendable, has no significant rigidity, and was not reinforced in any way. The fencing was bent into an outer square and an inner rectangle (the core):  Then I damaged the "columns" by cutting them with wire cutters:   Just inside where the gash was made in the outer wall, I placed a cup of kerosene (jet fuel), and there was newspaper around the bottom on the structure. Then I put a heavy cement block on top, weighing about 15 pounds. I don't think the wire structure would hold more than three of these blocks, so the "safety factor" was not particularly high.  Then I tipped over the cup and lit the kerosene:   Then fire burned for about twenty minutes, and toward the end, I put my foot on the structure to see if it would extra weight. It still did:  The structure held up fine after the fire died:  After the fire was hot, the "columns" were not hot at all:  In a second experiment, I used the same wire fence and block set up, but increased the amount of "airplane damage", added in newspaper all around the inside of the structure, and soaked everything thoroughly with kerosene. In this expt, the fire was more intense and lasted significantly longer, but... the structure held up just fine. (Sorry no pictures of this one). What I conclude is that a fairly flimsy steel structure does not distort and bend and collapse very easily from a simple hydrocarbon fire. And thus, it is not clear why the much stronger steel columns in the WTC towers weakened so much from fires that the towers underwent global collapse. If kerosene/jet fuel/hydrocarbon fires can indeed cause steel structures to collapse, it should be quite simple to show this in an experiment-- right?
|
Can a jet fuel/hydrocarbon fire collapse a steel structure? An experiment. |
spooked911 |
Oct-05-05 06:31 PM |
#0 |

keep adding |
MrSammo1 |
Oct-05-05 06:38 PM |
#1 |

Can a non-jet fuel/hydrocarbon fire collapse a steel structure? Reality. |
Make7 |
Oct-05-05 07:41 PM |
#2 |
 
The WTC was not a "lightweight steel bar joist building" |
spooked911 |
Oct-05-05 11:41 PM |
#4 |
  
Was it a chicken wire building? ( n/t ) |
Make7 |
Oct-06-05 03:42 AM |
#10 |
   
Of course not-- all the more reason why it would resist collapse. |
spooked911 |
Oct-06-05 03:42 PM |
#24 |
  
So your original objection, to my posted real world examples,... |
Make7 |
Oct-07-05 04:40 AM |
#33 |
  
the construction method was different. |
petgoat |
Oct-07-05 02:37 PM |
#39 |
  
Spooked's experiments DID test the strength of vertical columns in a fire. |
MercutioATC |
Oct-07-05 11:18 PM |
#48 |
   
LOL! ( n/t ) |
Make7 |
Oct-07-05 11:40 PM |
#53 |
  
Let me see if I understand this. |
Make7 |
Oct-07-05 11:51 PM |
#55 |
  
Do you think heat will affect vertical and horizontal steel |
spooked911 |
Oct-08-05 10:27 AM |
#70 |
  
If it is the same type of steel and is raised to the same temperature... |
Make7 |
Oct-08-05 11:21 AM |
#73 |
  
McCormick Place officially opened in 1960. The fire was in 1967. |
Make7 |
Oct-06-05 11:59 AM |
#16 |
 
I can't find the link right now, but someone on this board had a post |
spooked911 |
Oct-06-05 03:38 PM |
#22 |
 
L'Enfant Plaza |
Kevin Fenton |
Oct-06-05 03:51 PM |
#25 |
 
Do they have exhibits in convention centers still under construction? |
Make7 |
Oct-07-05 04:10 AM |
#32 |
 
Steel |
MrSammo1 |
Oct-07-05 04:48 AM |
#34 |
 
Can a non-jet fuel/hydrocarbon fire collapse |
MrSammo1 |
Oct-07-05 04:55 AM |
#35 |

Well, I"M convinced... |
MercutioATC |
Oct-05-05 11:33 PM |
#3 |
 
I assume you can show us how the fires caused the collapse then? |
spooked911 |
Oct-05-05 11:41 PM |
#5 |

No, obviously you can't either... |
MercutioATC |
Oct-05-05 11:46 PM |
#6 |

"an aluminum can and some kerosene" |
petgoat |
Oct-06-05 01:51 AM |
#7 |

You don't think a hi-rise building is a little more complex than some |
MercutioATC |
Oct-06-05 02:21 AM |
#8 |
 
You don't think a hi-rise building is a little more complex |
petgoat |
Oct-06-05 03:40 AM |
#9 |

Then go ahead and calculate it... |
MercutioATC |
Oct-06-05 04:17 AM |
#11 |
 
I'm asking YOU or LARED or someone who supports the official story |
spooked911 |
Oct-06-05 02:45 PM |
#18 |
  
I'm not accusing you of manipulating the results. |
MercutioATC |
Oct-06-05 11:22 PM |
#29 |
   
Had spooked's cage failed, we could have criticized his study |
petgoat |
Jul-05-06 05:36 PM |
#110 |
  
Actually, it is. |
Totallybushed |
Jul-05-06 04:15 PM |
#107 |
 
There's no point in calculating it. The model is too crude |
petgoat |
Jul-09-06 11:51 AM |
#259 |

Thank you, exactly my point. |
spooked911 |
Oct-06-05 02:41 PM |
#17 |

The behavior of steel under load in a fire |
LARED |
Oct-06-05 06:03 AM |
#12 |

I have checked out what NIST "thinks" |
petgoat |
Oct-07-05 01:06 AM |
#30 |

Exactly!!! |
spooked911 |
Oct-08-05 10:28 AM |
#71 |

I'm just surprised |
WoodrowFan |
Oct-06-05 07:13 AM |
#13 |

If you want to improve your model |
LARED |
Oct-06-05 07:42 AM |
#14 |
 
How about YOU try it, since you believe the official story? |
spooked911 |
Oct-06-05 02:54 PM |
#19 |
  
Because |
LARED |
Oct-06-05 03:26 PM |
#21 |
 
where is their model of the collapse, please? |
spooked911 |
Oct-06-05 03:40 PM |
#23 |
 
Good Lord man, it's here |
LARED |
Oct-06-05 09:35 PM |
#27 |
 
No, I don't want that. I want their model of how fire |
spooked911 |
Oct-06-05 10:56 PM |
#28 |
 
Where is the detailed NIST model of the collapse? |
spooked911 |
Oct-08-05 10:34 AM |
#72 |
 
Actually, the NIST is still trying to duplicate what happened on 9/11 |
Sinti |
Jun-26-06 11:09 AM |
#99 |
 
According to Kevin Ryan, |
petgoat |
Jul-06-06 12:50 PM |
#121 |
 
NIST's fudged models |
Carefulplease |
Jul-07-06 07:07 AM |
#145 |
 
Every single lightweight web truss could have failed |
dailykoff |
Jul-07-06 12:34 PM |
#154 |
  
Are you sure about these beams? |
Carefulplease |
Jul-08-06 12:09 AM |
#181 |
 
Yes. |
dailykoff |
Jul-08-06 03:07 AM |
#187 |
  
Link, please. n/t |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-08-06 04:38 AM |
#216 |
 
File an FOIA request. |
dailykoff |
Jul-08-06 04:45 AM |
#217 |
 
So, you can point out these beams even though you have never seen any |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-08-06 05:04 AM |
#219 |
 
Yes. |
dailykoff |
Jul-08-06 05:10 AM |
#220 |
 
And your evidence that they existed is????? |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-08-06 05:30 AM |
#221 |
 
Find a framing plan and I'll explain it to you. |
dailykoff |
Jul-08-06 05:46 AM |
#222 |
 
Can't answer the question, I see. |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-08-06 05:50 AM |
#223 |
 
I believe I've answered it four times. Good night. (n/t) |
dailykoff |
Jul-08-06 05:53 AM |
#224 |
 
No, you haven't even answered it once. |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-08-06 05:54 AM |
#225 |
 
It seems apparent that she can't. |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-08-06 06:41 AM |
#226 |
 
I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make it think. (n/t) |
dailykoff |
Jul-08-06 10:46 AM |
#227 |
 
Lol. Talk about non-sequiturs.... |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-09-06 03:53 AM |
#239 |
 
I prefer the Dorothy Parker version |
mirandapriestly |
Jul-09-06 03:54 AM |
#240 |
  
Oh, and you think that's clever, I'll bet. |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-09-06 04:01 AM |
#242 |
 
Why is it when I post to you it's a "weird fixation" |
mirandapriestly |
Jul-09-06 04:07 AM |
#244 |
 
I've never made any "personal attacks" on you |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-09-06 04:13 AM |
#245 |
  
So what was on all those deleted posts? |
mirandapriestly |
Jul-10-06 11:09 AM |
#282 |
 
And |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-09-06 04:50 AM |
#246 |
 
Stop stalking me |
mirandapriestly |
Jul-09-06 05:17 AM |
#247 |
 
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jul-09-06 05:31 AM |
#248 |
 
delete dupe. |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-09-06 05:43 AM |
#250 |
 
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jul-09-06 10:10 AM |
#255 |
 
Sing....sing a song... |
boloboffin |
Jul-09-06 12:19 PM |
#261 |
 
Buddy, Rewind and replay "Bush supporters" "neocons" "paid shills" ... |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-09-06 01:15 PM |
#268 |
 
Funny , I didn't see him say ANY of those words. |
mirandapriestly |
Jul-10-06 11:05 AM |
#281 |
 
Do no truss conspiracy sites about trusses. |
Carefulplease |
Jul-09-06 05:36 AM |
#249 |
 
Trusses and beams. |
Carefulplease |
Jul-09-06 07:14 AM |
#251 |
 
You should try reading the NIST report . |
dailykoff |
Jul-12-06 11:37 PM |
#292 |
 
Any evidence for these joist girders? |
Carefulplease |
Jul-13-06 05:10 AM |
#295 |
 
I said you should read it, not believe it. |
dailykoff |
Jul-13-06 06:16 AM |
#296 |
 
Where did you hear about these mystery girders? |
Carefulplease |
Jul-13-06 05:38 PM |
#302 |
 
What tipped me off |
dailykoff |
Jul-13-06 07:07 PM |
#303 |
 
Welcome to DU! Please provide links to support your assertions. |
petgoat |
Jul-07-06 02:04 PM |
#160 |
 
Here is some support... |
Carefulplease |
Jul-07-06 11:42 PM |
#180 |
 
No, a realistic similulation would have the fencing at about 0.7" high, |
pox americana |
Oct-07-05 03:12 PM |
#40 |

Actually, no. |
MercutioATC |
Oct-07-05 10:23 PM |
#45 |

It would also have 60 columns per side instead of 20. |
pox americana |
Oct-07-05 10:56 PM |
#46 |

Absolute B.S. |
MercutioATC |
Oct-07-05 11:13 PM |
#47 |

Tell it to the engineers |
pox americana |
Oct-07-05 11:20 PM |
#49 |

Yes, but engineers scale their experiments to real buildings... |
MercutioATC |
Oct-07-05 11:26 PM |
#50 |
 
Let's start with the width-height ratio. |
pox americana |
Oct-07-05 11:39 PM |
#52 |

You're kidding, right? |
MercutioATC |
Oct-08-05 12:49 AM |
#58 |

Evidently you haven't been paying attention. |
pox americana |
Oct-08-05 01:13 AM |
#60 |

Evidently, your criteria are much more lenient than mine... |
MercutioATC |
Oct-08-05 01:28 AM |
#61 |

Already covered, but here's a make-up session: |
pox americana |
Oct-08-05 01:56 AM |
#63 |

Actually, it's not been "covered". |
MercutioATC |
Oct-08-05 02:02 AM |
#64 |

If you want to believe Home Depot uses better steel |
pox americana |
Oct-08-05 02:09 AM |
#65 |

You're still choosing not to answer my questions. |
MercutioATC |
Oct-08-05 02:46 AM |
#66 |

Asking an obvious question repeatedly |
pox americana |
Oct-08-05 05:47 AM |
#67 |

Pretty much what I expected. |
MercutioATC |
Oct-09-05 02:42 AM |
#76 |

A valiant attempt MercutioATC.... |
Macadian |
Jul-05-06 04:57 PM |
#109 |

Consider this |
Martensitic Madness |
Jul-07-06 01:38 PM |
#157 |

Your premise that the bolts failed is of the Zipper-Pancake epoch |
petgoat |
Jul-07-06 01:58 PM |
#159 |

So you're going to stick with... |
Macadian |
Jul-07-06 02:31 PM |
#162 |

Hey Mac, one PhD says the flimsy truss clips unzipped, the |
petgoat |
Jul-07-06 03:41 PM |
#166 |

Perhaps you should read up on wind tunnel testing. |
AZCat |
Oct-07-05 11:27 PM |
#51 |

Thanks for the suggestion. n/t |
pox americana |
Oct-07-05 11:41 PM |
#54 |

You are welcome. |
AZCat |
Oct-08-05 12:00 AM |
#56 |

A simple example for structural scaling. |
AZCat |
Oct-08-05 07:52 AM |
#68 |

While this model is not an acurate representation.. |
atomic-fly |
Oct-06-05 09:26 AM |
#15 |

Interesting experiment. |
Old and In the Way |
Oct-06-05 03:23 PM |
#20 |
 
An issue NIST (I think I remember this) raises is that differential heat |
petgoat |
Oct-07-05 01:13 AM |
#31 |

Experimental confirmation of what I've long suspected: |
pox americana |
Oct-06-05 03:52 PM |
#26 |

Good try, but... |
thewormman |
Oct-07-05 06:24 AM |
#36 |

Good try, but... |
thewormman |
Oct-07-05 06:26 AM |
#37 |

You should see the National Geographic documentary |
Frederik |
Oct-07-05 11:33 AM |
#38 |
 
That's show biz. |
pox americana |
Oct-07-05 03:19 PM |
#41 |

Oh please |
Frederik |
Oct-07-05 04:04 PM |
#42 |
 
I think I'd be equally critical of both |
pox americana |
Oct-07-05 08:04 PM |
#43 |

The documentary |
Frederik |
Oct-08-05 03:57 PM |
#74 |

Logically, I'd want to get... |
StrafingMoose |
Oct-08-05 04:03 PM |
#75 |

When did spooked get into the engineering business??? |
Macadian |
Jul-05-06 04:54 PM |
#108 |

A valid point, but we should hold History and National Geographic |
petgoat |
Jul-05-06 05:39 PM |
#111 |

Well, yes & no.... |
Macadian |
Jul-06-06 08:57 AM |
#117 |

"Spooked has not met even the low standards" |
petgoat |
Jul-06-06 12:53 PM |
#122 |

Backyard science is fine and dandy.... |
Macadian |
Jul-06-06 01:53 PM |
#130 |

the problem |
Bouvet_Island |
Oct-07-05 09:09 PM |
#44 |
 
The analyis he posted on another thead is more convincing to me |
philb |
Oct-08-05 12:01 AM |
#57 |

couple of questions about your experiment... |
kevinam |
Oct-08-05 01:06 AM |
#59 |
 
None of that matters. |
MercutioATC |
Oct-08-05 01:32 AM |
#62 |
 
Good points. But one by one-- |
spooked911 |
Oct-08-05 10:26 AM |
#69 |

Third expt with a similar set-up: |
spooked911 |
Oct-12-05 12:36 PM |
#77 |
 
Bravo, Spooked. |
petgoat |
Oct-12-05 06:03 PM |
#78 |
  
Thanks! I've thought about doing what you say, actually, but haven't had |
spooked911 |
Oct-12-05 06:49 PM |
#80 |
 
This proves it then. |
Make7 |
Oct-12-05 06:34 PM |
#79 |
  
Sorry, I didn't write that up properly. The fire was strong for about |
spooked911 |
Oct-12-05 06:52 PM |
#81 |
 
Jesus! Why not try modeling your "experiment" after the actual buildings? |
MercutioATC |
Oct-12-05 10:19 PM |
#82 |

You're more than welcome to do your own experiment |
spooked911 |
Oct-13-05 10:15 PM |
#84 |

No need, i'm conviced. |
mike923 |
Jul-06-06 12:28 PM |
#120 |

Couple of points |
Lithos |
Oct-12-05 11:08 PM |
#83 |
 
It's NOT chicken wire, it is garden fencing meant to keep out rabbits. And |
spooked911 |
Oct-13-05 10:32 PM |
#85 |

I think it's the unsupported length of the column... |
AZCat |
Oct-13-05 10:38 PM |
#86 |

Kick |
Jazz2006 |
Jun-24-06 02:17 AM |
#87 |
 
I never saw this before. |
greyl |
Jun-25-06 01:09 AM |
#88 |

Bunnies |
Jazz2006 |
Jun-25-06 01:24 AM |
#89 |

Sources tell me that spooked is a scientist. |
greyl |
Jun-25-06 01:37 AM |
#90 |
 
Sources tell me |
Jazz2006 |
Jun-25-06 01:42 AM |
#91 |
  
How do we prove that we're friendly to the honest ones? nt |
greyl |
Jun-25-06 01:50 AM |
#92 |
 
Same as always, by words and actions. n/t |
Jazz2006 |
Jun-25-06 01:54 AM |
#93 |
 
Take care of your goodness. |
greyl |
Jun-25-06 01:58 AM |
#94 |
 
Always. |
Jazz2006 |
Jun-25-06 02:01 AM |
#95 |
 
That ought to be easy |
mirandapriestly |
Jul-07-06 08:28 PM |
#176 |
 
Ohhhhh, you so totally dissed me! |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-08-06 02:18 AM |
#184 |
 
If you would bother to look at spooked's blog and take a |
petgoat |
Jun-25-06 11:57 AM |
#97 |

Thanks for your input. |
Jazz2006 |
Jun-29-06 11:17 PM |
#102 |

Ah, there's those prize-winning emoticons again. |
petgoat |
Jun-25-06 11:51 AM |
#96 |

Sorry, you lose. My emoticons are bigger than yours. |
petgoat |
Jun-25-06 04:15 PM |
#98 |

Thanks again x2 for your input. |
Jazz2006 |
Jun-29-06 11:21 PM |
#103 |

OMG, bwahaha. |
mirandapriestly |
Jul-07-06 09:28 PM |
#178 |

Thanks for your observation. |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-08-06 02:17 AM |
#183 |

Suggestion for 2 new experiments: WTC 7 |
Jeroen |
Jun-28-06 11:03 AM |
#100 |
 
yep...scaling is the problem |
bobby911 |
Jun-29-06 07:03 AM |
#101 |

WTC test |
lcwilson |
Jul-05-06 01:31 PM |
#104 |
 
Welcome to DU! :) nt |
greyl |
Jul-05-06 01:44 PM |
#105 |

Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jul-05-06 02:30 PM |
#106 |
 
Welcome to DU ryams! |
petgoat |
Jul-05-06 05:44 PM |
#112 |
  
Thanks... |
ryams27 |
Jul-06-06 09:43 AM |
#118 |
 
That's circular reasoning. |
petgoat |
Jul-06-06 01:04 PM |
#123 |
 
Psst, they've been banned. Thanks for rolling out the red carpet |
greyl |
Jul-06-06 01:25 PM |
#128 |
 
That wasn't just a RW troll! That was Jonah his own self! |
boloboffin |
Jul-06-06 02:04 PM |
#132 |
 
You might be correct, but I'm not convinced. ;) |
greyl |
Jul-06-06 02:13 PM |
#134 |
 
Lookee here... |
boloboffin |
Jul-05-06 11:20 PM |
#113 |

Nice job. :) |
greyl |
Jul-06-06 06:33 AM |
#114 |

Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jul-06-06 09:45 AM |
#119 |

Please tell me you're joking. |
NoiseLTD |
Jul-06-06 07:48 AM |
#115 |
 
Welcome to DU, however |
greyl |
Jul-06-06 08:20 AM |
#116 |

Do you have any specific criticisms, or any constructive |
petgoat |
Jul-06-06 01:06 PM |
#124 |
 
You said "spooked's experiment proves nothing". |
greyl |
Jul-06-06 01:17 PM |
#125 |
 
See Fair Enough... |
NoiseLTD |
Jul-06-06 01:21 PM |
#127 |

Fair enough... |
NoiseLTD |
Jul-06-06 01:18 PM |
#126 |

Yep, I pretty much agree with all of that. |
greyl |
Jul-06-06 01:37 PM |
#129 |
 
links? |
NoiseLTD |
Jul-06-06 02:03 PM |
#131 |

Here ya go: |
greyl |
Jul-06-06 02:07 PM |
#133 |

"You have someone positing a conspiracy based on..." |
petgoat |
Jul-06-06 03:38 PM |
#135 |

well said amigo |
BrokenBeyondRepair |
Jul-06-06 04:19 PM |
#136 |

This confirms what I've suspected all along |
enough already |
Jul-06-06 05:41 PM |
#137 |
 
This confirms nothing |
Codeine |
Jul-06-06 05:52 PM |
#138 |

Yes, far too many DUers waste time because of so much... |
BuddyYoung |
Jul-06-06 06:04 PM |
#139 |

Don't you know any other tunes, Buddy? |
boloboffin |
Jul-06-06 06:18 PM |
#140 |

C'mon boloboffin, that one's getting old. |
BuddyYoung |
Jul-06-06 08:16 PM |
#143 |

You're telling me. |
boloboffin |
Jul-06-06 11:09 PM |
#144 |

I've already told you, and so have plenty of other people. |
BuddyYoung |
Jul-07-06 10:49 AM |
#149 |
 
You do know two songs! |
boloboffin |
Jul-07-06 12:27 PM |
#153 |

Three: You forgot about "I Can See Thru OCT'er BS Clearly Now". |
BuddyYoung |
Jul-07-06 01:50 PM |
#158 |

They don't need a songbook, |
carlvs |
Jul-07-06 11:18 AM |
#150 |

:rofl: |
grytpype |
Jul-06-06 06:52 PM |
#141 |

Great work! Now try a scientific experiment. |
The Night Owl |
Jul-06-06 07:12 PM |
#142 |

wtf? |
aikoaiko |
Jul-07-06 08:56 AM |
#146 |
 
Consider it a joke at your own risk |
slackmaster |
Jul-07-06 10:47 AM |
#148 |
 
Serious Stuff! |
sighkobabl |
Jul-07-06 05:36 PM |
#171 |

I'm glad the bunny got away |
slackmaster |
Jul-07-06 10:46 AM |
#147 |

Structural engineering |
joshbetts |
Jul-07-06 12:02 PM |
#151 |
 
what's your take on the molten steel/iron dripping out the.. |
BrokenBeyondRepair |
Jul-07-06 01:21 PM |
#156 |

what's your take on the molten steel/iron dripping out the.. |
joshbetts |
Jul-07-06 02:23 PM |
#161 |

serious? |
BrokenBeyondRepair |
Jul-07-06 02:42 PM |
#163 |

serious? |
joshbetts |
Jul-07-06 03:14 PM |
#164 |
 
the laws of physic aren't up for debate |
BrokenBeyondRepair |
Jul-07-06 03:59 PM |
#167 |
  
BrokenBeyondRepair, |
joshbetts |
Jul-07-06 04:13 PM |
#168 |
 
obviously, there is reasonable doubt |
BrokenBeyondRepair |
Jul-07-06 04:31 PM |
#169 |
 
It is disingenuous to require proof of a proposition when you |
petgoat |
Jul-07-06 08:10 PM |
#174 |

I'm not being disingenuous. |
joshlbetts |
Jul-08-06 05:31 PM |
#234 |

Which link contains structural drawings for the WTC? |
dailykoff |
Jul-09-06 12:47 AM |
#236 |

dailykoff, Here are some copies of the actual drawings and calculations. |
joshlbetts |
Jul-09-06 12:15 PM |
#260 |

Thanks, that's helpful. |
dailykoff |
Jul-10-06 01:44 AM |
#276 |

The burning drips look a lot like burning molten plastic. |
aikoaiko |
Jul-07-06 07:53 PM |
#172 |

It appears to be giving off light. In my experience burning |
petgoat |
Jul-07-06 08:07 PM |
#173 |

this is the only image of melting plastic i could.. |
BrokenBeyondRepair |
Jul-07-06 09:05 PM |
#177 |
 
Just put a plastic bag on a stick and stick over a small fire. |
aikoaiko |
Jul-07-06 11:05 PM |
#179 |
  
Sounds like an easily-tested hypothesis. Please provide |
petgoat |
Jul-08-06 03:30 AM |
#191 |
 
I hate to break this to you, but pictures on the internet is not science. |
aikoaiko |
Jul-09-06 08:25 AM |
#253 |
 
It proves my point. The material in the firefall at WTC2 was incandescent |
petgoat |
Jul-09-06 11:42 AM |
#257 |
 
sorry, I don't think you don't understand what you're seeing. |
aikoaiko |
Jul-09-06 03:45 PM |
#269 |
 
I understand what I'm seeing just fine. Maybe my diction is off. |
petgoat |
Jul-09-06 04:08 PM |
#270 |
 
"can never be proven beyond doubt" |
petgoat |
Jul-08-06 03:27 AM |
#189 |

there will always be those that doubt or.. |
BrokenBeyondRepair |
Jul-08-06 03:40 AM |
#194 |
 
It looks like molten steel to me, and no alternate explanation |
petgoat |
Jul-08-06 03:46 AM |
#197 |

Then take your own suggestion. |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-08-06 03:51 AM |
#200 |

I don't need to. I already have, I've melted plastic, steel, and |
petgoat |
Jul-08-06 04:03 AM |
#204 |

So post your images as you've asked others to. |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-08-06 04:09 AM |
#209 |

Oh, and that reminds me.... epistemology |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-08-06 04:55 AM |
#218 |

Melt steel, melt aluminum, melt plastic, pour them off a fifty foot drop.. |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-08-06 03:50 AM |
#198 |

The ball's in your court. Everyone knows plastic make flames, |
petgoat |
Jul-08-06 03:52 AM |
#201 |

No, it isn't. |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-08-06 03:58 AM |
#203 |

So take my suggestion. Let's build a bad model that endures, |
petgoat |
Jul-08-06 04:05 AM |
#205 |

According to your suggestion (which you've now changed), it is so |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-08-06 04:08 AM |
#208 |

Sorry, I got this experiment mixed up with another one I |
petgoat |
Jul-08-06 03:19 PM |
#231 |

"I'd had a few bottles of wine." |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-12-06 02:59 AM |
#291 |

Have you recovered sufficiently from those "few bottles of wine" yet to |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-13-06 03:38 AM |
#294 |

Nope, nor have a got photos showing rain is wet and sun is dry. nt |
petgoat |
Jul-13-06 12:03 PM |
#300 |

I'm not surprised that you haven't backed up what you said. |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-13-06 10:48 PM |
#307 |

Couldn't it be aluminum from the airplane that was burnt up inside the |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-08-06 02:29 AM |
#185 |

unlikely.. |
BrokenBeyondRepair |
Jul-08-06 03:29 AM |
#190 |

That's not convincing. |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-08-06 03:45 AM |
#196 |

Aluminium melts at 600 degrees, at which point it is silvery, |
petgoat |
Jul-08-06 03:50 AM |
#199 |

Sorry, but I'm not convinced by your say so that it could not have |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-08-06 03:57 AM |
#202 |
 
Pffft. nt |
petgoat |
Jul-08-06 04:07 AM |
#206 |

I didn't expect you to be able to respond meaningfully. |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-08-06 04:11 AM |
#210 |

Pfft. |
petgoat |
Jul-08-06 04:12 AM |
#212 |

Pfft is right! |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-08-06 04:16 AM |
#213 |

Oh, an edit which I should respond to, I see. |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-08-06 04:31 AM |
#215 |

Pearls at Swine, PG...nt |
mirandapriestly |
Jul-09-06 03:41 AM |
#238 |

LOL. |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-09-06 03:56 AM |
#241 |

This is pretty funny |
capt havermeyer |
Jul-07-06 12:17 PM |
#152 |
 
Science Experiment |
TheRealSwede |
Jul-07-06 01:05 PM |
#155 |

Fantastic |
JudgeSmails |
Jul-07-06 03:16 PM |
#165 |

Test Explosive Demolition Hypothesis |
what the |
Jul-07-06 04:54 PM |
#170 |
 
Now that's funny! Let's try the thermate hypothesis instead, ok? nt |
petgoat |
Jul-07-06 08:11 PM |
#175 |
  
Blacksmith's forge |
what the |
Jul-10-06 05:25 PM |
#287 |
 
Charcoal forges have forced air. They also have.... charcoal. |
petgoat |
Jul-13-06 02:30 AM |
#293 |
 
Heat conduction etc. |
what the |
Jul-14-06 09:31 PM |
#309 |
 
You stole those words from my mouth... |
Carefulplease |
Jul-15-06 01:46 AM |
#310 |
 
LOL ~ good one! |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-08-06 02:39 AM |
#186 |

You guys are nuts |
allfathersgodi |
Jul-08-06 12:19 AM |
#182 |

Sorry, doesn't prove a thing either way. |
rman |
Jul-08-06 03:22 AM |
#188 |
 
Ahhhh, you're getting to the synthesis. |
petgoat |
Jul-08-06 03:35 AM |
#192 |

Not just any model |
rman |
Jul-08-06 03:38 AM |
#193 |

Not necessarily. Building bad models can be helpful to |
petgoat |
Jul-08-06 03:43 AM |
#195 |

What's a good model, how do you know it's good? |
rman |
Jul-08-06 04:08 AM |
#207 |
 
"I doubt that any of us has the means" |
petgoat |
Jul-08-06 04:11 AM |
#211 |

We can't go on unverifiable information |
rman |
Jul-08-06 04:31 AM |
#214 |

We don't have the means to model it accurately. |
petgoat |
Jul-08-06 03:27 PM |
#232 |

it'd not be a known error because we have no reference, |
rman |
Jul-09-06 03:29 AM |
#237 |

I didn't mean a "known error" as in a "measured" or |
petgoat |
Jul-09-06 11:46 AM |
#258 |

np. However, |
rman |
Jul-10-06 12:24 AM |
#271 |

We can't know how large the error is until we experiment and |
petgoat |
Jul-13-06 12:01 PM |
#299 |

Fine procedure for challenging the Titanic hoax. |
Carefulplease |
Jul-15-06 02:52 AM |
#311 |

New kid in town, posting like the old OCT'ers in town. Imagine that! |
BuddyYoung |
Jul-15-06 11:42 AM |
#312 |

Glass houses, Mr. June 26th. n/t |
boloboffin |
Jul-15-06 11:50 AM |
#313 |
 
See post #314 |
BuddyYoung |
Jul-16-06 10:20 PM |
#315 |

You know... |
salvorhardin |
Jul-16-06 09:28 PM |
#314 |

The press might be interested... |
Carefulplease |
Jul-08-06 01:38 PM |
#229 |

The Stupidity of the Left |
allfathersgodi |
Jul-08-06 01:21 PM |
#228 |
 
Good point, but I'd like to think some Democrats and |
petgoat |
Jul-08-06 02:04 PM |
#230 |
 
Actually quite a few GOP have come out |
mirandapriestly |
Jul-09-06 04:02 AM |
#243 |

is this a joke? |
omenapoint |
Jul-08-06 04:18 PM |
#233 |

You are an idiot |
demfool |
Jul-08-06 05:40 PM |
#235 |
 
See how easy it is |
mirandapriestly |
Jul-09-06 12:27 PM |
#264 |

And who would suspect that anyone with a screen name |
rman |
Jul-10-06 12:27 AM |
#272 |

Surely, just another one of those totally unexpected COINCIDENCES. nt |
BuddyYoung |
Jul-10-06 12:36 AM |
#273 |

Are you saying that |
mirandapriestly |
Jul-10-06 12:44 AM |
#274 |

Incredible and unprecedented as it may seem, |
rman |
Jul-10-06 12:50 AM |
#275 |

I'm shocked.nt |
mirandapriestly |
Jul-10-06 11:09 AM |
#283 |

You are famous |
Stella_Artois |
Jul-09-06 07:53 AM |
#252 |
 
So I'e heard. Although I'm not really clear why what I did is so |
spooked911 |
Jul-09-06 09:54 AM |
#254 |
  
Those people don't talk for all of us |
DrDebug |
Jul-09-06 12:21 PM |
#262 |
  
I agree. |
Old and In the Way |
Jul-09-06 12:28 PM |
#265 |
  
What is the saying |
mirandapriestly |
Jul-09-06 12:29 PM |
#266 |
   
what's funny to me is how they point to this experiment |
spooked911 |
Jul-09-06 12:39 PM |
#267 |
  
Because those of us living in NYC |
emMingo |
Jul-10-06 10:30 AM |
#277 |
   
uh-huh, sure you did. |
mirandapriestly |
Jul-10-06 10:58 AM |
#279 |
  
Different reasons, depending on where one is coming from |
BuddyYoung |
Jul-10-06 10:50 AM |
#278 |
  
They NEVER post on the threads |
mirandapriestly |
Jul-10-06 10:59 AM |
#280 |
   
I hadn't noticed that, but you are certainly right. A jazz bump, then |
BuddyYoung |
Jul-10-06 02:29 PM |
#285 |
   
Lol ~ that must be it. |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-11-06 03:30 AM |
#289 |
  
Once they saw these pictures, there was no need to look for |
boloboffin |
Jul-10-06 12:48 PM |
#284 |
  
It's could be the footwear. |
Jazz2006 |
Jul-11-06 03:25 AM |
#288 |
  
I think you did it with the full knowledge of the results |
Generarth |
Jul-14-06 09:25 AM |
#308 |
 
Those who say that about DU are going to say it anyway |
mirandapriestly |
Jul-09-06 12:23 PM |
#263 |

Who knows |
Stella_Artois |
Jul-10-06 04:03 PM |
#286 |

Spooked is not claiming the rabbit cage experiment |
petgoat |
Jul-13-06 11:53 AM |
#298 |

Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jul-09-06 10:15 AM |
#256 |

LMAO...Can you say "not to scale" |
Freedom_Aflaim |
Jul-11-06 12:09 PM |
#290 |
 
Not to scale is right. |
petgoat |
Jul-13-06 11:51 AM |
#297 |

How?! |
boolean |
Jul-13-06 03:53 PM |
#301 |

Welcome to DU, Boolean |
petgoat |
Jul-13-06 07:31 PM |
#304 |

Now it's my turn |
boolean |
Jul-13-06 08:26 PM |
#305 |

Ok |
petgoat |
Jul-13-06 08:55 PM |
#306 |

You REALLY need to find a different hobby. Just friendly advice. |
Redstone |
Jul-16-06 10:23 PM |
#316 |

Locking |
Lithos |
Jul-16-06 10:32 PM |
#317 |