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Reply #116: I was being sarcastic. I didn't think you'd take it literally... [View All]

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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #115
116. I was being sarcastic. I didn't think you'd take it literally...
I guess you forgot to wait an hour before responding, or are you going to edit that one out now?
Here's what you wrote just minutes ago:

Note: I'm replying to the post you wrote initially where you answered no and spoke of Arab regimes making it so democracy can't emerge, as you came back and edited yr post while I was responding to it. I'll wait an hour in future before replying to ensure you don't change yr mind about what you've said.

And FYI, I responded to Azurnoir's question, not your strawman.

Are you aware of the difference between the 2 questions?

Uh, thanks for reposting what I posted, which is something I've got no intention of editing out. It's really helpful and all!

What on earth are you going on about? I repeated Az's question to you. You answered it and originally said that Arab regimes made it so democracy could never emerge, then edited it all out as I was replying to the post and changed it to something else.I then asked you a question based on the answer I originally saw. Asking you a question about the answer I saw from you is not a strawman. For it to be a strawman, it would have to be a question where yr being attributed with something you didn't say. In this case you did say it, so it's not a strawman at all. BTW, for anyone playing along at home and participating in the Strawman Drinking Game, this is a big 4 drink post! Get drinking!!
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  -Hosni Mubarak splits Israel from neocon supporters shira  Feb-05-11 05:05 PM   #0 
  - tut-tut nt  DURHAM D   Feb-05-11 05:14 PM   #1 
  - And Israel should...?  saras   Feb-05-11 05:38 PM   #2 
  - The good news is the Egyptians don't give a damn about the Palestinians.  aquart   Feb-05-11 05:42 PM   #3 
  - "No such thing as an Israeli Neo-con"  shira   Feb-05-11 06:06 PM   #4 
  - In other words  whosinpower   Feb-06-11 10:53 AM   #7 
     - Real genuine liberal democracy of course, but not another Gaza 2005 "democratic" election. Why....  shira   Feb-08-11 04:15 AM   #11 
        - You don't get to choose  whosinpower   Feb-08-11 09:09 AM   #12 
        - 2 points...and a question for you.  shira   Feb-08-11 07:18 PM   #14 
           - counter points  whosinpower   Feb-09-11 11:27 AM   #28 
           - Please answer my question first - if it's the will of the people to bring about theocracy and war  shira   Feb-10-11 05:03 PM   #35 
              - Again - you obscure  whosinpower   Feb-11-11 03:00 PM   #45 
              - There are no indications genuine liberal democratic reform is happening in Egypt...  shira   Feb-11-11 03:12 PM   #46 
                 - Do you honestly think  whosinpower   Feb-11-11 06:07 PM   #58 
                    - No, I don't think Kach would stand a chance winning in Israel....  shira   Feb-11-11 08:52 PM   #78 
                       - I'm against having those parties get elected, or gain support by OTHER means  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 09:02 PM   #80 
                          - Fair enough - but realize I consider all those political parties to be openly racist, hateful...  shira   Feb-11-11 09:23 PM   #82 
                             - I agree that those parties SHOULDN'T be running any countries.  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 09:33 PM   #85 
                                - But if those parties win and remain in power, so be it? Oh well? n/t  shira   Feb-13-11 05:48 AM   #128 
                                   - Those parties can't be stopped by barring them from elections  Ken Burch   Feb-13-11 11:47 AM   #130 
              - You can't assume that that IS the will of the people  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 03:41 PM   #53 
           - That last question is meaningless.  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 03:33 PM   #51 
        - another Gaza 2005 "democratic" election. you mean the one held  azurnoir   Feb-08-11 02:36 PM   #13 
        - Why is it so difficult for YOU to comprehend  Ken Burch   Feb-09-11 04:33 AM   #22 
           - Do you believe Hamas coming to power and weakening PLO rule is a good thing?  shira   Feb-09-11 04:40 AM   #24 
           - It couldn't have been legitimate to forbid Hamas from coming to power after it won the election.  Ken Burch   Feb-09-11 04:46 AM   #25 
              - Hamas should not have been allowed to run...  shira   Feb-09-11 04:57 AM   #26 
                 - Kach was a much smaller party than Hamas  Ken Burch   Feb-09-11 11:09 AM   #27 
                 - If only it were that easy  whosinpower   Feb-09-11 06:34 PM   #31 
                    - Do you believe the Nazi party should be allowed to run in any liberal democracy - as well as Kach  shira   Feb-10-11 04:53 PM   #34 
                       - Neo-Nazi parties are allowed to run in many liberal democracies  LeftishBrit   Feb-11-11 10:55 AM   #43 
                          - As bad as the BNP is, they're hardly the Nazi party. Now would you support Israel legalizing  shira   Feb-11-11 03:13 PM   #47 
                             - Are you ever going to let this line of questioning go?  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 07:46 PM   #61 
                                - So Ken, you'd support Kach being legalized as a political party again in Israel?  shira   Feb-11-11 08:27 PM   #62 
                                   - Why are you so OBSESSED with this question of banning parties?  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 08:37 PM   #65 
                                      - Thank you for answering. Now how about allowing the Nazi party to run? For or against? N/T  shira   Feb-11-11 08:40 PM   #67 
                                         - Irrelevant. Please stop with this.  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 08:43 PM   #70 
                                            - I'm not equating Egyptians with Nazis, so stop with the strawman.  shira   Feb-11-11 08:45 PM   #73 
                                               - It doesn't matter. Stop this. It's abusive  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 08:47 PM   #76 
                                                  - If you don't want to answer questions, then stop following me around with your strawmen. n/t  shira   Feb-12-11 05:34 AM   #105 
                                                  - Implying that I "don't want to answer questions" is ITSELF a strawman.  Ken Burch   Feb-12-11 11:20 PM   #123 
                                                  - You need to look up the definition of straw man. n/t  shira   Feb-13-11 05:47 AM   #127 
                                                  - I don't accuse of you positions you don't hold  Ken Burch   Feb-13-11 11:45 AM   #129 
           - you have to admit...  Shaktimaan   Feb-11-11 03:27 PM   #49 
  - Which Neocons????  OHdem10   Feb-05-11 07:28 PM   #5 
  - Neocons who are for the spread of democracy, or just electing different tyrants, in rogue regimes.  shira   Feb-06-11 09:33 AM   #6 
     - Why are you so obsessed with the notion that elections in Egypt can ONLY lead  Ken Burch   Feb-07-11 11:51 AM   #9 
        - Chances are like 99% that things remain about the same in Egypt or get worse...  shira   Feb-08-11 07:22 PM   #15 
           - Then the best way to prevent war is to do what they want  Ken Burch   Feb-08-11 08:31 PM   #16 
              - And what is it they want? What if they want more conflict with Israel, more war?  shira   Feb-09-11 03:47 AM   #17 
                 - Their own words and deeds.  Ken Burch   Feb-09-11 03:59 AM   #18 
                    - What are their words? What liberal values do they stand for? n/t  shira   Feb-09-11 04:11 AM   #19 
                    - Free elections and democracy.  Ken Burch   Feb-10-11 11:44 PM   #40 
                       - What kind of democracy? With basic civil rights, separation of powers, checks/balances, etc.?  shira   Feb-11-11 03:17 PM   #48 
                          - Kach values are winning in Israeli politics anyway.  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 03:30 PM   #50 
                             - That's not an answer, not to mention you don't know what you're talking about  shira   Feb-11-11 04:15 PM   #54 
                                - You're STILL obsessed with saying Hamas shouldn't have been allowed to run  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 04:33 PM   #55 
                                   - Hamas is clear that they never want peace with Israel or 2 states...  shira   Feb-11-11 05:13 PM   #56 
                                      - What is your alternative?  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 07:25 PM   #59 
                                         - So you're for democratically electing Hamas - an organization that once in power remains in power?  shira   Feb-11-11 08:30 PM   #63 
                                            - It could NEVER be "pro-democracy" to ban a party from contesting elections  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 08:40 PM   #66 
                                               - How can it be democratic to vote a party in that will never allow itself to be voted out? n/t  shira   Feb-11-11 08:41 PM   #69 
                                                  - How can it be democratic to ban a whole party?  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 08:45 PM   #72 
                                                  - So you believe it's democratic to vote an un-democratic party into power that will never allow  shira   Feb-11-11 08:47 PM   #75 
                                                  - I'm not supporting the ELECTION of Hamas.  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 08:52 PM   #77 
                                                  - Another strawman as I'm not suggesting you support Hamas, only that you support...  shira   Feb-11-11 08:56 PM   #79 
                                                  - No strawman. In a post just above this, you asked me the following:  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 09:09 PM   #81 
                                                  - Oh please, I never implied any such thing...  shira   Feb-11-11 09:30 PM   #83 
                                                  - It's not democratic to vote in a "king for life":  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 09:39 PM   #87 
                                                  - Ken, here's the reason the choice is only between Mubarak's regime and the MB...  shira   Feb-11-11 09:45 PM   #88 
                                                  - And you've just made the case for REMOVING Mubarak.  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 09:54 PM   #89 
                                                  - Nope. I just made the case that a secular/liberal movement won't fill the void....  shira   Feb-11-11 09:59 PM   #90 
                                                  - In other words, you have no respect at all for what the Egyptian people just did.  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 10:01 PM   #91 
                                                  - Yet another strawman. n/t  shira   Feb-11-11 10:03 PM   #92 
                                                  - No. I responded to the substance of what you've said.  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 10:04 PM   #93 
                                                  - You're creating strawmen and knocking them down, Ken. Now please stop attributing positions to me..  shira   Feb-11-11 10:13 PM   #96 
                                                  - Mubarak is no longer able to guarantee that.  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 10:15 PM   #97 
                                                  - Right, Suleiman and the Egyptian military will guarantee that now.  shira   Feb-11-11 10:17 PM   #100 
                                                  - then let's stop playing games do you believe Arab societies as they exist today  azurnoir   Feb-11-11 10:53 PM   #103 
                                                  - Read the article in #88 and that will answer your question. n/t  shira   Feb-12-11 05:36 AM   #106 
                                                  - You were asked if you believe Arab societies as they exist today...  Violet_Crumble   Feb-12-11 06:18 AM   #109 
                                                  - Depends, Tunisia yes, Egypt no...  shira   Feb-12-11 06:35 AM   #110 
                                                  - How is it possible to know for certain that a democracy can never emerge?  Violet_Crumble   Feb-12-11 06:42 AM   #112 
                                                  - The question was whether it could emerge as things currently exist in the Arab world  shira   Feb-12-11 06:57 AM   #113 
                                                  - You said it in the post I replied to before you edited it...  Violet_Crumble   Feb-12-11 07:01 AM   #114 
                                                  - I guess you forgot to wait an hour before responding, or are you going to edit that one out now?  shira   Feb-12-11 07:05 AM   #115 
                                                  - I was being sarcastic. I didn't think you'd take it literally...  Violet_Crumble   Feb-12-11 07:17 AM   #116 
                                                  - I answered Az's question and did not make the claim you're attributing to me.  shira   Feb-12-11 07:21 AM   #117 
                                                  - You most definitely did say that Arab regimes made it so democracy can never emerge...  Violet_Crumble   Feb-12-11 07:30 AM   #118 
                                                  - if you can not answer that is fine, it is an answer in it self n/t  azurnoir   Feb-12-11 09:06 AM   #119 
                                                  - See #110. n/t  shira   Feb-12-11 01:36 PM   #120 
                    - Also, don't you realize the PLO is scared to death about regime change in Egypt?  shira   Feb-09-11 04:20 AM   #20 
                       - No you're not.  Ken Burch   Feb-09-11 04:27 AM   #21 
                          - Can you please answer my question first? n/t  shira   Feb-09-11 04:36 AM   #23 
                             - Your question is demagogic, racist and unworthy of answer.  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 07:44 PM   #60 
                                - The answer is that for the sake of peace, human rights, and real democracy...  shira   Feb-11-11 08:34 PM   #64 
                                   - Real democracy can never come from banning large political parties  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 08:41 PM   #68 
                                      - Hamas is as non-democratic a political org as it gets. I don't see how it's pro-democratic to elect  shira   Feb-11-11 08:44 PM   #71 
                                         - Barring them would discredit any Palestinian election.  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 08:46 PM   #74 
                                            - Voting them into power makes a mockery out of "democracy". n/t  shira   Feb-11-11 09:31 PM   #84 
                                               - Which is why I wouldn't VOTE for them.  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 09:35 PM   #86 
  - At some point, you're going to have to face reality.  Ken Burch   Feb-07-11 11:49 AM   #8 
  - A few things...  Shaktimaan   Feb-09-11 05:43 PM   #29 
     - All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others...  shaayecanaan   Feb-09-11 05:58 PM   #30 
     - Don't misunderstand.  Shaktimaan   Feb-09-11 06:39 PM   #32 
        - I doubt you would be making that speech in 1947...  shaayecanaan   Feb-09-11 07:54 PM   #33 
           - Which side would you have been on in that debate in 1947?  oberliner   Feb-10-11 05:50 PM   #36 
           - The same side I am now...  shaayecanaan   Feb-10-11 09:19 PM   #37 
              - None of those points are responsive to the question  oberliner   Feb-10-11 10:55 PM   #38 
                 - I've answered your question  shaayecanaan   Feb-10-11 11:21 PM   #39 
                    - avoided the real question...  pelsar   Feb-11-11 01:01 AM   #41 
                    - a revision of my previous do believe you answered  pelsar   Feb-11-11 02:57 AM   #42 
                    - Kudos on your description of the "idealistic progressive"  shira   Feb-11-11 05:28 PM   #57 
                       - It can't be consistent with "liberal values" to take a harder and harder line with Palestinians  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 10:09 PM   #95 
                          - It is consistent with liberal values to take a hard line against Hamas, the MB, and other fascist...  shira   Feb-11-11 10:15 PM   #98 
                             - Bullshit. A lot of people here defend the settlements.  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 10:17 PM   #99 
                                - And again you're attributing positions to me that I don't hold. Let's do a Q and A....  shira   Feb-11-11 10:19 PM   #101 
                                   - I favor the end of the Occupation, and the abandonment of all settlements.  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 10:36 PM   #102 
                                      - Me too, but I asked about the immediate end to occupation and settlements.  shira   Feb-12-11 05:38 AM   #107 
                    - Nah, you are dodging the question big time.  Shaktimaan   Feb-11-11 03:37 PM   #52 
                       - Quite obviously, the answer is no...  shaayecanaan   Feb-12-11 06:55 PM   #121 
           - why not?  Shaktimaan   Feb-11-11 02:09 PM   #44 
              - The Palestinians have as much right to self-determination as Israelis do...  Violet_Crumble   Feb-12-11 06:35 AM   #111 
              - At least I am consistent...  shaayecanaan   Feb-12-11 08:09 PM   #122 
                 - actually your not consistent...  pelsar   Feb-13-11 12:11 AM   #124 
                    - Deleted message  Name removed   Feb-13-11 02:26 AM   #125 
                       - Deleted message  Name removed   Feb-13-11 05:31 AM   #126 
     - Because rank-and-file Arab people, despite the cynicism of their leaders  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 10:07 PM   #94 
        - are you for real?...i know ideology blinds people but this is absurd...  pelsar   Feb-12-11 04:37 AM   #104 
        - They're universally for the Palestinian cause, not so much the Palestinian people.  shira   Feb-12-11 06:04 AM   #108 
  - More of this here:  bemildred   Feb-07-11 12:04 PM   #10 

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