shaayecanaan
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Thu Feb-10-11 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #38 |
| 39. I've answered your question |
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The population that lived in the "Jewish" section of Palestine under the 1947 partition was 55% Jewish and 45% Arab.
I do not believe that the 45% of Arabs had the right to impose their identity on 55% of Jews, or vice versa. Self-determination, broadly, means the right to be governed by a representative government. It does not mean that people have a right to live in an ethnocracy.
In relation to your question, I believe that the Jewish people had exactly the same rights as their Arab counterparts.
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| -Hosni Mubarak splits Israel from neocon supporters |
shira |
Feb-05-11 05:05 PM |
#0 |
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tut-tut nt |
DURHAM D |
Feb-05-11 05:14 PM |
#1 |
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And Israel should...? |
saras |
Feb-05-11 05:38 PM |
#2 |
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The good news is the Egyptians don't give a damn about the Palestinians. |
aquart |
Feb-05-11 05:42 PM |
#3 |
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"No such thing as an Israeli Neo-con" |
shira |
Feb-05-11 06:06 PM |
#4 |
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In other words |
whosinpower |
Feb-06-11 10:53 AM |
#7 |
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Real genuine liberal democracy of course, but not another Gaza 2005 "democratic" election. Why.... |
shira |
Feb-08-11 04:15 AM |
#11 |
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You don't get to choose |
whosinpower |
Feb-08-11 09:09 AM |
#12 |
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2 points...and a question for you. |
shira |
Feb-08-11 07:18 PM |
#14 |
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counter points |
whosinpower |
Feb-09-11 11:27 AM |
#28 |
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Please answer my question first - if it's the will of the people to bring about theocracy and war |
shira |
Feb-10-11 05:03 PM |
#35 |
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Again - you obscure |
whosinpower |
Feb-11-11 03:00 PM |
#45 |
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There are no indications genuine liberal democratic reform is happening in Egypt... |
shira |
Feb-11-11 03:12 PM |
#46 |
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Do you honestly think |
whosinpower |
Feb-11-11 06:07 PM |
#58 |
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No, I don't think Kach would stand a chance winning in Israel.... |
shira |
Feb-11-11 08:52 PM |
#78 |
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I'm against having those parties get elected, or gain support by OTHER means |
Ken Burch |
Feb-11-11 09:02 PM |
#80 |
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Fair enough - but realize I consider all those political parties to be openly racist, hateful... |
shira |
Feb-11-11 09:23 PM |
#82 |
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I agree that those parties SHOULDN'T be running any countries. |
Ken Burch |
Feb-11-11 09:33 PM |
#85 |
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But if those parties win and remain in power, so be it? Oh well? n/t |
shira |
Feb-13-11 05:48 AM |
#128 |
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Those parties can't be stopped by barring them from elections |
Ken Burch |
Feb-13-11 11:47 AM |
#130 |
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You can't assume that that IS the will of the people |
Ken Burch |
Feb-11-11 03:41 PM |
#53 |
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That last question is meaningless. |
Ken Burch |
Feb-11-11 03:33 PM |
#51 |
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another Gaza 2005 "democratic" election. you mean the one held |
azurnoir |
Feb-08-11 02:36 PM |
#13 |
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Why is it so difficult for YOU to comprehend |
Ken Burch |
Feb-09-11 04:33 AM |
#22 |
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Do you believe Hamas coming to power and weakening PLO rule is a good thing? |
shira |
Feb-09-11 04:40 AM |
#24 |
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It couldn't have been legitimate to forbid Hamas from coming to power after it won the election. |
Ken Burch |
Feb-09-11 04:46 AM |
#25 |
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Hamas should not have been allowed to run... |
shira |
Feb-09-11 04:57 AM |
#26 |
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Kach was a much smaller party than Hamas |
Ken Burch |
Feb-09-11 11:09 AM |
#27 |
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If only it were that easy |
whosinpower |
Feb-09-11 06:34 PM |
#31 |
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Do you believe the Nazi party should be allowed to run in any liberal democracy - as well as Kach |
shira |
Feb-10-11 04:53 PM |
#34 |
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Neo-Nazi parties are allowed to run in many liberal democracies |
LeftishBrit |
Feb-11-11 10:55 AM |
#43 |
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As bad as the BNP is, they're hardly the Nazi party. Now would you support Israel legalizing |
shira |
Feb-11-11 03:13 PM |
#47 |
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Are you ever going to let this line of questioning go? |
Ken Burch |
Feb-11-11 07:46 PM |
#61 |
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So Ken, you'd support Kach being legalized as a political party again in Israel? |
shira |
Feb-11-11 08:27 PM |
#62 |
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Why are you so OBSESSED with this question of banning parties? |
Ken Burch |
Feb-11-11 08:37 PM |
#65 |
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Thank you for answering. Now how about allowing the Nazi party to run? For or against? N/T |
shira |
Feb-11-11 08:40 PM |
#67 |
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Irrelevant. Please stop with this. |
Ken Burch |
Feb-11-11 08:43 PM |
#70 |
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I'm not equating Egyptians with Nazis, so stop with the strawman. |
shira |
Feb-11-11 08:45 PM |
#73 |
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It doesn't matter. Stop this. It's abusive |
Ken Burch |
Feb-11-11 08:47 PM |
#76 |
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If you don't want to answer questions, then stop following me around with your strawmen. n/t |
shira |
Feb-12-11 05:34 AM |
#105 |
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Implying that I "don't want to answer questions" is ITSELF a strawman. |
Ken Burch |
Feb-12-11 11:20 PM |
#123 |
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You need to look up the definition of straw man. n/t |
shira |
Feb-13-11 05:47 AM |
#127 |
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I don't accuse of you positions you don't hold |
Ken Burch |
Feb-13-11 11:45 AM |
#129 |
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you have to admit... |
Shaktimaan |
Feb-11-11 03:27 PM |
#49 |
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Which Neocons???? |
OHdem10 |
Feb-05-11 07:28 PM |
#5 |
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Neocons who are for the spread of democracy, or just electing different tyrants, in rogue regimes. |
shira |
Feb-06-11 09:33 AM |
#6 |
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Why are you so obsessed with the notion that elections in Egypt can ONLY lead |
Ken Burch |
Feb-07-11 11:51 AM |
#9 |
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Chances are like 99% that things remain about the same in Egypt or get worse... |
shira |
Feb-08-11 07:22 PM |
#15 |
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Then the best way to prevent war is to do what they want |
Ken Burch |
Feb-08-11 08:31 PM |
#16 |
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And what is it they want? What if they want more conflict with Israel, more war? |
shira |
Feb-09-11 03:47 AM |
#17 |
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Their own words and deeds. |
Ken Burch |
Feb-09-11 03:59 AM |
#18 |
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What are their words? What liberal values do they stand for? n/t |
shira |
Feb-09-11 04:11 AM |
#19 |
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Free elections and democracy. |
Ken Burch |
Feb-10-11 11:44 PM |
#40 |
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What kind of democracy? With basic civil rights, separation of powers, checks/balances, etc.? |
shira |
Feb-11-11 03:17 PM |
#48 |
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Kach values are winning in Israeli politics anyway. |
Ken Burch |
Feb-11-11 03:30 PM |
#50 |
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That's not an answer, not to mention you don't know what you're talking about |
shira |
Feb-11-11 04:15 PM |
#54 |
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You're STILL obsessed with saying Hamas shouldn't have been allowed to run |
Ken Burch |
Feb-11-11 04:33 PM |
#55 |
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Hamas is clear that they never want peace with Israel or 2 states... |
shira |
Feb-11-11 05:13 PM |
#56 |
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What is your alternative? |
Ken Burch |
Feb-11-11 07:25 PM |
#59 |
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So you're for democratically electing Hamas - an organization that once in power remains in power? |
shira |
Feb-11-11 08:30 PM |
#63 |
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It could NEVER be "pro-democracy" to ban a party from contesting elections |
Ken Burch |
Feb-11-11 08:40 PM |
#66 |
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How can it be democratic to vote a party in that will never allow itself to be voted out? n/t |
shira |
Feb-11-11 08:41 PM |
#69 |
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How can it be democratic to ban a whole party? |
Ken Burch |
Feb-11-11 08:45 PM |
#72 |
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So you believe it's democratic to vote an un-democratic party into power that will never allow |
shira |
Feb-11-11 08:47 PM |
#75 |
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I'm not supporting the ELECTION of Hamas. |
Ken Burch |
Feb-11-11 08:52 PM |
#77 |
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Another strawman as I'm not suggesting you support Hamas, only that you support... |
shira |
Feb-11-11 08:56 PM |
#79 |
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No strawman. In a post just above this, you asked me the following: |
Ken Burch |
Feb-11-11 09:09 PM |
#81 |
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Oh please, I never implied any such thing... |
shira |
Feb-11-11 09:30 PM |
#83 |
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It's not democratic to vote in a "king for life": |
Ken Burch |
Feb-11-11 09:39 PM |
#87 |
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Ken, here's the reason the choice is only between Mubarak's regime and the MB... |
shira |
Feb-11-11 09:45 PM |
#88 |
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And you've just made the case for REMOVING Mubarak. |
Ken Burch |
Feb-11-11 09:54 PM |
#89 |
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Nope. I just made the case that a secular/liberal movement won't fill the void.... |
shira |
Feb-11-11 09:59 PM |
#90 |
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In other words, you have no respect at all for what the Egyptian people just did. |
Ken Burch |
Feb-11-11 10:01 PM |
#91 |
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Yet another strawman. n/t |
shira |
Feb-11-11 10:03 PM |
#92 |
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No. I responded to the substance of what you've said. |
Ken Burch |
Feb-11-11 10:04 PM |
#93 |
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You're creating strawmen and knocking them down, Ken. Now please stop attributing positions to me.. |
shira |
Feb-11-11 10:13 PM |
#96 |
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Mubarak is no longer able to guarantee that. |
Ken Burch |
Feb-11-11 10:15 PM |
#97 |
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Right, Suleiman and the Egyptian military will guarantee that now. |
shira |
Feb-11-11 10:17 PM |
#100 |
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then let's stop playing games do you believe Arab societies as they exist today |
azurnoir |
Feb-11-11 10:53 PM |
#103 |
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Read the article in #88 and that will answer your question. n/t |
shira |
Feb-12-11 05:36 AM |
#106 |
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You were asked if you believe Arab societies as they exist today... |
Violet_Crumble |
Feb-12-11 06:18 AM |
#109 |
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Depends, Tunisia yes, Egypt no... |
shira |
Feb-12-11 06:35 AM |
#110 |
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How is it possible to know for certain that a democracy can never emerge? |
Violet_Crumble |
Feb-12-11 06:42 AM |
#112 |
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The question was whether it could emerge as things currently exist in the Arab world |
shira |
Feb-12-11 06:57 AM |
#113 |
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You said it in the post I replied to before you edited it... |
Violet_Crumble |
Feb-12-11 07:01 AM |
#114 |
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I guess you forgot to wait an hour before responding, or are you going to edit that one out now? |
shira |
Feb-12-11 07:05 AM |
#115 |
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I was being sarcastic. I didn't think you'd take it literally... |
Violet_Crumble |
Feb-12-11 07:17 AM |
#116 |
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I answered Az's question and did not make the claim you're attributing to me. |
shira |
Feb-12-11 07:21 AM |
#117 |
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You most definitely did say that Arab regimes made it so democracy can never emerge... |
Violet_Crumble |
Feb-12-11 07:30 AM |
#118 |
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if you can not answer that is fine, it is an answer in it self n/t |
azurnoir |
Feb-12-11 09:06 AM |
#119 |
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See #110. n/t |
shira |
Feb-12-11 01:36 PM |
#120 |
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Also, don't you realize the PLO is scared to death about regime change in Egypt? |
shira |
Feb-09-11 04:20 AM |
#20 |
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No you're not. |
Ken Burch |
Feb-09-11 04:27 AM |
#21 |
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Can you please answer my question first? n/t |
shira |
Feb-09-11 04:36 AM |
#23 |
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Your question is demagogic, racist and unworthy of answer. |
Ken Burch |
Feb-11-11 07:44 PM |
#60 |
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The answer is that for the sake of peace, human rights, and real democracy... |
shira |
Feb-11-11 08:34 PM |
#64 |
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Real democracy can never come from banning large political parties |
Ken Burch |
Feb-11-11 08:41 PM |
#68 |
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Hamas is as non-democratic a political org as it gets. I don't see how it's pro-democratic to elect |
shira |
Feb-11-11 08:44 PM |
#71 |
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Barring them would discredit any Palestinian election. |
Ken Burch |
Feb-11-11 08:46 PM |
#74 |
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Voting them into power makes a mockery out of "democracy". n/t |
shira |
Feb-11-11 09:31 PM |
#84 |
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Which is why I wouldn't VOTE for them. |
Ken Burch |
Feb-11-11 09:35 PM |
#86 |
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At some point, you're going to have to face reality. |
Ken Burch |
Feb-07-11 11:49 AM |
#8 |
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A few things... |
Shaktimaan |
Feb-09-11 05:43 PM |
#29 |
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All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others... |
shaayecanaan |
Feb-09-11 05:58 PM |
#30 |
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Don't misunderstand. |
Shaktimaan |
Feb-09-11 06:39 PM |
#32 |
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I doubt you would be making that speech in 1947... |
shaayecanaan |
Feb-09-11 07:54 PM |
#33 |
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Which side would you have been on in that debate in 1947? |
oberliner |
Feb-10-11 05:50 PM |
#36 |
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The same side I am now... |
shaayecanaan |
Feb-10-11 09:19 PM |
#37 |
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None of those points are responsive to the question |
oberliner |
Feb-10-11 10:55 PM |
#38 |
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I've answered your question |
shaayecanaan |
Feb-10-11 11:21 PM |
#39 |
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no...you avoided the real question... |
pelsar |
Feb-11-11 01:01 AM |
#41 |
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a revision of my previous post....you do believe you answered |
pelsar |
Feb-11-11 02:57 AM |
#42 |
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Kudos on your description of the "idealistic progressive" |
shira |
Feb-11-11 05:28 PM |
#57 |
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It can't be consistent with "liberal values" to take a harder and harder line with Palestinians |
Ken Burch |
Feb-11-11 10:09 PM |
#95 |
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It is consistent with liberal values to take a hard line against Hamas, the MB, and other fascist... |
shira |
Feb-11-11 10:15 PM |
#98 |
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Bullshit. A lot of people here defend the settlements. |
Ken Burch |
Feb-11-11 10:17 PM |
#99 |
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And again you're attributing positions to me that I don't hold. Let's do a Q and A.... |
shira |
Feb-11-11 10:19 PM |
#101 |
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I favor the end of the Occupation, and the abandonment of all settlements. |
Ken Burch |
Feb-11-11 10:36 PM |
#102 |
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Me too, but I asked about the immediate end to occupation and settlements. |
shira |
Feb-12-11 05:38 AM |
#107 |
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Nah, you are dodging the question big time. |
Shaktimaan |
Feb-11-11 03:37 PM |
#52 |
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Quite obviously, the answer is no... |
shaayecanaan |
Feb-12-11 06:55 PM |
#121 |
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why not? |
Shaktimaan |
Feb-11-11 02:09 PM |
#44 |
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The Palestinians have as much right to self-determination as Israelis do... |
Violet_Crumble |
Feb-12-11 06:35 AM |
#111 |
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At least I am consistent... |
shaayecanaan |
Feb-12-11 08:09 PM |
#122 |
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actually your not consistent... |
pelsar |
Feb-13-11 12:11 AM |
#124 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Feb-13-11 02:26 AM |
#125 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Feb-13-11 05:31 AM |
#126 |
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Because rank-and-file Arab people, despite the cynicism of their leaders |
Ken Burch |
Feb-11-11 10:07 PM |
#94 |
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are you for real?...i know ideology blinds people but this is absurd... |
pelsar |
Feb-12-11 04:37 AM |
#104 |
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They're universally for the Palestinian cause, not so much the Palestinian people. |
shira |
Feb-12-11 06:04 AM |
#108 |
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More of this here: |
bemildred |
Feb-07-11 12:04 PM |
#10 |