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Reply #70: I just realized the rhetorical trick you did. [View All]

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Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU
Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 04:35 AM
Response to Reply #67
70. I just realized the rhetorical trick you did.
Yes, Palestinians wanted greater democracy(and still do). The fact that Hamas(which didn't PROMISE greater democracy)ended up winning the PA elections does not invalidate that-NOR does it vindicate the argument that Palestinians would be freer if the PA didn't exist and they were still living with no autonomy at all.

Hamas does not prove that Palestinians are incapable of democracy.
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  -Could Syria see an uprising like Egypt's? Not likely. shira  Feb-05-11 07:15 AM   #0 
  - Report: Hizbullah fighters deployed in sensitive areas in Syria  shira   Feb-05-11 07:16 AM   #1 
  - Google Translate: Syria: a thousand Hezbollah fighters to protect the regime and punishing events  shira   Feb-05-11 07:20 AM   #2 
     - Altogether unlikely...  shaayecanaan   Feb-05-11 08:24 AM   #3 
        - Sure sounds like horseshit. nt  bemildred   Feb-05-11 10:02 AM   #6 
  - quote from "Syrias Assad talks of reform as protests loom"  shira   Feb-05-11 09:05 AM   #4 
  - Hard to say.  bemildred   Feb-05-11 10:00 AM   #5 
  - Freedom House rates Syria's human rights situation worse than Egypt's. NT  shira   Feb-05-11 12:01 PM   #9 
     - I am not defending the Syrian dictatorship.  bemildred   Feb-05-11 12:04 PM   #11 
        - I didn't say you were. NT  shira   Feb-05-11 12:15 PM   #12 
  - Egypt proved it  whosinpower   Feb-05-11 10:04 AM   #7 
  - Syria is far more brutal against protests than Egypt has shown to be. NT  shira   Feb-05-11 11:58 AM   #8 
  - It all depends on the loyalty of the military.  bemildred   Feb-05-11 12:03 PM   #10 
     - It's too bad there's no support for Syrian protestors compared to support for Egyptians. N/T  shira   Feb-05-11 03:38 PM   #13 
        - Well, that's an interesting point.  bemildred   Feb-05-11 04:40 PM   #14 
           - You might want to Google the Hama massacre  oberliner   Feb-06-11 06:15 PM   #18 
              - Don't be unpleasant, I haven't accused you of being ignorant. nt  bemildred   Feb-06-11 06:59 PM   #20 
                 - There was no unpleasantness in my post  oberliner   Feb-06-11 08:29 PM   #22 
                    - You implied I don't know about Hama.  bemildred   Feb-06-11 09:52 PM   #24 
                       - Did not know if you knew about it  oberliner   Feb-07-11 08:54 AM   #30 
  - I hope you are right!  LeftishBrit   Feb-06-11 11:15 AM   #15 
  - just dropped by for a second....  pelsar   Feb-06-11 03:00 PM   #16 
  - That was old man Assad...  shaayecanaan   Feb-06-11 06:14 PM   #17 
     - Does it remain to be seen?  oberliner   Feb-06-11 06:17 PM   #19 
     - Would you say poverty has something to do the uprising in Egypt?  azurnoir   Feb-06-11 07:59 PM   #21 
        - Absolutely  oberliner   Feb-06-11 08:31 PM   #23 
        - It depends on how you define poverty...  shaayecanaan   Feb-06-11 11:32 PM   #25 
           - again history is to be ignored...  pelsar   Feb-07-11 12:10 AM   #26 
              - He's actually an opthalmologist...  shaayecanaan   Feb-07-11 01:42 AM   #28 
                 - Don't forget the Kurds. They got gassed you know.  bemildred   Feb-07-11 07:42 AM   #29 
                 - correction on little assads past profession...  pelsar   Feb-07-11 03:21 PM   #32 
                    - In the Middle East, a liberal democracy would be too Zionist...  shira   Feb-07-11 05:33 PM   #34 
                    - 2005: Abbas triumphs in Palestinian elections  azurnoir   Feb-08-11 12:10 PM   #41 
                       - 2005 : Big Hamas win in Gaza's election  oberliner   Feb-08-11 04:04 PM   #44 
                       - that is indeed 'odd':Washington Post Foreign Service Friday, January 27, 2006  azurnoir   Feb-08-11 04:26 PM   #45 
                       - The Guardian, 29 January 2005: Hamas wins Gaza Strip council vote  oberliner   Feb-08-11 09:17 PM   #51 
                          - the Gaza Council was an occupation government , elections were held again a year later when the PA  azurnoir   Feb-09-11 02:37 AM   #58 
                             - An occupation government?  oberliner   Feb-10-11 08:23 AM   #92 
                       - weren't those elections held while Gaza was under total Israeli occupation ?  azurnoir   Feb-08-11 04:31 PM   #46 
                          - "Thousands of Hamas supporters took to the streets of Gaza yesterday to celebrate the victory"  oberliner   Feb-08-11 09:19 PM   #52 
                             - then why were elections held a year later?They were the Gaza Council elections not the PA elections  azurnoir   Feb-09-11 02:35 AM   #57 
                             - Once again you seem to fail to recognize that Israel was in total control and occupation of Gaza  azurnoir   Feb-09-11 02:59 AM   #60 
                                - Total control of Gaza ended with Oslo II in 1995  oberliner   Feb-10-11 06:44 AM   #90 
                       - elections do not define a democracy...  pelsar   Feb-09-11 02:08 AM   #56 
                          - yes much like Israel we're constantly lead to believe that Kadima should  azurnoir   Feb-09-11 02:42 AM   #59 
                             - confused?  pelsar   Feb-09-11 03:23 AM   #61 
                             - South Africa was also a democacy during apartheid  azurnoir   Feb-09-11 08:34 AM   #75 
                                - same confusion.....  pelsar   Feb-09-11 09:06 AM   #76 
                                   - no 'confusion' what so ever at the moment there is no single value at work in Egypt  azurnoir   Feb-09-11 09:31 AM   #77 
                                   - too bad..wrong again  pelsar   Feb-09-11 02:13 PM   #80 
                                      - apparently sarcasm is lost on you my point is that Israel is not afraid  azurnoir   Feb-09-11 03:13 PM   #81 
                                         - no we're not afraid  pelsar   Feb-10-11 12:54 AM   #89 
                                         - well there are some here that at least until very recently pumping the idea  azurnoir   Feb-10-11 12:24 PM   #94 
                                         - then prices go up...as they have been recently  pelsar   Feb-10-11 03:03 PM   #95 
                                   - Israel clearly "neglects" civil rights for its citizens. Does that negate its status as a democracy  ProgressiveMuslim   Feb-11-11 05:43 AM   #101 
                                      - which citizens?  pelsar   Feb-11-11 09:25 AM   #102 
                                         - Deleted message  Name removed   Feb-11-11 09:53 AM   #103 
                                            - i would agree that i am a cultural elitist....  pelsar   Feb-11-11 11:36 AM   #106 
                             - Then again, Kadima is ALSO essentially a right-wing party.  Ken Burch   Feb-09-11 03:30 AM   #62 
                                - And the USA is more rightwing than Israel while Egypt has no leftwing. So...? n/t  shira   Feb-09-11 03:42 AM   #63 
                                - Egypt has a huge leftwing...it's part of the democratic revolution that's overthrowing Mubarak  Ken Burch   Feb-09-11 03:45 AM   #64 
                                   - Okay, what is their political agenda? What exactly do they stand for? Be specific please. n/t  shira   Feb-09-11 04:08 AM   #65 
                                      - Here is a list of their demands, as quoted by the Associated Press  Ken Burch   Feb-09-11 04:12 AM   #66 
                                         - Doesn't sound any different than what Palestinians wanted 5 years ago, and received with Hamas.  shira   Feb-09-11 04:16 AM   #67 
                                            - Why should I bother with this exchange?  Ken Burch   Feb-09-11 04:25 AM   #68 
                                            - So you're behind an Egyptian political movement that you hope isn't as grossly rightwing as Mubarak  shira   Feb-09-11 04:30 AM   #69 
                                            - You know perfectly well that the revolt against Mubarak is not a call for sharia  Ken Burch   Feb-09-11 04:38 AM   #71 
                                            - So if worse comes to power after Mubarak, it's the will of the people and so be it - right Ken?  shira   Feb-09-11 04:59 AM   #73 
                                            - You can't keep Egypt a one-party state for decades to come.  Ken Burch   Feb-09-11 10:56 AM   #78 
                                            - So you're for the will of the people if they vote for theocracy and more conflict vs. Israel? n/t  shira   Feb-10-11 04:59 PM   #96 
                                            - You can't reduce the question to that  Ken Burch   Feb-10-11 11:18 PM   #98 
                                            - Do you believe Kach should be able to run in Israel or the Nazi party in any western democracy?  shira   Feb-11-11 04:13 AM   #100 
                                            - It is NEVER that simple-stop repeating a meaningless question.  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 10:42 AM   #104 
                                            - You're avoiding the question. Here's another: How is Kach worse than the Muslim Brotherhood?  shira   Feb-11-11 04:23 PM   #107 
                                            - The question is irrelevant  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 07:41 PM   #110 
                                            - No it's not - and electing a Hamas or MB into power, when such an organization will never allow...  shira   Feb-11-11 08:38 PM   #111 
                                            - I just realized the rhetorical trick you did.  Ken Burch   Feb-09-11 04:35 AM   #70 
                                            - It was no trick, it was a routine Zionist plot.  shira   Feb-11-11 04:47 PM   #109 
                                - so?....it has right wing coalition...  pelsar   Feb-09-11 05:19 AM   #74 
                                - I accept that the Israeli electorate has the right to make its choices  Ken Burch   Feb-09-11 04:21 PM   #84 
                                - Kind of an oversimplification.  Shaktimaan   Feb-09-11 03:26 PM   #82 
                                - I didn't attribute the entirety of Kadima's creation to racism  Ken Burch   Feb-09-11 04:20 PM   #83 
                                   - Okay...  Shaktimaan   Feb-09-11 05:06 PM   #85 
                                      - He was defeated by Amir Peretz  Ken Burch   Feb-09-11 05:32 PM   #86 
                                         - Your view is a little outdated in my opinion.  Shaktimaan   Feb-09-11 06:28 PM   #88 
                                - "which didn't fail to slaughter thousands of innocent Lebanese civilians"  oberliner   Feb-10-11 06:55 AM   #91 
                                   - Deleted message  Name removed   Feb-10-11 10:48 AM   #93 
                    - Agreed  shaayecanaan   Feb-07-11 06:29 PM   #35 
                       - There is not a "democratic process in Iran which is generally meaningful"  oberliner   Feb-08-11 11:10 AM   #39 
                          - There have been six presidents of Iran since 1980...  shaayecanaan   Feb-08-11 06:21 PM   #47 
                             - Three of those six presidents were elected with over 90 percent of the vote  oberliner   Feb-08-11 06:55 PM   #48 
                                - Perhaps in some cases its because they were the best candidate...  shaayecanaan   Feb-08-11 08:15 PM   #49 
                                   - The "independent human rights activist called Banisdar" was impeached in a year  oberliner   Feb-08-11 09:12 PM   #50 
                                      - You previously implied that Banisadr was illegitimate  shaayecanaan   Feb-08-11 10:04 PM   #53 
                                         - You keep ignoring the presence of the Supreme Leader in each of your posts  oberliner   Feb-08-11 10:29 PM   #54 
                                            - Deeply flawed, extremely flawed, very flawed  shaayecanaan   Feb-09-11 12:03 AM   #55 
                                               - No response, eh?  shaayecanaan   Feb-09-11 06:04 PM   #87 
     - and with the son...  pelsar   Feb-07-11 12:12 AM   #27 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Feb-07-11 11:41 AM   #31 
  - Democratically electing another dictator/tyrant for life sucks, don't you think?  shira   Feb-07-11 05:12 PM   #33 
     - A "genuine liberal democracy" can NEVER be created  Ken Burch   Feb-07-11 11:34 PM   #36 
        - It wasn't created by replacing the Czar w/ Stalin, the Shah w/ Khomeini or the PA w/Hamas....  shira   Feb-08-11 04:49 AM   #37 
           - The Tsar WASN'T replaced by Stalin-Stalin came along later.  Ken Burch   Feb-08-11 05:35 AM   #38 
           - Ah - but who installed the Shah?  whosinpower   Feb-08-11 11:46 AM   #40 
           - wasn't the CIA instrumental in installing the Shah's artificial monarchy?  azurnoir   Feb-08-11 12:22 PM   #42 
           - yes  whosinpower   Feb-08-11 12:44 PM   #43 
           - Mussadegh's major crime was nationalizing the oil, which was controlled by the soon-to-be-extinct  Ken Burch   Feb-09-11 04:54 AM   #72 
           - The US assisted Iran in replacing Mossadegh - so an overthrow was most likely inevitable  shira   Feb-10-11 05:01 PM   #97 
              - Nobody in Iran WANTED Mossadegh overthrown  Ken Burch   Feb-10-11 11:19 PM   #99 
           - What about the 1989-90 revolts in Eastern Europe?  LeftishBrit   Feb-11-11 11:09 AM   #105 
              - Ideology vs. Empirical evidence and rational reasoning  shira   Feb-11-11 04:32 PM   #108 
                 - What indicators are you talking about?  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 08:50 PM   #112 
                    - And yet another strawman, as I've never indicated the protests are a MB conspiracy.  shira   Feb-11-11 10:07 PM   #113 
                       - No, that is NOT a certainty.  Ken Burch   Feb-11-11 10:11 PM   #114 
                          - It's not a certainy because you have blind faith a strong secular/liberal party will emerge.  shira   Feb-12-11 05:45 AM   #115 
  - Syria: 'A kingdom of silence'  bemildred   Feb-09-11 12:32 PM   #79 
 

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