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Reply #39: I'll answer you, but will you answer my questions too? [View All]

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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-10 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. I'll answer you, but will you answer my questions too?
Edited on Thu Nov-25-10 07:50 AM by shira
There seems to be a belief on the other side of the aisle that any action by Israel to kill or capture Palestinian militiamen is legitimate as long as Israel makes some kind of effort to avoid civilian casualties.

It's not that Israel makes some kind of effort to avoid civilian casualties. Colonel Kemp says Israel is more careful WRT civilians than any other military in the history of warfare. So while not perfect, Israel still does better than other civilized nations WRT civilians.

On the other hand, Palestinians are not allowed to kill or capture Israeli soldiers, or apparently (according to a recent article) even clear and cultivate Palestinian land with olive trees in a way that Israeli settlers would find objectionable.

It's not Palestinians who are not allowed to kill/capture Israeli soldiers but groups recognized as terror organizations by the International community who don't get to do this.

Gush Etzion isn't necessarily Palestinian land. Jimmy Carter recently said this would remain a part of Israel after a peace deal. The 1949 armistice lines are not borders. Here's some history on Gush Etzion...

The same logic seems to apply to Lebanon. For some reason, the pro-Israel people seem to think it is beyond the pale for Hezbollah to kill Israeli soldiers whilst they are on Lebanese soil (as was the case in 2006).

Hezbollah is a terror organization and they're occupying Lebanon with the help of Iran and Syria. They have no business acting as legitimate Lebanese resistance.

I have no idea why you don't think "the rules of the game" apply to Hezbollah - why you don't see them as an illegal, extremely Rightwing theocratic occupying force imposed on the people of Lebanon by Syria and Iran. Apparently, they killed Hariri. What's with you and Alamuti Lotus being "cool" with Hezbollah, not minding how they re-arm, attempt to push their extreme religious views on others, use the Lebanese population as unwilling shields, etc...? They're basically the antithesis of all that is considered Liberal. I find your attitude WRT Hezbollah questionable considering your views on Kahanist and Likudnik extremists.
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  -Hamas: Resistance our legitimate right oberliner  Nov-21-10 05:32 AM   #0 
  - Better that millions suffer  Turbineguy   Nov-21-10 05:52 AM   #1 
  - Peace puts Hamas out of business  oberliner   Nov-21-10 06:33 AM   #2 
     - Usually? Become the natural party of government, and often make a mess of it. N.T.  Donald Ian Rankin   Nov-21-10 12:22 PM   #3 
        - Do you see that happening in this case?  oberliner   Nov-21-10 12:27 PM   #4 
           - Seems as if HAMAS is also...  hayu_lol   Nov-21-10 12:34 PM   #5 
           - I'm much less well-up on Palestinian than Israeli politics, because I'm monolingual.  Donald Ian Rankin   Nov-21-10 12:41 PM   #6 
              - Lots of articles available in English on Palestinian politics  oberliner   Nov-21-10 12:43 PM   #7 
                 - Articles about, yes, but not so much the news sources the people read.  Donald Ian Rankin   Nov-21-10 12:57 PM   #8 
                    - The sources you lsited are not news sources that people read in Israel  oberliner   Nov-21-10 01:10 PM   #9 
                       - Yedioth Ahronot is the most widely-circulated paper in Israel.  Donald Ian Rankin   Nov-21-10 06:18 PM   #10 
                       - The hebrew editions are different than the english, geared to 2 different audiences. n/t  shira   Nov-21-10 07:24 PM   #12 
                       - Yes, it's in Hebrew  oberliner   Nov-21-10 09:05 PM   #13 
                       - Thanks for injecting reality into the discussion again.  arcticken   Nov-21-10 06:51 PM   #11 
  - It is, but not against civilians.  Donald Ian Rankin   Nov-22-10 12:35 PM   #14 
  - And also not by using the Palestinian population as their shield.  shira   Nov-22-10 05:09 PM   #15 
  - Yeah, who do they think they are, the IDF??  Tripmann   Nov-23-10 08:48 AM   #17 
     - "Look over there!"  shira   Nov-23-10 06:01 PM   #20 
        - that's right the IDF is quite keen on taking a page from Bushes play book  azurnoir   Nov-23-10 06:22 PM   #21 
        - Really? Since when did Bush allow thousands of rockets to hit the US mainland years before...  shira   Nov-23-10 06:26 PM   #22 
           - Bush did not however it should be noted that IDF brings the war to the Palestinians  azurnoir   Nov-23-10 06:31 PM   #23 
              - Wow, human shield charges vs. Hamas are questionable? That's not what B'tselem, BTS, Meretz...say.  shira   Nov-23-10 06:45 PM   #24 
                 - Strenger found Israel's retalition in those cases reprehensible  azurnoir   Nov-23-10 07:33 PM   #25 
                    - Strenger still realizes the impossible situation Israel is in WRT Hamas human shielding...  shira   Nov-24-10 12:34 PM   #30 
                       - so you feel that Israel had no other choices?  azurnoir   Nov-26-10 12:32 PM   #43 
        - Howcome you don't mention Goldstones 'lies' about the IDF using human shields anymore??  Tripmann   Nov-24-10 04:34 AM   #26 
           - I didn't say Goldstone lied WRT the IDF using shields, but....  shira   Nov-24-10 12:32 PM   #29 
              - Yes,amazing how what Goldstone lied about changes depending on new info vindicating him, isn't it??  Tripmann   Nov-24-10 01:35 PM   #31 
                 - Find where I said Goldstone lied about the IDF using human shields. I don't recall ever...  shira   Nov-24-10 04:55 PM   #35 
                    - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Nov-24-10 05:45 PM   #37 
  - So you think they have a right to kill Gilad Shalit?  oberliner   Nov-23-10 03:27 PM   #18 
     - "No" and "Mostly", respectively.  Donald Ian Rankin   Nov-23-10 05:57 PM   #19 
        - "I think that they had every right to capture him, and to keep him prisoner."  oberliner   Nov-24-10 10:41 AM   #27 
        - No, I don't.  Donald Ian Rankin   Nov-24-10 04:42 PM   #32 
        - You don't think that those who fought to repel the US/UK invasion of Iraq had a legitimate cause?  oberliner   Nov-24-10 04:49 PM   #34 
           - No, I think that only governments with a democratic mandate can legitimately use force.  Donald Ian Rankin   Nov-24-10 04:57 PM   #36 
        - Perhaps this would be a good time to clarify...  shaayecanaan   Nov-25-10 12:15 AM   #38 
           - I'll answer you, but will you answer my questions too?  shira   Nov-25-10 07:31 AM   #39 
              - I must confess I was probably more interested in Oberliner's views  shaayecanaan   Nov-25-10 09:38 PM   #40 
                 - I never claimed Hezbollah were foreign occupiers, but they are fully backed by Iran & Syria...  shira   Nov-26-10 07:23 AM   #41 
                    - Some posters obviously like and support  arcticken   Nov-26-10 11:16 AM   #42 
                    - The Red Army represented the antithesis of everything liberal...  shaayecanaan   Nov-27-10 06:51 AM   #44 
                       - Do you believe that with Hezbollah gone, Israel would invade Lebanon again...  shira   Nov-27-10 08:19 AM   #45 
                          - I certainly think that there's a good chance of it...  shaayecanaan   Nov-28-10 05:50 PM   #46 
                             - Syria/Hezbollah murdered Hariri and still rule his son, Jumblatt, etc... by fear and intimidation.  shira   Nov-29-10 04:51 AM   #47 
                                - Probably...  shaayecanaan   Nov-29-10 07:33 AM   #48 
        - Do you feel the same about any soldier - that they are 'not innocent victims'?  LeftishBrit   Nov-24-10 12:00 PM   #28 
           - In one of the two ways.  Donald Ian Rankin   Nov-24-10 04:47 PM   #33 
  - Random violence against civilians is not 'resistance'.  LeftishBrit   Nov-23-10 06:38 AM   #16 

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