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Reply #25: Strenger found Israel's retalition in those cases reprehensible [View All]

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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-10 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Strenger found Israel's retalition in those cases reprehensible
Then there are those of us who feel that the price for being a civilised state is that you cannot fire at schools, even if an inhuman enemy fires from within. We feel that the ground incursion should have been avoided because we believe that the inhumanity of your enemy must not dictate your own deeds. No one can help but be horrified by the pictures of killed, maimed and terrified Palestinian children. And even though we despise an enemy that is not bound by any rules of recognisable civilisation, we must not let them dictate the terms of engagement.

Along with many other Israelis, I am enraged and disappointed by Israel's failure to restrict the use of force according to basic humanitarian values, and by its insufficient use of international help. We feel that Israel should have defined attainable objectives, such as a more durable ceasefire under international auspices and enforcement, and that this could have been achieved after the first few days of air strikes. And we feel horrified by the human price of the escalation of the ground incursion.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/09/uni...
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  -Hamas: Resistance our legitimate right oberliner  Nov-21-10 05:32 AM   #0 
  - Better that millions suffer  Turbineguy   Nov-21-10 05:52 AM   #1 
  - Peace puts Hamas out of business  oberliner   Nov-21-10 06:33 AM   #2 
     - Usually? Become the natural party of government, and often make a mess of it. N.T.  Donald Ian Rankin   Nov-21-10 12:22 PM   #3 
        - Do you see that happening in this case?  oberliner   Nov-21-10 12:27 PM   #4 
           - Seems as if HAMAS is also...  hayu_lol   Nov-21-10 12:34 PM   #5 
           - I'm much less well-up on Palestinian than Israeli politics, because I'm monolingual.  Donald Ian Rankin   Nov-21-10 12:41 PM   #6 
              - Lots of articles available in English on Palestinian politics  oberliner   Nov-21-10 12:43 PM   #7 
                 - Articles about, yes, but not so much the news sources the people read.  Donald Ian Rankin   Nov-21-10 12:57 PM   #8 
                    - The sources you lsited are not news sources that people read in Israel  oberliner   Nov-21-10 01:10 PM   #9 
                       - Yedioth Ahronot is the most widely-circulated paper in Israel.  Donald Ian Rankin   Nov-21-10 06:18 PM   #10 
                       - The hebrew editions are different than the english, geared to 2 different audiences. n/t  shira   Nov-21-10 07:24 PM   #12 
                       - Yes, it's in Hebrew  oberliner   Nov-21-10 09:05 PM   #13 
                       - Thanks for injecting reality into the discussion again.  arcticken   Nov-21-10 06:51 PM   #11 
  - It is, but not against civilians.  Donald Ian Rankin   Nov-22-10 12:35 PM   #14 
  - And also not by using the Palestinian population as their shield.  shira   Nov-22-10 05:09 PM   #15 
  - Yeah, who do they think they are, the IDF??  Tripmann   Nov-23-10 08:48 AM   #17 
     - "Look over there!"  shira   Nov-23-10 06:01 PM   #20 
        - that's right the IDF is quite keen on taking a page from Bushes play book  azurnoir   Nov-23-10 06:22 PM   #21 
        - Really? Since when did Bush allow thousands of rockets to hit the US mainland years before...  shira   Nov-23-10 06:26 PM   #22 
           - Bush did not however it should be noted that IDF brings the war to the Palestinians  azurnoir   Nov-23-10 06:31 PM   #23 
              - Wow, human shield charges vs. Hamas are questionable? That's not what B'tselem, BTS, Meretz...say.  shira   Nov-23-10 06:45 PM   #24 
                 - Strenger found Israel's retalition in those cases reprehensible  azurnoir   Nov-23-10 07:33 PM   #25 
                    - Strenger still realizes the impossible situation Israel is in WRT Hamas human shielding...  shira   Nov-24-10 12:34 PM   #30 
                       - so you feel that Israel had no other choices?  azurnoir   Nov-26-10 12:32 PM   #43 
        - Howcome you don't mention Goldstones 'lies' about the IDF using human shields anymore??  Tripmann   Nov-24-10 04:34 AM   #26 
           - I didn't say Goldstone lied WRT the IDF using shields, but....  shira   Nov-24-10 12:32 PM   #29 
              - Yes,amazing how what Goldstone lied about changes depending on new info vindicating him, isn't it??  Tripmann   Nov-24-10 01:35 PM   #31 
                 - Find where I said Goldstone lied about the IDF using human shields. I don't recall ever...  shira   Nov-24-10 04:55 PM   #35 
                    - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Nov-24-10 05:45 PM   #37 
  - So you think they have a right to kill Gilad Shalit?  oberliner   Nov-23-10 03:27 PM   #18 
     - "No" and "Mostly", respectively.  Donald Ian Rankin   Nov-23-10 05:57 PM   #19 
        - "I think that they had every right to capture him, and to keep him prisoner."  oberliner   Nov-24-10 10:41 AM   #27 
        - No, I don't.  Donald Ian Rankin   Nov-24-10 04:42 PM   #32 
        - You don't think that those who fought to repel the US/UK invasion of Iraq had a legitimate cause?  oberliner   Nov-24-10 04:49 PM   #34 
           - No, I think that only governments with a democratic mandate can legitimately use force.  Donald Ian Rankin   Nov-24-10 04:57 PM   #36 
        - Perhaps this would be a good time to clarify...  shaayecanaan   Nov-25-10 12:15 AM   #38 
           - I'll answer you, but will you answer my questions too?  shira   Nov-25-10 07:31 AM   #39 
              - I must confess I was probably more interested in Oberliner's views  shaayecanaan   Nov-25-10 09:38 PM   #40 
                 - I never claimed Hezbollah were foreign occupiers, but they are fully backed by Iran & Syria...  shira   Nov-26-10 07:23 AM   #41 
                    - Some posters obviously like and support  arcticken   Nov-26-10 11:16 AM   #42 
                    - The Red Army represented the antithesis of everything liberal...  shaayecanaan   Nov-27-10 06:51 AM   #44 
                       - Do you believe that with Hezbollah gone, Israel would invade Lebanon again...  shira   Nov-27-10 08:19 AM   #45 
                          - I certainly think that there's a good chance of it...  shaayecanaan   Nov-28-10 05:50 PM   #46 
                             - Syria/Hezbollah murdered Hariri and still rule his son, Jumblatt, etc... by fear and intimidation.  shira   Nov-29-10 04:51 AM   #47 
                                - Probably...  shaayecanaan   Nov-29-10 07:33 AM   #48 
        - Do you feel the same about any soldier - that they are 'not innocent victims'?  LeftishBrit   Nov-24-10 12:00 PM   #28 
           - In one of the two ways.  Donald Ian Rankin   Nov-24-10 04:47 PM   #33 
  - Random violence against civilians is not 'resistance'.  LeftishBrit   Nov-23-10 06:38 AM   #16 
 

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