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Reply #85: Well, I don't entirely buy the Hamas/Vanity Fair version of what happened [View All]

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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #84
85. Well, I don't entirely buy the Hamas/Vanity Fair version of what happened
Just as I am sure there are some people out there who don't entirely buy the Israeli version of what happened in the lead up to the Six-Day War.
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  -Hamas official: Israeli settlers are a legitimate military target oberliner  Sep-04-10 09:47 AM   #0 
  - How about this pregnant woman they targeted? Was she a legit target?  USArmyParatrooper   Sep-04-10 10:11 AM   #1 
  - When I was pregnant I studiously avoided placing myself  Crunchy Frog   Sep-07-10 10:04 PM   #93 
  - I note from the article(link)that HAMAS fired...  hayu_lol   Sep-04-10 10:17 AM   #2 
  - First of all...  parkia00   Sep-04-10 11:25 AM   #5 
  - They are sounding desperate  whosinpower   Sep-04-10 10:36 AM   #3 
  - As long as Hamas is in charge there will be no peace  sellitman   Sep-04-10 10:57 AM   #4 
  - HAMAS was elected...  hayu_lol   Sep-04-10 06:25 PM   #6 
  - Hamas self-appointed themselves rulers of Gaza....they were never elected for that role.  shira   Sep-04-10 06:31 PM   #7 
  - Their role in Gaza was determined by AK-47, not the ballot  ProgressiveProfessor   Sep-05-10 10:48 AM   #13 
  - But they did win the election  Recursion   Sep-06-10 04:09 PM   #39 
  - So? The PA was in charge of security and had every right to disarm Hamas. n/t  shira   Sep-06-10 06:09 PM   #60 
  - Not quite correct  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 04:18 PM   #43 
     - No, Hamas winning parliamentary majority doesn't give them the right to rule militarily. n/t  shira   Sep-06-10 06:10 PM   #61 
     - That has fuck all to do with anything I said, I'm afraid  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 06:25 PM   #65 
        - Actually it does. Even if Hamas loses in elections, they will continue to rule Gaza by gun....  shira   Sep-06-10 06:58 PM   #68 
           - They very well might do that. And I'm worried that they will  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 11:33 PM   #77 
              - My response....  shira   Sep-07-10 05:19 AM   #79 
                 - Well, let's hope we're both pleasantly surprised n/t  Chulanowa   Sep-08-10 01:20 PM   #95 
     - You seriously believe that Fatah staged a violent coup attempt?  oberliner   Sep-06-10 08:10 PM   #71 
     - So it was like the 6 day war  Recursion   Sep-07-10 08:22 AM   #84 
        - Well, I don't entirely buy the Hamas/Vanity Fair version of what happened  oberliner   Sep-07-10 10:20 AM   #85 
     - They remain in power because the US, Israel and Fatah don't want elections.  ProgressiveMuslim   Sep-13-10 01:15 PM   #108 
  - Hamas is the reason Gaza suffers.  sellitman   Sep-05-10 10:31 PM   #14 
     - Channeling Madeline Albright, are we? n/t  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 04:28 PM   #44 
  - Actually, Hamas has indicated a willingness to consider a two-state approach  Ken Burch   Sep-04-10 06:35 PM   #9 
     - Hamas has called for a limited ceasefire based on 2 states with full RoR. n/t  shira   Sep-04-10 06:37 PM   #10 
     - Oh the HORROR!!!! 2 states with R-o-R!!!! OMG!!!  ProgressiveMuslim   Sep-13-10 01:16 PM   #109 
     - Hamas has only claimed they want total destruction of the Zionist State  sellitman   Sep-05-10 10:43 PM   #15 
  - I oppose what Hamas did to these people....  Ken Burch   Sep-04-10 06:32 PM   #8 
  - You should have stopped before  issy98   Sep-06-10 03:39 PM   #27 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-06-10 03:45 PM   #29 
  - Human shields are always morally problematic  Recursion   Sep-06-10 03:55 PM   #33 
     - "Human-shield". You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. n/t  shira   Sep-06-10 04:05 PM   #35 
     - It means exactly what I'm saying it means  Recursion   Sep-06-10 04:08 PM   #37 
     - Wouldn't all Israelis be "human sheilds" by that definition?  oberliner   Sep-06-10 05:14 PM   #51 
        - Only for the "into the sea" crowd  Recursion   Sep-06-10 05:17 PM   #52 
        - I don't agree with your analysis here  oberliner   Sep-06-10 05:19 PM   #54 
        - Apparently all Palestinians are...  shaayecanaan   Sep-06-10 10:44 PM   #73 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-06-10 11:36 PM   #78 
           - except that it is very real.  Shaktimaan   Sep-11-10 05:10 AM   #104 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-06-10 04:16 PM   #42 
     - Let's be clear: the 1.3 million in Gaza weren't "put there" by Palestinian  ProgressiveMuslim   Sep-13-10 01:19 PM   #110 
  - Why is it so important to have people say  Ken Burch   Sep-06-10 05:04 PM   #50 
  - self-delete. n/t  shira   Sep-06-10 03:43 PM   #28 
  - I don't think Hamas is right, but  Crunchy Frog   Sep-04-10 07:28 PM   #11 
  - No need to wonder, we know what has happened to  Dick Dastardly   Sep-04-10 11:20 PM   #12 
     - You make some bad arguments  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 03:53 PM   #31 
     - So you consider Arab Israelis to be the settlers  shaayecanaan   Sep-06-10 10:45 PM   #74 
  - And?  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 12:33 AM   #16 
  - let's follow your analogy more...  Shaktimaan   Sep-06-10 03:55 AM   #17 
  - Are you really asking this?  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 02:29 PM   #21 
     - Some of that property over the 1949 armistice line was Jewish owned prior to 1949. That's why...  shira   Sep-06-10 03:49 PM   #30 
     - well, that's an interesting stance for you to take, Shira.  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 04:15 PM   #41 
        - What part of disputed land don't you understand? n/t  shira   Sep-06-10 06:11 PM   #62 
           - I understand it just fine  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 06:28 PM   #66 
     - why?  Shaktimaan   Sep-10-10 01:25 AM   #100 
        - The problem with your position is simple  Chulanowa   Sep-10-10 01:46 PM   #101 
           - That isn't what I am saying at all.  Shaktimaan   Sep-11-10 02:20 AM   #102 
  - Do you agree with Hamas that Israeli settlers are legitimate targets for killing then?  oberliner   Sep-06-10 05:50 AM   #18 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-06-10 02:26 PM   #20 
     - Stunning response  oberliner   Sep-06-10 03:01 PM   #24 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-06-10 03:26 PM   #25 
        - I don't have a "team" and I do not support the killing of civilians ever by anyone  oberliner   Sep-06-10 03:32 PM   #26 
        - Don't give me the feigned innocence shit, Oberliner  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 04:08 PM   #38 
           - No idea what you mean by that comment  oberliner   Sep-06-10 04:34 PM   #45 
           - Well, that's great  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 04:57 PM   #47 
           - West Bank Violence: Hamas must prevent further attacks on Israeli citizens  oberliner   Sep-06-10 05:02 PM   #49 
              - Again with the platitudes  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 05:39 PM   #57 
                 - If the Israeli settlers will not leave voluntarily then Palestinians have the right to kill them?  oberliner   Sep-06-10 06:00 PM   #58 
                    - Not quite sp  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 06:24 PM   #64 
                       - Human Rights Watch: Attacking civilians is never justified  oberliner   Sep-06-10 07:26 PM   #70 
                       - You seem unable to answer the question  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 11:03 PM   #75 
                          - Simple - well not so simple but here's what they should do for peace...  shira   Sep-07-10 05:25 AM   #80 
                          - You're right. That's not even remotely simple  Chulanowa   Sep-09-10 01:54 AM   #97 
                          - You are right...  Shaktimaan   Sep-11-10 11:22 AM   #105 
                       - There is another option  whosinpower   Sep-07-10 06:10 PM   #92 
           - I found lots showing disdain for the killing of Israeli civilians, but when it comes to Palestinians  Violet_Crumble   Sep-11-10 11:57 PM   #106 
           - What does stolen/stealing mean?  Cannafield   Sep-07-10 07:40 AM   #82 
        - Chuli - do you have a problem with the PA and Hamas inciting Palestinians to murder settlers?  shira   Sep-06-10 03:54 PM   #32 
           - Something needs to be done to make the settlements costly enough for Israel to abandon them  Recursion   Sep-06-10 03:59 PM   #34 
           - If you've seen pictures of the highlands in Jerusalem, you'd know that Palestinians are doing...  shira   Sep-06-10 04:07 PM   #36 
              - Yes people tend to forget that Israel stilll needs and  issy98   Sep-06-10 06:05 PM   #59 
           - Israel awards terrorists with state funerals and makes them Prime Ministers  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 04:13 PM   #40 
              - "Israel awards terrorists with state funerals and makes them Prime Ministers"...well...  Ken Burch   Sep-06-10 05:30 PM   #56 
              - Why didn't you answer whether Hamas/PLO disgusts you? n/t  shira   Sep-06-10 06:12 PM   #63 
                 - Allow me to explain to you, via anecdote  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 06:34 PM   #67 
                    - I can only assume none of that disgusts you as you've never once articulated that...  shira   Sep-06-10 07:08 PM   #69 
                       - Well, I've given it a little more thought  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 11:19 PM   #76 
                          - To be clear...  shira   Sep-07-10 05:31 AM   #81 
                             - I think I've already answered your question  Chulanowa   Sep-09-10 02:13 AM   #98 
        - Scary such posters exist here.  issy98   Sep-06-10 04:45 PM   #46 
           - Years of watching the gentlemen across the aisle cheer for the deaths of Arabs  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 04:59 PM   #48 
              - Strange.  LTX   Sep-08-10 08:34 AM   #94 
                 - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-09-10 02:18 AM   #99 
  - Your fallacy is in assuming that property lines and ownership are established  elias7   Sep-06-10 09:58 AM   #19 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-06-10 02:36 PM   #22 
  - Well said! Also, the Settlers poison wells and kill Palistineans...  ProgressiveMajority   Sep-13-10 01:46 PM   #111 
  - I think "human shield" is a better term  Recursion   Sep-06-10 02:37 PM   #23 
  - What was the actual target in this case that these humans were shielding?  oberliner   Sep-06-10 05:18 PM   #53 
     - I could slime out of this and say "the actual target was Israel's sense of collective security"  Recursion   Sep-06-10 05:21 PM   #55 
        - With respect to your edit  oberliner   Sep-06-10 08:40 PM   #72 
           - Attacking soldiers vs. civilians  Recursion   Sep-07-10 08:19 AM   #83 
              - Did these particular settelers attack Palestinians and their property?  oberliner   Sep-07-10 10:30 AM   #86 
                 - How were the shooters supposed to know?  Recursion   Sep-07-10 10:41 AM   #87 
                    - They don't know - which is why they shouldn't kill them  oberliner   Sep-07-10 11:43 AM   #88 
                       - That was a separate argument  Recursion   Sep-07-10 11:48 AM   #89 
                          - That justfication can be used for just about anyone to kill anyone else  oberliner   Sep-07-10 11:55 AM   #90 
                          - Civilians die in war. Always.  Recursion   Sep-07-10 12:05 PM   #91 
                          - But was this why these people were shot?  Shaktimaan   Sep-11-10 02:53 AM   #103 
                          - There's no confusion about these settlers...they were ones from Hebron...  Violet_Crumble   Sep-12-10 12:00 AM   #107 
                          - That's not how human shields work.  Shaktimaan   Sep-18-10 02:22 AM   #112 
  - That doesn't justify murdering them, though.  Donald Ian Rankin   Sep-08-10 01:30 PM   #96 

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