You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Reply #33: Human shields are always morally problematic [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU
Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Human shields are always morally problematic
Whether they're settlers or civilians in Gaza: politicians put them there to make it politically costly for the enemy to prosecute a war.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
  -Hamas official: Israeli settlers are a legitimate military target oberliner  Sep-04-10 09:47 AM   #0 
  - How about this pregnant woman they targeted? Was she a legit target?  USArmyParatrooper   Sep-04-10 10:11 AM   #1 
  - When I was pregnant I studiously avoided placing myself  Crunchy Frog   Sep-07-10 10:04 PM   #93 
  - I note from the article(link)that HAMAS fired...  hayu_lol   Sep-04-10 10:17 AM   #2 
  - First of all...  parkia00   Sep-04-10 11:25 AM   #5 
  - They are sounding desperate  whosinpower   Sep-04-10 10:36 AM   #3 
  - As long as Hamas is in charge there will be no peace  sellitman   Sep-04-10 10:57 AM   #4 
  - HAMAS was elected...  hayu_lol   Sep-04-10 06:25 PM   #6 
  - Hamas self-appointed themselves rulers of Gaza....they were never elected for that role.  shira   Sep-04-10 06:31 PM   #7 
  - Their role in Gaza was determined by AK-47, not the ballot  ProgressiveProfessor   Sep-05-10 10:48 AM   #13 
  - But they did win the election  Recursion   Sep-06-10 04:09 PM   #39 
  - So? The PA was in charge of security and had every right to disarm Hamas. n/t  shira   Sep-06-10 06:09 PM   #60 
  - Not quite correct  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 04:18 PM   #43 
     - No, Hamas winning parliamentary majority doesn't give them the right to rule militarily. n/t  shira   Sep-06-10 06:10 PM   #61 
     - That has fuck all to do with anything I said, I'm afraid  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 06:25 PM   #65 
        - Actually it does. Even if Hamas loses in elections, they will continue to rule Gaza by gun....  shira   Sep-06-10 06:58 PM   #68 
           - They very well might do that. And I'm worried that they will  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 11:33 PM   #77 
              - My response....  shira   Sep-07-10 05:19 AM   #79 
                 - Well, let's hope we're both pleasantly surprised n/t  Chulanowa   Sep-08-10 01:20 PM   #95 
     - You seriously believe that Fatah staged a violent coup attempt?  oberliner   Sep-06-10 08:10 PM   #71 
     - So it was like the 6 day war  Recursion   Sep-07-10 08:22 AM   #84 
        - Well, I don't entirely buy the Hamas/Vanity Fair version of what happened  oberliner   Sep-07-10 10:20 AM   #85 
     - They remain in power because the US, Israel and Fatah don't want elections.  ProgressiveMuslim   Sep-13-10 01:15 PM   #108 
  - Hamas is the reason Gaza suffers.  sellitman   Sep-05-10 10:31 PM   #14 
     - Channeling Madeline Albright, are we? n/t  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 04:28 PM   #44 
  - Actually, Hamas has indicated a willingness to consider a two-state approach  Ken Burch   Sep-04-10 06:35 PM   #9 
     - Hamas has called for a limited ceasefire based on 2 states with full RoR. n/t  shira   Sep-04-10 06:37 PM   #10 
     - Oh the HORROR!!!! 2 states with R-o-R!!!! OMG!!!  ProgressiveMuslim   Sep-13-10 01:16 PM   #109 
     - Hamas has only claimed they want total destruction of the Zionist State  sellitman   Sep-05-10 10:43 PM   #15 
  - I oppose what Hamas did to these people....  Ken Burch   Sep-04-10 06:32 PM   #8 
  - You should have stopped before  issy98   Sep-06-10 03:39 PM   #27 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-06-10 03:45 PM   #29 
  - Human shields are always morally problematic  Recursion   Sep-06-10 03:55 PM   #33 
     - "Human-shield". You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. n/t  shira   Sep-06-10 04:05 PM   #35 
     - It means exactly what I'm saying it means  Recursion   Sep-06-10 04:08 PM   #37 
     - Wouldn't all Israelis be "human sheilds" by that definition?  oberliner   Sep-06-10 05:14 PM   #51 
        - Only for the "into the sea" crowd  Recursion   Sep-06-10 05:17 PM   #52 
        - I don't agree with your analysis here  oberliner   Sep-06-10 05:19 PM   #54 
        - Apparently all Palestinians are...  shaayecanaan   Sep-06-10 10:44 PM   #73 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-06-10 11:36 PM   #78 
           - except that it is very real.  Shaktimaan   Sep-11-10 05:10 AM   #104 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-06-10 04:16 PM   #42 
     - Let's be clear: the 1.3 million in Gaza weren't "put there" by Palestinian  ProgressiveMuslim   Sep-13-10 01:19 PM   #110 
  - Why is it so important to have people say  Ken Burch   Sep-06-10 05:04 PM   #50 
  - self-delete. n/t  shira   Sep-06-10 03:43 PM   #28 
  - I don't think Hamas is right, but  Crunchy Frog   Sep-04-10 07:28 PM   #11 
  - No need to wonder, we know what has happened to  Dick Dastardly   Sep-04-10 11:20 PM   #12 
     - You make some bad arguments  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 03:53 PM   #31 
     - So you consider Arab Israelis to be the settlers  shaayecanaan   Sep-06-10 10:45 PM   #74 
  - And?  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 12:33 AM   #16 
  - let's follow your analogy more...  Shaktimaan   Sep-06-10 03:55 AM   #17 
  - Are you really asking this?  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 02:29 PM   #21 
     - Some of that property over the 1949 armistice line was Jewish owned prior to 1949. That's why...  shira   Sep-06-10 03:49 PM   #30 
     - well, that's an interesting stance for you to take, Shira.  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 04:15 PM   #41 
        - What part of disputed land don't you understand? n/t  shira   Sep-06-10 06:11 PM   #62 
           - I understand it just fine  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 06:28 PM   #66 
     - why?  Shaktimaan   Sep-10-10 01:25 AM   #100 
        - The problem with your position is simple  Chulanowa   Sep-10-10 01:46 PM   #101 
           - That isn't what I am saying at all.  Shaktimaan   Sep-11-10 02:20 AM   #102 
  - Do you agree with Hamas that Israeli settlers are legitimate targets for killing then?  oberliner   Sep-06-10 05:50 AM   #18 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-06-10 02:26 PM   #20 
     - Stunning response  oberliner   Sep-06-10 03:01 PM   #24 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-06-10 03:26 PM   #25 
        - I don't have a "team" and I do not support the killing of civilians ever by anyone  oberliner   Sep-06-10 03:32 PM   #26 
        - Don't give me the feigned innocence shit, Oberliner  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 04:08 PM   #38 
           - No idea what you mean by that comment  oberliner   Sep-06-10 04:34 PM   #45 
           - Well, that's great  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 04:57 PM   #47 
           - West Bank Violence: Hamas must prevent further attacks on Israeli citizens  oberliner   Sep-06-10 05:02 PM   #49 
              - Again with the platitudes  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 05:39 PM   #57 
                 - If the Israeli settlers will not leave voluntarily then Palestinians have the right to kill them?  oberliner   Sep-06-10 06:00 PM   #58 
                    - Not quite sp  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 06:24 PM   #64 
                       - Human Rights Watch: Attacking civilians is never justified  oberliner   Sep-06-10 07:26 PM   #70 
                       - You seem unable to answer the question  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 11:03 PM   #75 
                          - Simple - well not so simple but here's what they should do for peace...  shira   Sep-07-10 05:25 AM   #80 
                          - You're right. That's not even remotely simple  Chulanowa   Sep-09-10 01:54 AM   #97 
                          - You are right...  Shaktimaan   Sep-11-10 11:22 AM   #105 
                       - There is another option  whosinpower   Sep-07-10 06:10 PM   #92 
           - I found lots showing disdain for the killing of Israeli civilians, but when it comes to Palestinians  Violet_Crumble   Sep-11-10 11:57 PM   #106 
           - What does stolen/stealing mean?  Cannafield   Sep-07-10 07:40 AM   #82 
        - Chuli - do you have a problem with the PA and Hamas inciting Palestinians to murder settlers?  shira   Sep-06-10 03:54 PM   #32 
           - Something needs to be done to make the settlements costly enough for Israel to abandon them  Recursion   Sep-06-10 03:59 PM   #34 
           - If you've seen pictures of the highlands in Jerusalem, you'd know that Palestinians are doing...  shira   Sep-06-10 04:07 PM   #36 
              - Yes people tend to forget that Israel stilll needs and  issy98   Sep-06-10 06:05 PM   #59 
           - Israel awards terrorists with state funerals and makes them Prime Ministers  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 04:13 PM   #40 
              - "Israel awards terrorists with state funerals and makes them Prime Ministers"...well...  Ken Burch   Sep-06-10 05:30 PM   #56 
              - Why didn't you answer whether Hamas/PLO disgusts you? n/t  shira   Sep-06-10 06:12 PM   #63 
                 - Allow me to explain to you, via anecdote  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 06:34 PM   #67 
                    - I can only assume none of that disgusts you as you've never once articulated that...  shira   Sep-06-10 07:08 PM   #69 
                       - Well, I've given it a little more thought  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 11:19 PM   #76 
                          - To be clear...  shira   Sep-07-10 05:31 AM   #81 
                             - I think I've already answered your question  Chulanowa   Sep-09-10 02:13 AM   #98 
        - Scary such posters exist here.  issy98   Sep-06-10 04:45 PM   #46 
           - Years of watching the gentlemen across the aisle cheer for the deaths of Arabs  Chulanowa   Sep-06-10 04:59 PM   #48 
              - Strange.  LTX   Sep-08-10 08:34 AM   #94 
                 - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-09-10 02:18 AM   #99 
  - Your fallacy is in assuming that property lines and ownership are established  elias7   Sep-06-10 09:58 AM   #19 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-06-10 02:36 PM   #22 
  - Well said! Also, the Settlers poison wells and kill Palistineans...  ProgressiveMajority   Sep-13-10 01:46 PM   #111 
  - I think "human shield" is a better term  Recursion   Sep-06-10 02:37 PM   #23 
  - What was the actual target in this case that these humans were shielding?  oberliner   Sep-06-10 05:18 PM   #53 
     - I could slime out of this and say "the actual target was Israel's sense of collective security"  Recursion   Sep-06-10 05:21 PM   #55 
        - With respect to your edit  oberliner   Sep-06-10 08:40 PM   #72 
           - Attacking soldiers vs. civilians  Recursion   Sep-07-10 08:19 AM   #83 
              - Did these particular settelers attack Palestinians and their property?  oberliner   Sep-07-10 10:30 AM   #86 
                 - How were the shooters supposed to know?  Recursion   Sep-07-10 10:41 AM   #87 
                    - They don't know - which is why they shouldn't kill them  oberliner   Sep-07-10 11:43 AM   #88 
                       - That was a separate argument  Recursion   Sep-07-10 11:48 AM   #89 
                          - That justfication can be used for just about anyone to kill anyone else  oberliner   Sep-07-10 11:55 AM   #90 
                          - Civilians die in war. Always.  Recursion   Sep-07-10 12:05 PM   #91 
                          - But was this why these people were shot?  Shaktimaan   Sep-11-10 02:53 AM   #103 
                          - There's no confusion about these settlers...they were ones from Hebron...  Violet_Crumble   Sep-12-10 12:00 AM   #107 
                          - That's not how human shields work.  Shaktimaan   Sep-18-10 02:22 AM   #112 
  - That doesn't justify murdering them, though.  Donald Ian Rankin   Sep-08-10 01:30 PM   #96 
 

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC