You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login

Reply #87: to second VC [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU
Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #22
87. to second VC
Edited on Sun Jan-31-10 01:15 AM by Djinn
Progressive is not generally used in Australia except sometimes in a social sense. Most people who would be considered progressive and/or liberal in the US would simply refer to themselves as left wing here. Where we live left wing is a term with far less baggage than in the US. For example we didn't have to listen to deafening screams of "COMMIE!!!" when we instituted national health.

It is perfectly possible to be progressive in the Australian sense but not be left wing. In general (although scarily it's changing) our right wingers aren't held to ransom by ridiculous sky god believing lunatics and therefore (mostly) have little problem being both right wing (which is an ECONOMIC distinction about ones beliefs in the distribution of wealth and power) and small L liberal in terms of gay rights, gender equity etc.

In the US the political discourse is so debased that as long as one is nice to gay/black/female people then one is 'left wing' regardless of their heinous views on wealth & power distribution. People in power have done that on purpose to hijack the left wing agenda so it looks like what the Dems advocate - ie bugger off on EFCA but yes to ending 'don't ask don't tell' (a laudable goal but not an inherently left wing one)

Most (if not all) US politicians are right wing REGARDLESS of their views on I/P because of their views on economic issues.

I have to take issue with your view of life in Gaza, have you ever been there? I assume not as you seem to have a highly distorted view of life there. Are you aware that there were FEMALE Hamas candidates (and at least one Christian one also). Are you aware that many women in Gaza work (including in high level HAMAS government positions, do not wear the veil, have equal voting rights etc

I have no love for Hamas (nor anyone that bases any of their views on some ridiculous ancient sky god myth - fundies settlers, fundie Muslims and fundie abortion provider murderers can ALL go jump as far as I'm concerned) HOWEVER I DO understand why the Gazan population, mostly, supports them. Do you have any understanding of why Hamas have so much support, why women support them in droves...hint it's got very little to do with fundamentalist Islam.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
  -Right-Wing Flame War! (LGF!!1!) Scurrilous  Jan-24-10 08:13 PM   #0 
  - This right wing movement proves over and over again that  MadMaddie   Jan-24-10 08:25 PM   #1 
  - I find the Kreestian right even more dangerous than the muslims  HillbillyBob   Jan-24-10 10:05 PM   #4 
  - I have read two full pages on the NYT and still can't figure out what  WCGreen   Jan-24-10 08:56 PM   #2 
  - Short version:  Scurrilous   Jan-24-10 09:08 PM   #3 
  - The term "Little Green Footballs" has been used for dexedrine capsules.  Ken Burch   Jan-24-10 10:41 PM   #5 
  - Seems like Charles "blows with the wind"  azurnoir   Jan-24-10 11:52 PM   #6 
  - Damn, one less site for some here to look to for finding compatible values and supportive  ConsAreLiars   Jan-25-10 01:37 AM   #7 
  - Somehow I knew that the poster you were referring to  shaayecanaan   Jan-25-10 04:45 AM   #8 
     - would the 2 of you (or anyone else) like to really discuss RW/LW views on I/P?  shira   Jan-25-10 06:02 AM   #9 
        - part II  shira   Jan-25-10 07:48 AM   #10 
           - I don't think that one's opinions on I/P in isolation are enough to label one as RW or LW  LeftishBrit   Jan-25-10 12:53 PM   #11 
              - I agree with most of that...  shira   Jan-25-10 02:41 PM   #12 
                 - Of course you would. LB was incredibly understated in her criticism of you...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-25-10 03:37 PM   #13 
                 - why do you say you're not a progressive, that you're a left winger?  shira   Jan-25-10 06:50 PM   #15 
                    - Because the term 'progressive' seems to be a bit of a wanky American term....  Violet_Crumble   Jan-25-10 08:18 PM   #18 
                       - why exactly is 'progressive' a wanky term in your opinion?  shira   Jan-26-10 03:56 AM   #22 
                          - Because it's fucking wanky, that's why...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-26-10 04:18 AM   #27 
                          - you're avoiding my questions with your obfuscation and personal attacks  shira   Jan-26-10 04:25 AM   #28 
                             - Says the person who can't answer questions it's asked...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-26-10 04:31 AM   #30 
                                - and you're still avoiding the questions  shira   Jan-26-10 04:39 AM   #33 
                                   - No, I'm not playing yr stupid control-freak games, that's all...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-26-10 04:44 AM   #34 
                                      - last chance...  shira   Jan-26-10 04:48 AM   #36 
                                         - You really don't bother paying attention to what's said to you, do you?  Violet_Crumble   Jan-26-10 04:54 AM   #37 
                                         - so you'll answer me once I answer you?  shira   Jan-26-10 04:59 AM   #38 
                                            - No, that's not what I said...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-26-10 05:02 AM   #40 
                                            -'re so predictable  shira   Jan-26-10 05:07 AM   #42 
                                            - Yeah, I'm always predictable about making sure people aren't twisting what I say...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-26-10 05:11 AM   #43 
                                         - Actually, those 'questions' range from plain weird to outright bizarre...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-26-10 05:32 AM   #45 
                                            - thanks for answering #2  shira   Jan-26-10 05:45 AM   #46 
                                               - No, don't recall slamming anyone...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-26-10 06:02 AM   #47 
                                               - you called the vast majority of progressive, pro-Israel leftist democratic politicos "stupid"  shira   Jan-26-10 06:09 PM   #53 
                                               - No, that's not what I said. Why do you insist on twisting what people say?  Violet_Crumble   Jan-27-10 12:22 AM   #57 
                                               - yeah, right  shira   Jan-27-10 04:27 AM   #62 
                                               - Answer the question you got asked. It's right in the title of the post you replied to...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-27-10 04:37 AM   #63 
                          - to second VC  Djinn   Jan-31-10 01:07 AM   #87 
                             - so LW congressmen and senators in the USA are really RW'ers due to their views on economic issues?  shira   Jan-31-10 04:54 AM   #89 
                                - not a "true believer"  Djinn   Jan-31-10 06:43 AM   #91 
                                - you're attributing false views of Hamas to me  shira   Jan-31-10 08:11 AM   #95 
                                   - what I believe is based on knowing people who live there  Djinn   Jan-31-10 08:15 AM   #97 
                                      - so next time you're in Gaza...  shira   Jan-31-10 08:27 AM   #99 
                                         - I've seen you attack the only poster here who has family in Gaza...  Violet_Crumble   Feb-01-10 01:12 AM   #105 
                                - By the standards of many countries, they are at any rate not LW  LeftishBrit   Jan-31-10 07:27 AM   #93 
                                   - thanks - back to the topic - what makes most Democrats views of I/P not so leftwing?  shira   Jan-31-10 07:55 AM   #94 
                                      - I simply don't understand the point of some of your questions...  LeftishBrit   Jan-31-10 08:14 AM   #96 
                                         - (edited) point of the Goldstone question...  shira   Jan-31-10 08:18 AM   #98 
                                            - Hard to label internationally...  LeftishBrit   Jan-31-10 11:27 AM   #100 
                                               - thanks, this is very helpful  shira   Jan-31-10 11:39 AM   #101 
                                               - Errmmm  LeftishBrit   Jan-31-10 12:40 PM   #102 
                                               - thanks again  shira   Jan-31-10 01:28 PM   #103 
                                               - Just to clarify that of course I realize that LePen is not British or American! I was citing him as  LeftishBrit   Jan-31-10 04:25 PM   #104 
                                                  - LB, see if you agree with me that Goldstone has no use for Israel's left  shira   Feb-01-10 03:09 PM   #107 
                 - Comments...  LeftishBrit   Jan-25-10 06:12 PM   #14 
                    - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-25-10 07:08 PM   #16 
                    - Why do you keep spamming this forum with links to some stupid blog?  Violet_Crumble   Jan-25-10 08:21 PM   #19 
                       - that 2nd link on WilliamBapthorpe is a perfect example  shira   Jan-26-10 03:39 AM   #21 
                          - Uh, you didn't answer the question I aqsked you.  Violet_Crumble   Jan-26-10 04:05 AM   #23 
                             - but you say you're against anti-Jewish bigotry  shira   Jan-26-10 04:07 AM   #24 
                                - And you still refuse to answer the question I asked you...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-26-10 04:10 AM   #25 
                                   - i'm against racism and bigotry and so is CiFWatch, that's why  shira   Jan-26-10 04:17 AM   #26 
                                      - I know plenty of places that are against bigotry...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-26-10 04:26 AM   #29 
                                         - do you find anything wrong with these comments...  shira   Jan-26-10 04:33 AM   #31 
                                            - I've got no fucking idea and even less interest in knowing what that's from..  Violet_Crumble   Jan-26-10 04:36 AM   #32 
                                               - those are comments right off CiF and that poster was not banned  shira   Jan-26-10 04:45 AM   #35 
                                                  - What the fuck do you want anyone here to do about it? This is DU, not CiF...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-26-10 04:59 AM   #39 
                                                  - at least admit that's bigotry CiF needs to act more seriously against  shira   Jan-26-10 05:05 AM   #41 
                                                  - What bit of me not being interested in the comments at CiF or that blog are you not getting?  Violet_Crumble   Jan-26-10 05:13 AM   #44 
                    - wrote and asked....  pelsar   Jan-26-10 01:00 AM   #20 
                    - Thanks - interesting points!  LeftishBrit   Jan-26-10 02:19 PM   #50 
                       - religion can be "passive"....  pelsar   Jan-26-10 11:34 PM   #56 
                    - response to LB  shira   Jan-26-10 08:46 AM   #48 
                       - A few points  LeftishBrit   Jan-26-10 02:07 PM   #49 
                          - self delete  shira   Jan-26-10 02:57 PM   #51 
                          - on your two points....  shira   Jan-26-10 02:59 PM   #52 
                          - Are you for real? Of course there's bigotry against Muslims at CiF!  Violet_Crumble   Jan-27-10 12:28 AM   #58 
                          - then show me please  shira   Jan-27-10 04:11 AM   #61 
                             - What's this?  Violet_Crumble   Jan-27-10 04:41 AM   #64 
                                - link?  shira   Jan-27-10 04:57 AM   #65 
                                   - Here...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-27-10 05:02 AM   #66 
                                      - thanks, that's pretty bad.....looks like the mods are busier on I/P threads where it's more heated  shira   Jan-27-10 05:09 AM   #67 
                                         - No, I'm not going to waste time searching for things on another site...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-27-10 05:13 AM   #68 
                                            - well, if/when you ever find an article on CiF that is anti-Muslim or racist against any group...  shira   Jan-27-10 03:40 PM   #70 
                                               - I just said I'm not going to go looking...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-27-10 08:09 PM   #73 
                                               - then don't  shira   Jan-28-10 04:35 AM   #75 
                                               - That's what I've been telling you for the past few posts. Glad you finally got the hint...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-28-10 04:52 AM   #77 
                                               - your views on I/P are not mainstream leftwing in either the USA or Israel  shira   Jan-28-10 05:47 AM   #79 
                                               - As I've told you repeatedly, you've got no clue what my views are...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-28-10 05:55 AM   #80 
                                               - your views are counter to the ADL and most voting democrats/leftists in the USA and Israel  shira   Jan-28-10 05:59 AM   #81 
                                               - As I've told you repeatedly, you've got no clue what my views are...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-28-10 06:01 AM   #82 
                                               - ROFL  Djinn   Jan-31-10 01:28 AM   #88 
                                               - please explain what's so RW about the mainstream left in both the USA and Israel  shira   Jan-31-10 04:57 AM   #90 
                                               - go do politics 101  Djinn   Jan-31-10 06:51 AM   #92 
                                               - Good luck trying to get any sense out of it...  Violet_Crumble   Feb-01-10 01:19 AM   #106 
                          - Taking your challenge...  LeftishBrit   Jan-27-10 05:31 PM   #71 
                             - thanks, see post #67  shira   Jan-28-10 04:09 AM   #74 
                                - One would have to define an 'anti-Muslim' article  LeftishBrit   Jan-28-10 01:02 PM   #83 
                                   - that article isn't hateful or anti-Muslim bigotry  shira   Jan-28-10 01:20 PM   #84 
                                      - It isn't anti-Muslim; but it is defending aggression against Iraq  LeftishBrit   Jan-28-10 04:25 PM   #85 
                          - I always figured your reasonableness schtick...  shaayecanaan   Jan-26-10 10:57 PM   #54 
                          - come on...i'm still around....  pelsar   Jan-26-10 11:16 PM   #55 
                          - I think you've been "dethroned"  azurnoir   Jan-27-10 09:21 AM   #69 
                          - Dont know...  shaayecanaan   Jan-28-10 04:42 AM   #76 
                             - why dont you reverse it....  pelsar   Jan-28-10 05:29 AM   #78 
                          - You would be wrong!  LeftishBrit   Jan-27-10 03:11 AM   #60 
                             - Classical philology  shaayecanaan   Jan-27-10 06:20 PM   #72 
                          - I just wanted to commend you on how patient and friendly you are to Shira...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-27-10 12:39 AM   #59 
  - A lot of bad things happened in DU after 9-11 that let to an exodus to LGF  IndianaGreen   Jan-25-10 07:27 PM   #17 
  - This is a very interesting article  varelse   Jan-29-10 09:25 PM   #86 

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators

Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC