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Reply #53: you called the vast majority of progressive, pro-Israel leftist democratic politicos "stupid" [View All]

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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. you called the vast majority of progressive, pro-Israel leftist democratic politicos "stupid"
Edited on Tue Jan-26-10 06:37 PM by shira
...or at the very least - tools bought off by lobbies and/or their voters. So they're either stupid or weak and will not stand up for what you (or they) believe to be the correct leftwing view on I/P. You slammed them. There's something definitely wrong with most leftwing, democratic, pro-Israel American politicos in your opinion.

The fact is, you are on the outside looking in with regard to both the American and Israeli leftwing mainstream. Your views are too extreme for the vast majority of Israeli and American leftists. IOW, your views on I/P are incompatable with the mainstream left in both countries. It's beyond ludicrous to claim that the majority of leftwingers in America and Israel are a little too "rightwing" or conservative, so why do you attempt to go that route with me?

It's ironic that you bring up my lack of posting upstairs, as if that shows I'm really not so leftwing. The irony is that you're even more "silent" WRT condemning Hamas' use of child shields and combatants, treatment of women and gays, incitement to kill Jews followed up by celebrating those murders (Sami Kuntar hero worship), Egypt's blockade and stopping all aid to Gaza, etc. And you shed no tears for the fact that no trusted leftwing organization or group that you know consistently stands up for Palestinians against their own regressive Arab leadership (which makes Nutty look extremely liberal in comparison). For some reason it doesn't bother you that in effect - even if not in intent - far leftists like yourself only contribute to more Palestinian suffering and play into the hands of local Arab leadership which is largely devoted to the Palestinian cause (at the expense of the Palestinian people). You're playing their game, doing the demonizing for Hamas and Fatah, even if you don't see it that way - keeping the pressure largely off them and always on Israel - like the Goldstone Report.

As for criticizing Israel, there is plenty of rational leftwing criticism out there (Carlo Strenger, David Hirsch, Amos Oz, etc..) and then there are far leftwing defamers who go way beyond criticism and into demonization. You're well aware of the difference between criticism and demonization (when it comes to anti-Muslim bigotry), so do you think it would be fair to label you as someone who is against any criticism of Muslim (or Arab) leadership? Would it be fair to say you can't tolerate legitimate criticism of Arab leadership at all, without labeling it bigotry? In your world only Israel should be criticized, and that criticism should run constantly 24/7 with no time to think about criticizing Arab leadership....?

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  - Short version:  Scurrilous   Jan-24-10 09:08 PM   #3 
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  - Somehow I knew that the poster you were referring to  shaayecanaan   Jan-25-10 04:45 AM   #8 
     - would the 2 of you (or anyone else) like to really discuss RW/LW views on I/P?  shira   Jan-25-10 06:02 AM   #9 
        - part II  shira   Jan-25-10 07:48 AM   #10 
           - I don't think that one's opinions on I/P in isolation are enough to label one as RW or LW  LeftishBrit   Jan-25-10 12:53 PM   #11 
              - I agree with most of that...  shira   Jan-25-10 02:41 PM   #12 
                 - Of course you would. LB was incredibly understated in her criticism of you...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-25-10 03:37 PM   #13 
                 - why do you say you're not a progressive, that you're a left winger?  shira   Jan-25-10 06:50 PM   #15 
                    - Because the term 'progressive' seems to be a bit of a wanky American term....  Violet_Crumble   Jan-25-10 08:18 PM   #18 
                       - why exactly is 'progressive' a wanky term in your opinion?  shira   Jan-26-10 03:56 AM   #22 
                          - Because it's fucking wanky, that's why...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-26-10 04:18 AM   #27 
                          - you're avoiding my questions with your obfuscation and personal attacks  shira   Jan-26-10 04:25 AM   #28 
                             - Says the person who can't answer questions it's asked...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-26-10 04:31 AM   #30 
                                - and you're still avoiding the questions  shira   Jan-26-10 04:39 AM   #33 
                                   - No, I'm not playing yr stupid control-freak games, that's all...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-26-10 04:44 AM   #34 
                                      - last chance...  shira   Jan-26-10 04:48 AM   #36 
                                         - You really don't bother paying attention to what's said to you, do you?  Violet_Crumble   Jan-26-10 04:54 AM   #37 
                                         - so you'll answer me once I answer you?  shira   Jan-26-10 04:59 AM   #38 
                                            - No, that's not what I said...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-26-10 05:02 AM   #40 
                                            -'re so predictable  shira   Jan-26-10 05:07 AM   #42 
                                            - Yeah, I'm always predictable about making sure people aren't twisting what I say...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-26-10 05:11 AM   #43 
                                         - Actually, those 'questions' range from plain weird to outright bizarre...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-26-10 05:32 AM   #45 
                                            - thanks for answering #2  shira   Jan-26-10 05:45 AM   #46 
                                               - No, don't recall slamming anyone...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-26-10 06:02 AM   #47 
                                               - you called the vast majority of progressive, pro-Israel leftist democratic politicos "stupid"  shira   Jan-26-10 06:09 PM   #53 
                                               - No, that's not what I said. Why do you insist on twisting what people say?  Violet_Crumble   Jan-27-10 12:22 AM   #57 
                                               - yeah, right  shira   Jan-27-10 04:27 AM   #62 
                                               - Answer the question you got asked. It's right in the title of the post you replied to...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-27-10 04:37 AM   #63 
                          - to second VC  Djinn   Jan-31-10 01:07 AM   #87 
                             - so LW congressmen and senators in the USA are really RW'ers due to their views on economic issues?  shira   Jan-31-10 04:54 AM   #89 
                                - not a "true believer"  Djinn   Jan-31-10 06:43 AM   #91 
                                - you're attributing false views of Hamas to me  shira   Jan-31-10 08:11 AM   #95 
                                   - what I believe is based on knowing people who live there  Djinn   Jan-31-10 08:15 AM   #97 
                                      - so next time you're in Gaza...  shira   Jan-31-10 08:27 AM   #99 
                                         - I've seen you attack the only poster here who has family in Gaza...  Violet_Crumble   Feb-01-10 01:12 AM   #105 
                                - By the standards of many countries, they are at any rate not LW  LeftishBrit   Jan-31-10 07:27 AM   #93 
                                   - thanks - back to the topic - what makes most Democrats views of I/P not so leftwing?  shira   Jan-31-10 07:55 AM   #94 
                                      - I simply don't understand the point of some of your questions...  LeftishBrit   Jan-31-10 08:14 AM   #96 
                                         - (edited) point of the Goldstone question...  shira   Jan-31-10 08:18 AM   #98 
                                            - Hard to label internationally...  LeftishBrit   Jan-31-10 11:27 AM   #100 
                                               - thanks, this is very helpful  shira   Jan-31-10 11:39 AM   #101 
                                               - Errmmm  LeftishBrit   Jan-31-10 12:40 PM   #102 
                                               - thanks again  shira   Jan-31-10 01:28 PM   #103 
                                               - Just to clarify that of course I realize that LePen is not British or American! I was citing him as  LeftishBrit   Jan-31-10 04:25 PM   #104 
                                                  - LB, see if you agree with me that Goldstone has no use for Israel's left  shira   Feb-01-10 03:09 PM   #107 
                 - Comments...  LeftishBrit   Jan-25-10 06:12 PM   #14 
                    - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-25-10 07:08 PM   #16 
                    - Why do you keep spamming this forum with links to some stupid blog?  Violet_Crumble   Jan-25-10 08:21 PM   #19 
                       - that 2nd link on WilliamBapthorpe is a perfect example  shira   Jan-26-10 03:39 AM   #21 
                          - Uh, you didn't answer the question I aqsked you.  Violet_Crumble   Jan-26-10 04:05 AM   #23 
                             - but you say you're against anti-Jewish bigotry  shira   Jan-26-10 04:07 AM   #24 
                                - And you still refuse to answer the question I asked you...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-26-10 04:10 AM   #25 
                                   - i'm against racism and bigotry and so is CiFWatch, that's why  shira   Jan-26-10 04:17 AM   #26 
                                      - I know plenty of places that are against bigotry...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-26-10 04:26 AM   #29 
                                         - do you find anything wrong with these comments...  shira   Jan-26-10 04:33 AM   #31 
                                            - I've got no fucking idea and even less interest in knowing what that's from..  Violet_Crumble   Jan-26-10 04:36 AM   #32 
                                               - those are comments right off CiF and that poster was not banned  shira   Jan-26-10 04:45 AM   #35 
                                                  - What the fuck do you want anyone here to do about it? This is DU, not CiF...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-26-10 04:59 AM   #39 
                                                  - at least admit that's bigotry CiF needs to act more seriously against  shira   Jan-26-10 05:05 AM   #41 
                                                  - What bit of me not being interested in the comments at CiF or that blog are you not getting?  Violet_Crumble   Jan-26-10 05:13 AM   #44 
                    - wrote and asked....  pelsar   Jan-26-10 01:00 AM   #20 
                    - Thanks - interesting points!  LeftishBrit   Jan-26-10 02:19 PM   #50 
                       - religion can be "passive"....  pelsar   Jan-26-10 11:34 PM   #56 
                    - response to LB  shira   Jan-26-10 08:46 AM   #48 
                       - A few points  LeftishBrit   Jan-26-10 02:07 PM   #49 
                          - self delete  shira   Jan-26-10 02:57 PM   #51 
                          - on your two points....  shira   Jan-26-10 02:59 PM   #52 
                          - Are you for real? Of course there's bigotry against Muslims at CiF!  Violet_Crumble   Jan-27-10 12:28 AM   #58 
                          - then show me please  shira   Jan-27-10 04:11 AM   #61 
                             - What's this?  Violet_Crumble   Jan-27-10 04:41 AM   #64 
                                - link?  shira   Jan-27-10 04:57 AM   #65 
                                   - Here...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-27-10 05:02 AM   #66 
                                      - thanks, that's pretty bad.....looks like the mods are busier on I/P threads where it's more heated  shira   Jan-27-10 05:09 AM   #67 
                                         - No, I'm not going to waste time searching for things on another site...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-27-10 05:13 AM   #68 
                                            - well, if/when you ever find an article on CiF that is anti-Muslim or racist against any group...  shira   Jan-27-10 03:40 PM   #70 
                                               - I just said I'm not going to go looking...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-27-10 08:09 PM   #73 
                                               - then don't  shira   Jan-28-10 04:35 AM   #75 
                                               - That's what I've been telling you for the past few posts. Glad you finally got the hint...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-28-10 04:52 AM   #77 
                                               - your views on I/P are not mainstream leftwing in either the USA or Israel  shira   Jan-28-10 05:47 AM   #79 
                                               - As I've told you repeatedly, you've got no clue what my views are...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-28-10 05:55 AM   #80 
                                               - your views are counter to the ADL and most voting democrats/leftists in the USA and Israel  shira   Jan-28-10 05:59 AM   #81 
                                               - As I've told you repeatedly, you've got no clue what my views are...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-28-10 06:01 AM   #82 
                                               - ROFL  Djinn   Jan-31-10 01:28 AM   #88 
                                               - please explain what's so RW about the mainstream left in both the USA and Israel  shira   Jan-31-10 04:57 AM   #90 
                                               - go do politics 101  Djinn   Jan-31-10 06:51 AM   #92 
                                               - Good luck trying to get any sense out of it...  Violet_Crumble   Feb-01-10 01:19 AM   #106 
                          - Taking your challenge...  LeftishBrit   Jan-27-10 05:31 PM   #71 
                             - thanks, see post #67  shira   Jan-28-10 04:09 AM   #74 
                                - One would have to define an 'anti-Muslim' article  LeftishBrit   Jan-28-10 01:02 PM   #83 
                                   - that article isn't hateful or anti-Muslim bigotry  shira   Jan-28-10 01:20 PM   #84 
                                      - It isn't anti-Muslim; but it is defending aggression against Iraq  LeftishBrit   Jan-28-10 04:25 PM   #85 
                          - I always figured your reasonableness schtick...  shaayecanaan   Jan-26-10 10:57 PM   #54 
                          - come on...i'm still around....  pelsar   Jan-26-10 11:16 PM   #55 
                          - I think you've been "dethroned"  azurnoir   Jan-27-10 09:21 AM   #69 
                          - Dont know...  shaayecanaan   Jan-28-10 04:42 AM   #76 
                             - why dont you reverse it....  pelsar   Jan-28-10 05:29 AM   #78 
                          - You would be wrong!  LeftishBrit   Jan-27-10 03:11 AM   #60 
                             - Classical philology  shaayecanaan   Jan-27-10 06:20 PM   #72 
                          - I just wanted to commend you on how patient and friendly you are to Shira...  Violet_Crumble   Jan-27-10 12:39 AM   #59 
  - A lot of bad things happened in DU after 9-11 that let to an exodus to LGF  IndianaGreen   Jan-25-10 07:27 PM   #17 
  - This is a very interesting article  varelse   Jan-29-10 09:25 PM   #86 

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