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Reply #57: I have both eyes, thank you very much. [View All]

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aranthus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #20
57. I have both eyes, thank you very much.
Edited on Mon Sep-21-09 06:07 PM by aranthus
And I'm sure one could manufacture a relatively innocuous description of the Nakba narrative (though you didn't; you just assumed it). As for, "why does it make so much difference to you whether they were expelled or fled out of fear? The fact remains that they weren't allowed to return to their homes...." If you are as smart as I think, and have as much knowledge and understanding of the conflict as you claim, then you already know the answer, so this question seems to be a bit of posing. Nevertheless, the answer is that it has to do with responsibility for one's actions and situation. The Palestinians think of the Nakba as something that was done to them, rather than as something to which they have a causal relation. If they were forcibly expelled, then it's all Israel's fault. If they became refugees in a war that they started, then they have some responsibility. Now you might say that even if the Palestinians have some responsibility for being refugees, that it isn't and shouldn't be all on them, and I would agree with you. However, I have yet to read anything by a Palestinian arguing that it was a mistake to have followed the Mufti in 1947; that they shouldn't have opted for a general strike, rioting, and attacking the Jews after the Partition Resolution vote, and that maybe they should have tried to negotiate a settlement. I have yet to see the Palestinians take any responsibility for their actions and their own refugee status. For example, in a recent interview in the New Statesman, Khalid Meshal, head of Hamas, said, among other things:

": Are you committed to the destruction of Israel?

Khalid Meshal: What is really happening is the destruction of the Palestinian people by Israel; it is the one that occupies our land and exiles us, kills us, incarcerates us and persecutes our people. We are the victims, Israel is the oppressor, and not vice versa."

And also:
"KL: What is your view of the cause of the conflict between the state of Israel and the Palestinians?

KM: The conflict is the outcome of aggression and occupation. Our struggle against the Israelis is not because they are Jewish, but because they invaded our homeland and dispossessed us. We do not accept that because the Jews were once persecuted in Europe they have the right to take our land and throw us out. The injustices suffered by the Jews in Europe were horrible and criminal, but were not perpetrated by the Palestinians or the Arabs or the Muslims. So, why should we be punished for the sins of others or be made to pay for their crimes?"

These ideas are bullshit. If the Palestinians continue to believe them, then they aren't going to be interested in any reasonable peace.
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  -UNRWA chief: Gaza school curriculum does not include Holocaust oberliner  Sep-01-09 05:10 PM   #0 
  - ‘Nakba’ removed from textbooks  ProgressiveMuslim   Sep-02-09 07:44 AM   #1 
  - Everyones already been up and down the forums over this.  Kurska   Sep-02-09 10:20 AM   #2 
  - Not recognizing an opinion?  azurnoir   Sep-02-09 10:42 AM   #3 
     - Oh because thats phrasing the disagreement in a totally academic and impartial way.  Kurska   Sep-02-09 10:52 AM   #5 
        - The founding of Israel was indeed justified  azurnoir   Sep-02-09 11:27 AM   #8 
           - I'll agree with that, no person should ever have to become a refugee.  Kurska   Sep-02-09 11:31 AM   #9 
  - Quick! Look over there!  Behind the Aegis   Sep-02-09 03:49 PM   #13 
  - My point is plain: the propensity to ignore history is hardly unique to Gazans.  ProgressiveMuslim   Sep-03-09 06:07 AM   #23 
     - What a terrific point to make!  oberliner   Sep-03-09 07:53 AM   #24 
     - Have you considered that Palestinians might be better able to "feel your pain" if Israel's boot was  ProgressiveMuslim   Sep-03-09 05:37 PM   #39 
        - No one needs to feel any pain or show any sympathy  oberliner   Sep-04-09 05:10 AM   #54 
     - You're correct. Your point is plain.  Behind the Aegis   Sep-03-09 12:36 PM   #27 
  - As it should have been.  aranthus   Sep-02-09 03:53 PM   #14 
  - all good points - teaching a false Nakba narrative and denying the holocaust does nothing to bring..  shira   Sep-02-09 05:23 PM   #17 
  - Pity they don't commission some one-eyed pro-Israel type from the US to check the school-books....  Violet_Crumble   Sep-02-09 10:09 PM   #20 
     - I have both eyes, thank you very much.  aranthus   Sep-21-09 05:33 PM   #57 
  - The jta citation says they're  Igel   Sep-03-09 11:42 AM   #25 
  - Sounds like propaganda released  azurnoir   Sep-02-09 10:44 AM   #4 
  - "UNRWA would choose to teach this only in its schools in Gaza" where are you getting this from?  Kurska   Sep-02-09 10:52 AM   #6 
     - Gaza schools were the only ones mentioned  azurnoir   Sep-02-09 11:25 AM   #7 
        - Where else does UNRWA run schools?  Kurska   Sep-02-09 11:32 AM   #10 
        - Palestinian Authority textbooks, used in the occupied West Bank, refer to Nazi massacres  oberliner   Sep-02-09 11:59 AM   #11 
           - Do you agree with what Kurska said about the Nakba in post 2?  Violet_Crumble   Sep-02-09 03:43 PM   #12 
           - J Street Statement on Hamas’ Holocaust Denial  oberliner   Sep-02-09 04:48 PM   #16 
              - please answer my question  Violet_Crumble   Sep-02-09 07:25 PM   #18 
           - From the original article  azurnoir   Sep-02-09 03:56 PM   #15 
              - why is it propaganda?  pelsar   Sep-02-09 09:52 PM   #19 
                 - That's not how propaganda works....  Violet_Crumble   Sep-02-09 10:14 PM   #21 
                 - ok...never actually thought of it...  pelsar   Sep-03-09 05:09 PM   #37 
                    - That's how I used to think of it as well...  Violet_Crumble   Sep-04-09 07:12 AM   #56 
                 - It becomes propaganda when  azurnoir   Sep-02-09 10:29 PM   #22 
                    - yes and no ...see post above..  pelsar   Sep-03-09 05:13 PM   #38 
                       - Discuss yes but center on a particular statement as representative  azurnoir   Sep-04-09 01:09 AM   #49 
  - We all agree that Holocaust denial is wrong.  Ken Burch   Sep-03-09 11:46 AM   #26 
     - Your post is hysterical in it's irony.  Behind the Aegis   Sep-03-09 12:41 PM   #28 
        - I denounced the idiot in Hamas who defended leaving the Holocaust out of the curriculum  Ken Burch   Sep-03-09 12:47 PM   #29 
           - Good for you.  Behind the Aegis   Sep-03-09 12:53 PM   #30 
              - The Holocaust was solely a European act. Solely a European CHRISTIAN act.  Ken Burch   Sep-03-09 01:00 PM   #31 
                 - Blah, blah, blah.  Behind the Aegis   Sep-03-09 01:19 PM   #32 
                 - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-03-09 01:22 PM   #33 
                    - Wrong. Again.  Behind the Aegis   Sep-03-09 01:46 PM   #34 
                       - What point were you making in referencing the Nakba, then?  Ken Burch   Sep-03-09 03:45 PM   #35 
                          - It really isn't all that difficult to get.  Behind the Aegis   Sep-03-09 05:03 PM   #36 
                             - The Israelis of today should not suffer for the Nakba  Ken Burch   Sep-03-09 05:49 PM   #41 
                                - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-03-09 07:12 PM   #45 
                                   - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-03-09 11:41 PM   #47 
                                      - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-04-09 01:11 AM   #50 
                 - They have no answer for that, Ken.  ProgressiveMuslim   Sep-03-09 05:38 PM   #40 
                    - Well, Aegis has his usual "answer"...unjustified abuse and derision  Ken Burch   Sep-03-09 05:52 PM   #42 
                       - of course theres an answer....its just not so simple...plus, it requires knowledge of history....  pelsar   Sep-03-09 06:38 PM   #43 
                       - While I can see a case for Israel's existence, iZionism actually wasn't ever an effective tool  Ken Burch   Sep-04-09 12:10 AM   #48 
                          - there goes the coffee again.....  pelsar   Sep-04-09 03:17 AM   #51 
                             - I wasn't saying people should have stayed in the DP camps  Ken Burch   Sep-04-09 03:31 AM   #52 
                                - tsk tsk tsk...please some reality.....  pelsar   Sep-04-09 04:17 AM   #53 
                                - Most Jewish DP's wanted to go to Palestine, not the US or Canada  oberliner   Sep-04-09 06:19 AM   #55 
                                - Do you understand anything at all about Jewish history? nt  Vegasaurus   Sep-21-09 05:47 PM   #58 
                       - more for Ken, PM, and others truly interested in history  shira   Sep-03-09 06:59 PM   #44 
                       - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Sep-03-09 07:14 PM   #46 
 

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