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Reply #40: Ah so now your the gatekeeper of how a "Progressive" should feel? [View All]

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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. Ah so now your the gatekeeper of how a "Progressive" should feel?
Edited on Tue Sep-01-09 01:31 PM by azurnoir
but shouldn't a "progressive" take the quotes I cited into consideration as an explanation of how Palestinians especially those in Gaza might feel about this or is critical thinking not part of being a "Progressive"?
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  -Hamas leader denies Nazi genocide of Jews Dr_Willie_Feelgood  Aug-31-09 10:42 AM   #0 
  - Wait. Is he denying the Holocaust or rejecting a specific demand to put it in a curriculum?  Recursion   Aug-31-09 10:45 AM   #1 
  - Both  Dr_Willie_Feelgood   Aug-31-09 10:48 AM   #2 
     - I still don't know what he's saying  Recursion   Aug-31-09 10:50 AM   #3 
        - Sound like denial to me - "so-called Holocaust"  Dr_Willie_Feelgood   Aug-31-09 10:56 AM   #4 
        - *shrug* I'm not going to break my back defending Hamas  Recursion   Aug-31-09 10:58 AM   #5 
           - The letter said that the Holocaust was a "lie invented by the Zionists"  oberliner   Aug-31-09 11:35 AM   #9 
              - Is that the quote? because on my reading of the article  azurnoir   Aug-31-09 02:07 PM   #13 
                 - Yes, that is the quote  oberliner   Aug-31-09 02:50 PM   #15 
                    - But that isn't the quote is it? In fact the quote backs up this  azurnoir   Aug-31-09 03:27 PM   #16 
                       - Yes that is the quote  oberliner   Aug-31-09 03:38 PM   #17 
                          - You choose that quote to the exclusion of all other the quotes  azurnoir   Sep-01-09 01:37 AM   #33 
                             - That is the quote that I find most egregiously repugnant  oberliner   Sep-01-09 05:47 AM   #34 
                             - Ah so now your the gatekeeper of how a "Progressive" should feel?  azurnoir   Sep-01-09 12:48 PM   #40 
                                - I thought Progressives were united in their disdain for Holocaust denial  oberliner   Sep-06-09 09:51 PM   #150 
                             - how do those other quotes in any way minimize the quotes Oberliner cited?  shira   Sep-01-09 06:09 AM   #35 
                             - Perhaps because it's the most glaringly nasty quote...  LeftishBrit   Sep-01-09 12:50 PM   #41 
                                - My point exactly  azurnoir   Sep-01-09 01:31 PM   #42 
                                   - I would say that the one who really chose the lowest point...  LeftishBrit   Sep-01-09 01:44 PM   #46 
                                   - I would say both did the former by saying it and the latter  azurnoir   Sep-01-09 02:13 PM   #50 
                                      - Can you give me a better idea of what (if anything) is newsworthy about this story?  oberliner   Sep-01-09 05:02 PM   #57 
                                         - I would take away that UNRWA perhaps means well but is  azurnoir   Sep-02-09 01:23 AM   #66 
                                            - Historical fact makes you "Uncomfortable"  Kurska   Sep-02-09 11:01 AM   #72 
                                               - Is that what I said? Was that the question?  azurnoir   Sep-02-09 11:19 AM   #73 
                                               - "mistaken to add the Holocaust to the curriculum in it's Gaza schools at this juncture in time as it  Kurska   Sep-02-09 11:34 AM   #74 
                                   - lol. coming from you this whole exchange is most amusing  cali   Sep-07-09 06:20 AM   #154 
        - He said teaching the Holocaust would be "marketing a lie".  Ken Burch   Sep-03-09 04:34 AM   #80 
  - Ummm, this is not a shocker to me. Not sure you know this, they don't like Jews  Ioo   Aug-31-09 11:02 AM   #6 
  - Looks like everybody is busy re-writing history there -  RaleighNCDUer   Aug-31-09 11:26 AM   #7 
  - Battle of Gaza, June 2007  oberliner   Aug-31-09 11:31 AM   #8 
     - From the link you yourself provided -  RaleighNCDUer   Aug-31-09 11:53 AM   #10 
        - Yes, the Vanity Fair article does present that hypothesis  oberliner   Aug-31-09 01:17 PM   #11 
           - Just saying that both sides are re-writing history in a way that suits  RaleighNCDUer   Aug-31-09 01:39 PM   #12 
              - I don't think that claiming that Hamas seized control of Gaza is rewriting history  oberliner   Aug-31-09 02:47 PM   #14 
                 - No  shaayecanaan   Aug-31-09 06:30 PM   #18 
                    - Are you denying that there was a unity goverment prior to the events of June, 2007?  oberliner   Aug-31-09 10:46 PM   #22 
                       - I'll concede the point...  shaayecanaan   Sep-01-09 06:31 PM   #58 
                          - The whole thing was an ugly mess for all concerned  oberliner   Sep-01-09 09:13 PM   #61 
                          - I don't think it matters...  shaayecanaan   Sep-01-09 09:44 PM   #62 
                          - not really...fatah was in charge of security...that means..  pelsar   Sep-07-09 11:29 AM   #159 
  - 'Civil disobedience if Nakba dropped'  bemildred   Aug-31-09 06:51 PM   #19 
  - What's you're point?  aranthus   Aug-31-09 08:38 PM   #20 
  - Education Ministry approves text referring to 1948 as 'Nakba'  bemildred   Aug-31-09 11:42 PM   #24 
     - That was two years ago, and now the government is trying to reverse the mistake.  aranthus   Sep-01-09 12:38 PM   #39 
        - I know it was two years ago, I was supporting the fact that the matter remains in dispute.  bemildred   Sep-01-09 02:08 PM   #49 
           - It's not reasonably in dispute. n/t  aranthus   Sep-01-09 02:44 PM   #52 
              - According to whom?  bemildred   Sep-01-09 07:22 PM   #59 
                 - According to me of course.  aranthus   Sep-02-09 01:15 AM   #64 
  - I understand where you are coming from, but Nakba and Holocaust denial aren't equivalent.  Kurska   Aug-31-09 11:31 PM   #23 
     - I'm not saying they are equivalent.  bemildred   Aug-31-09 11:55 PM   #25 
     - This article isn't about "desires to use terms other then holocaust' it is about holocaust denial.  Kurska   Sep-01-09 12:16 AM   #27 
        - The OP wanders around quite a bit actually.  bemildred   Sep-01-09 12:25 AM   #28 
           - Fair enough, I see no evil in what you're doing.  Kurska   Sep-01-09 12:30 AM   #29 
              - 'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;  bemildred   Sep-01-09 12:34 AM   #30 
                 - Haha exactly my thoughts.  Kurska   Sep-01-09 12:40 AM   #31 
                 - I do see your point, but  aranthus   Sep-01-09 12:31 PM   #38 
                    - And I think you are wrong.  bemildred   Sep-01-09 02:04 PM   #48 
                       - Again, I see your point, but I think that their alleged reasons are also false.  aranthus   Sep-01-09 02:42 PM   #51 
                       - And I think your alleged reasons are false.  bemildred   Sep-01-09 07:32 PM   #60 
                          - Our first duty is tho the truth.  aranthus   Sep-02-09 01:22 AM   #65 
                             - So because they continue to resist their own subjugation, they continue to deserve to be subjugated?  bemildred   Sep-03-09 10:29 AM   #81 
                                - PA leadership prefers the current situation, otherwise they'd have accepted Barak 2000 or Olmert '08  shira   Sep-04-09 06:32 AM   #99 
                                - They're resisting Israel's existence, not merely subjugation.  aranthus   Sep-19-09 06:35 PM   #164 
                       - I've read that they think their own suffering is greater, and so why claim that Jews have suffered?  Vegasaurus   Sep-01-09 03:27 PM   #53 
                          - One people's suffering does not diminish the suffering of another.  aranthus   Sep-01-09 03:29 PM   #54 
                             - No, but the level of suffering is not the same  Vegasaurus   Sep-01-09 03:31 PM   #55 
                                - True.  aranthus   Sep-01-09 04:11 PM   #56 
                                   - You mentioned Holocaust denial twice.  Ken Burch   Sep-03-09 10:52 AM   #82 
     - It's a bit more complicated than that.  aranthus   Sep-01-09 12:26 PM   #37 
  - The wingnuts in Paliestine are as crazy as the wingnuts in the USA.  applegrove   Aug-31-09 10:18 PM   #21 
  - And the wingnuts in Israel as well.  Ken Burch   Sep-03-09 11:49 AM   #84 
  - I'm always amazed at the verbal gymnastics used here....  pelsar   Sep-01-09 12:15 AM   #26 
  - Yep me too  azurnoir   Sep-01-09 01:31 AM   #32 
  - Steven Colbert says it best  shira   Sep-01-09 06:17 AM   #36 
  - It's good you recognize that n/t  azurnoir   Sep-01-09 01:32 PM   #43 
     - And sad you don't. n/t  Behind the Aegis   Sep-01-09 01:37 PM   #44 
        - Perception is quite difficult for those with tunnel vision  azurnoir   Sep-02-09 03:41 AM   #69 
           - Reality is confusing for those stuck in their own little world mired in propaganda,  Behind the Aegis   Sep-02-09 12:48 PM   #75 
  - Sounds as unlikely as a Sinn Feiner sending poems to a hardline Ulster Unionist...  LeftishBrit   Sep-01-09 01:43 PM   #45 
     - LOL well anything is possible n/t  azurnoir   Sep-01-09 01:52 PM   #47 
  - Im rather fond of the verbal gymnastics you see on this board...  shaayecanaan   Sep-02-09 02:12 AM   #68 
     - thats always a fun game....  pelsar   Sep-02-09 04:19 PM   #76 
        - Palestinian statehood  shaayecanaan   Sep-03-09 12:47 AM   #77 
        - im for two states...so?  pelsar   Sep-03-09 02:42 AM   #78 
           - "kind of like the US..."  shaayecanaan   Sep-03-09 10:58 PM   #96 
              - little correction for you  pelsar   Sep-04-09 12:09 AM   #97 
                 - a difference  shaayecanaan   Sep-05-09 10:22 AM   #140 
                    - Japanese people work and go to school on Christmas  oberliner   Sep-05-09 12:45 PM   #141 
                       - numerous public buildings are closed on Saturday, the Jewish sabbath...  shaayecanaan   Sep-06-09 04:09 AM   #146 
                          - Which Federal government buildings are closed on Saturday and not Sunday?  oberliner   Sep-06-09 06:02 AM   #147 
                             - That was not my contention...  shaayecanaan   Sep-06-09 04:54 PM   #148 
                                - Do Muslims celebrate Nowruz?  oberliner   Sep-06-09 09:28 PM   #149 
                                   - Do Chinese Buddhists in the US celebrate Christmas?  shaayecanaan   Sep-06-09 11:53 PM   #152 
                                      - I am still going to have to disagree with you  oberliner   Sep-07-09 06:36 AM   #155 
        - My favorite is people who STILL pretend  Ken Burch   Sep-03-09 11:17 AM   #83 
           - wrong again....  pelsar   Sep-04-09 09:53 AM   #106 
              - Progressive Muslim would never accept the argument that the Occupation has led to better Palestinian  Ken Burch   Sep-04-09 06:02 PM   #110 
                 - R E A D slower...it will help you understand your misconceptions  pelsar   Sep-05-09 04:31 PM   #142 
                    - Thanks for the unjustified condescention.  Ken Burch   Sep-05-09 07:19 PM   #143 
                       - lets try again....  pelsar   Sep-05-09 11:09 PM   #144 
                          - The bottom line is this:  Ken Burch   Sep-06-09 12:14 AM   #145 
                             - thats the disagreement....  pelsar   Sep-06-09 11:58 PM   #153 
                             - continued from previous post...the basic disagreement.... (153)  pelsar   Sep-07-09 06:41 AM   #156 
  - Is anyone actually surprised that Hamas would deny the Holocaust?  proteus_lives   Sep-02-09 01:01 AM   #63 
  - of course not..but that is not really the issue here....  pelsar   Sep-02-09 02:09 AM   #67 
     - Well Gaza has never been about rights not for the Israeli  azurnoir   Sep-02-09 03:45 AM   #70 
        - first a fix on my post...  pelsar   Sep-02-09 04:32 AM   #71 
  - What Al-Astal said was vile.  Ken Burch   Sep-03-09 04:33 AM   #79 
  - I fully agree with all your points here.  LeftishBrit   Sep-03-09 01:27 PM   #91 
     - Thanks.  Ken Burch   Sep-03-09 03:46 PM   #95 
  - If the Nakba is a lie to Israel, then the Holocaust is a lie to Palestinians  grassfed   Sep-03-09 11:57 AM   #85 
     - There's a whole bunch of failed logic.  Behind the Aegis   Sep-03-09 12:44 PM   #86 
     - The Holocaust is not a lie to anyone  oberliner   Sep-03-09 01:09 PM   #87 
     - not my opinion of course but reflects understandable Palestinian feelings  grassfed   Sep-03-09 01:18 PM   #88 
     - Well, thanks...  LeftishBrit   Sep-03-09 01:27 PM   #90 
        - Do not thank me.  grassfed   Sep-03-09 01:52 PM   #93 
           - I was being slightly ironic.  LeftishBrit   Sep-03-09 02:08 PM   #94 
     - As with most genocides, there are people who think the Holocaust is a lie....  Violet_Crumble   Sep-04-09 06:59 AM   #102 
        - I didn't say anything about what anyone thinks  oberliner   Sep-04-09 07:54 AM   #103 
           - The poster you replied to seemed to be...  Violet_Crumble   Sep-04-09 07:58 AM   #104 
              - Did you go to the link they provided?  oberliner   Sep-04-09 08:44 AM   #105 
                 - And yr point, if you have one?  Violet_Crumble   Sep-04-09 04:06 PM   #108 
     - The Holocaust isn't the casus belli for genocide EITHER!  LeftishBrit   Sep-03-09 01:22 PM   #89 
     - Zochrot  grassfed   Sep-03-09 01:41 PM   #92 
     - oh for fuck's sake. there is no genocide by Israel- much as sick minds  cali   Sep-04-09 02:42 AM   #98 
        - and they wonder why I/P isn't resolved with all this hyperbole and exaggerating Israel's crimes  shira   Sep-04-09 06:38 AM   #100 
           - Hold on. Yr the person who refers to settlements being dismantled as ethnic cleansing...  Violet_Crumble   Sep-04-09 06:50 AM   #101 
              - not really - i do that only to make a point against some who argue Israel's goal is ethnic cleansing  shira   Sep-04-09 12:04 PM   #107 
                 - You definately refer to the removal of settlers as ethnic cleansing...  Violet_Crumble   Sep-04-09 04:11 PM   #109 
                 - again - read carefully - i did say that but only to make a point against those claiming Israel ....  shira   Sep-04-09 06:50 PM   #111 
                    - oh, and furthermore - what would you call it if Palestinians were to do the same as Jews in Gaza '05  shira   Sep-04-09 08:03 PM   #113 
                    - So you admit that removing "settlers" from the OPT is not ethnic cleansing?  bemildred   Sep-04-09 08:09 PM   #114 
                       - right - it's not ethnic cleansing  shira   Sep-04-09 08:16 PM   #115 
                          - Always a pleasure when we can agree.  bemildred   Sep-04-09 08:21 PM   #117 
                             - actually, Shaktimaan makes a compelling argument that it is ethnic cleansing  shira   Sep-05-09 12:46 AM   #130 
                                - Ah, so ethnic cleansing is OK.  bemildred   Sep-05-09 08:15 AM   #136 
                                   - is that what you get out of that? that it's okay? sheesh.  shira   Sep-05-09 08:20 AM   #137 
                                      - That is what he says.  bemildred   Sep-05-09 08:31 AM   #138 
                                         - fair enough...  shira   Sep-05-09 08:36 AM   #139 
                    - That's really pathetic, Shira. Do you mean anything you post in this forum?  Violet_Crumble   Sep-04-09 10:25 PM   #118 
                       - so just ask anytime you're not sure - unlike many here, i'm not ashamed of my views  shira   Sep-04-09 10:31 PM   #119 
                       - How about you try being honest about what yr views are?  Violet_Crumble   Sep-04-09 10:40 PM   #120 
                          - i'm always willing to explain my views on I/P to those who wish to know them - why not you?  shira   Sep-04-09 10:43 PM   #121 
                             - But you just told everyone you say things you don't mean...  Violet_Crumble   Sep-04-09 11:07 PM   #123 
                                - you're twisting what i mean, why do you that?  shira   Sep-04-09 11:11 PM   #124 
                                   - Not at all, You stated a view you claim now you don't hold..  Violet_Crumble   Sep-04-09 11:15 PM   #127 
                                      - i really don't care what you believe about me - i'm open to questions on my views, you're not  shira   Sep-05-09 12:12 AM   #129 
                                         - changed my mind, Violet  shira   Sep-05-09 12:47 AM   #131 
                                         - You do that changing yr mind thing a lot, it appears...  Violet_Crumble   Sep-05-09 01:06 AM   #133 
                                         - Question  Lithos   Sep-06-09 10:46 PM   #151 
                                            - it's ethnic cleansing - whether legal or illegal / moral or immoral / voluntary or not  shira   Sep-07-09 06:53 AM   #157 
                                               - That wasn't the question  Lithos   Sep-07-09 11:21 AM   #158 
                                               - i don't make any such distinction - but that's my opinion  shira   Sep-07-09 06:31 PM   #160 
                                               - Don't follow that Palestinians in E. Jerusalem are squatters  Lithos   Sep-07-09 07:36 PM   #161 
                                               - how about the Palestinians who moved into E.Jerusalem after 1948  shira   Sep-07-09 10:28 PM   #162 
                                               - Two points  Lithos   Sep-07-09 10:51 PM   #163 
                                         - And I keep on asking how anyone's supposed to know whether you mean what you say or not...  Violet_Crumble   Sep-05-09 01:05 AM   #132 
                                            - sigh, now we're done - you're just spamming ad hominems and you're boring  shira   Sep-05-09 01:11 AM   #134 
                                               - We were done the moment you flung around nasty attacks on me...  Violet_Crumble   Sep-05-09 01:24 AM   #135 
                       - Jews are not a race?  oberliner   Sep-04-09 10:47 PM   #122 
                          - I don't really care what you do...  Violet_Crumble   Sep-04-09 11:11 PM   #125 
                             - Sorry I should rephrase  oberliner   Sep-04-09 11:13 PM   #126 
                                - That's okay. I knew what you were getting at...  Violet_Crumble   Sep-04-09 11:18 PM   #128 
                 - bullshit - you've tried to make that point in deadly earnest nt.  shaayecanaan   Sep-04-09 07:46 PM   #112 
                    - well, i don't think it's ethnic cleansing - but I'm curious what you'd call it if Palestinians did  shira   Sep-04-09 08:18 PM   #116 
 

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