You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Reply #11: Yes, the Vanity Fair article does present that hypothesis [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread		 This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU
oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Yes, the Vanity Fair article does present that hypothesis
In any case, Hamas got the most seats in the legislative elections, but that did not impact the fact that Abbas was still President or that Fatah also won some seats.

Hamas didn't retain control of Gaza, because they didn't have "control" of Gaza, per se, just the most seats in the legislature. After the Battle of Gaza (which may or may not have been inspired by what was described in the Vanity Fair article), Gaza became a separate political entity from the West Bank with new leadership being named by Hamas.

But, all that aside, are you really suggesting that there is some similarity between a person claiming that "Hamas sezied control of Gaza in 2007" and a person claiming that the Holocaust was a "lie invented by the Zionists"?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
  -Hamas leader denies Nazi genocide of Jews Dr_Willie_Feelgood  Aug-31-09 10:42 AM   #0 
  - Wait. Is he denying the Holocaust or rejecting a specific demand to put it in a curriculum?  Recursion   Aug-31-09 10:45 AM   #1 
  - Both  Dr_Willie_Feelgood   Aug-31-09 10:48 AM   #2 
     - I still don't know what he's saying  Recursion   Aug-31-09 10:50 AM   #3 
        - Sound like denial to me - "so-called Holocaust"  Dr_Willie_Feelgood   Aug-31-09 10:56 AM   #4 
        - *shrug* I'm not going to break my back defending Hamas  Recursion   Aug-31-09 10:58 AM   #5 
           - The letter said that the Holocaust was a "lie invented by the Zionists"  oberliner   Aug-31-09 11:35 AM   #9 
              - Is that the quote? because on my reading of the article  azurnoir   Aug-31-09 02:07 PM   #13 
                 - Yes, that is the quote  oberliner   Aug-31-09 02:50 PM   #15 
                    - But that isn't the quote is it? In fact the quote backs up this  azurnoir   Aug-31-09 03:27 PM   #16 
                       - Yes that is the quote  oberliner   Aug-31-09 03:38 PM   #17 
                          - You choose that quote to the exclusion of all other the quotes  azurnoir   Sep-01-09 01:37 AM   #33 
                             - That is the quote that I find most egregiously repugnant  oberliner   Sep-01-09 05:47 AM   #34 
                             - Ah so now your the gatekeeper of how a "Progressive" should feel?  azurnoir   Sep-01-09 12:48 PM   #40 
                                - I thought Progressives were united in their disdain for Holocaust denial  oberliner   Sep-06-09 09:51 PM   #150 
                             - how do those other quotes in any way minimize the quotes Oberliner cited?  shira   Sep-01-09 06:09 AM   #35 
                             - Perhaps because it's the most glaringly nasty quote...  LeftishBrit   Sep-01-09 12:50 PM   #41 
                                - My point exactly  azurnoir   Sep-01-09 01:31 PM   #42 
                                   - I would say that the one who really chose the lowest point...  LeftishBrit   Sep-01-09 01:44 PM   #46 
                                   - I would say both did the former by saying it and the latter  azurnoir   Sep-01-09 02:13 PM   #50 
                                      - Can you give me a better idea of what (if anything) is newsworthy about this story?  oberliner   Sep-01-09 05:02 PM   #57 
                                         - I would take away that UNRWA perhaps means well but is  azurnoir   Sep-02-09 01:23 AM   #66 
                                            - Historical fact makes you "Uncomfortable"  Kurska   Sep-02-09 11:01 AM   #72 
                                               - Is that what I said? Was that the question?  azurnoir   Sep-02-09 11:19 AM   #73 
                                               - "mistaken to add the Holocaust to the curriculum in it's Gaza schools at this juncture in time as it  Kurska   Sep-02-09 11:34 AM   #74 
                                   - lol. coming from you this whole exchange is most amusing  cali   Sep-07-09 06:20 AM   #154 
        - He said teaching the Holocaust would be "marketing a lie".  Ken Burch   Sep-03-09 04:34 AM   #80 
  - Ummm, this is not a shocker to me. Not sure you know this, they don't like Jews  Ioo   Aug-31-09 11:02 AM   #6 
  - Looks like everybody is busy re-writing history there -  RaleighNCDUer   Aug-31-09 11:26 AM   #7 
  - Battle of Gaza, June 2007  oberliner   Aug-31-09 11:31 AM   #8 
     - From the link you yourself provided -  RaleighNCDUer   Aug-31-09 11:53 AM   #10 
        - Yes, the Vanity Fair article does present that hypothesis  oberliner   Aug-31-09 01:17 PM   #11 
           - Just saying that both sides are re-writing history in a way that suits  RaleighNCDUer   Aug-31-09 01:39 PM   #12 
              - I don't think that claiming that Hamas seized control of Gaza is rewriting history  oberliner   Aug-31-09 02:47 PM   #14 
                 - No  shaayecanaan   Aug-31-09 06:30 PM   #18 
                    - Are you denying that there was a unity goverment prior to the events of June, 2007?  oberliner   Aug-31-09 10:46 PM   #22 
                       - I'll concede the point...  shaayecanaan   Sep-01-09 06:31 PM   #58 
                          - The whole thing was an ugly mess for all concerned  oberliner   Sep-01-09 09:13 PM   #61 
                          - I don't think it matters...  shaayecanaan   Sep-01-09 09:44 PM   #62 
                          - not really...fatah was in charge of security...that means..  pelsar   Sep-07-09 11:29 AM   #159 
  - 'Civil disobedience if Nakba dropped'  bemildred   Aug-31-09 06:51 PM   #19 
  - What's you're point?  aranthus   Aug-31-09 08:38 PM   #20 
  - Education Ministry approves text referring to 1948 as 'Nakba'  bemildred   Aug-31-09 11:42 PM   #24 
     - That was two years ago, and now the government is trying to reverse the mistake.  aranthus   Sep-01-09 12:38 PM   #39 
        - I know it was two years ago, I was supporting the fact that the matter remains in dispute.  bemildred   Sep-01-09 02:08 PM   #49 
           - It's not reasonably in dispute. n/t  aranthus   Sep-01-09 02:44 PM   #52 
              - According to whom?  bemildred   Sep-01-09 07:22 PM   #59 
                 - According to me of course.  aranthus   Sep-02-09 01:15 AM   #64 
  - I understand where you are coming from, but Nakba and Holocaust denial aren't equivalent.  Kurska   Aug-31-09 11:31 PM   #23 
     - I'm not saying they are equivalent.  bemildred   Aug-31-09 11:55 PM   #25 
     - This article isn't about "desires to use terms other then holocaust' it is about holocaust denial.  Kurska   Sep-01-09 12:16 AM   #27 
        - The OP wanders around quite a bit actually.  bemildred   Sep-01-09 12:25 AM   #28 
           - Fair enough, I see no evil in what you're doing.  Kurska   Sep-01-09 12:30 AM   #29 
              - 'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;  bemildred   Sep-01-09 12:34 AM   #30 
                 - Haha exactly my thoughts.  Kurska   Sep-01-09 12:40 AM   #31 
                 - I do see your point, but  aranthus   Sep-01-09 12:31 PM   #38 
                    - And I think you are wrong.  bemildred   Sep-01-09 02:04 PM   #48 
                       - Again, I see your point, but I think that their alleged reasons are also false.  aranthus   Sep-01-09 02:42 PM   #51 
                       - And I think your alleged reasons are false.  bemildred   Sep-01-09 07:32 PM   #60 
                          - Our first duty is tho the truth.  aranthus   Sep-02-09 01:22 AM   #65 
                             - So because they continue to resist their own subjugation, they continue to deserve to be subjugated?  bemildred   Sep-03-09 10:29 AM   #81 
                                - PA leadership prefers the current situation, otherwise they'd have accepted Barak 2000 or Olmert '08  shira   Sep-04-09 06:32 AM   #99 
                                - They're resisting Israel's existence, not merely subjugation.  aranthus   Sep-19-09 06:35 PM   #164 
                       - I've read that they think their own suffering is greater, and so why claim that Jews have suffered?  Vegasaurus   Sep-01-09 03:27 PM   #53 
                          - One people's suffering does not diminish the suffering of another.  aranthus   Sep-01-09 03:29 PM   #54 
                             - No, but the level of suffering is not the same  Vegasaurus   Sep-01-09 03:31 PM   #55 
                                - True.  aranthus   Sep-01-09 04:11 PM   #56 
                                   - You mentioned Holocaust denial twice.  Ken Burch   Sep-03-09 10:52 AM   #82 
     - It's a bit more complicated than that.  aranthus   Sep-01-09 12:26 PM   #37 
  - The wingnuts in Paliestine are as crazy as the wingnuts in the USA.  applegrove   Aug-31-09 10:18 PM   #21 
  - And the wingnuts in Israel as well.  Ken Burch   Sep-03-09 11:49 AM   #84 
  - I'm always amazed at the verbal gymnastics used here....  pelsar   Sep-01-09 12:15 AM   #26 
  - Yep me too  azurnoir   Sep-01-09 01:31 AM   #32 
  - Steven Colbert says it best  shira   Sep-01-09 06:17 AM   #36 
  - It's good you recognize that n/t  azurnoir   Sep-01-09 01:32 PM   #43 
     - And sad you don't. n/t  Behind the Aegis   Sep-01-09 01:37 PM   #44 
        - Perception is quite difficult for those with tunnel vision  azurnoir   Sep-02-09 03:41 AM   #69 
           - Reality is confusing for those stuck in their own little world mired in propaganda,  Behind the Aegis   Sep-02-09 12:48 PM   #75 
  - Sounds as unlikely as a Sinn Feiner sending poems to a hardline Ulster Unionist...  LeftishBrit   Sep-01-09 01:43 PM   #45 
     - LOL well anything is possible n/t  azurnoir   Sep-01-09 01:52 PM   #47 
  - Im rather fond of the verbal gymnastics you see on this board...  shaayecanaan   Sep-02-09 02:12 AM   #68 
     - thats always a fun game....  pelsar   Sep-02-09 04:19 PM   #76 
        - Palestinian statehood  shaayecanaan   Sep-03-09 12:47 AM   #77 
        - im for two states...so?  pelsar   Sep-03-09 02:42 AM   #78 
           - "kind of like the US..."  shaayecanaan   Sep-03-09 10:58 PM   #96 
              - little correction for you  pelsar   Sep-04-09 12:09 AM   #97 
                 - a difference  shaayecanaan   Sep-05-09 10:22 AM   #140 
                    - Japanese people work and go to school on Christmas  oberliner   Sep-05-09 12:45 PM   #141 
                       - numerous public buildings are closed on Saturday, the Jewish sabbath...  shaayecanaan   Sep-06-09 04:09 AM   #146 
                          - Which Federal government buildings are closed on Saturday and not Sunday?  oberliner   Sep-06-09 06:02 AM   #147 
                             - That was not my contention...  shaayecanaan   Sep-06-09 04:54 PM   #148 
                                - Do Muslims celebrate Nowruz?  oberliner   Sep-06-09 09:28 PM   #149 
                                   - Do Chinese Buddhists in the US celebrate Christmas?  shaayecanaan   Sep-06-09 11:53 PM   #152 
                                      - I am still going to have to disagree with you  oberliner   Sep-07-09 06:36 AM   #155 
        - My favorite is people who STILL pretend  Ken Burch   Sep-03-09 11:17 AM   #83 
           - wrong again....  pelsar   Sep-04-09 09:53 AM   #106 
              - Progressive Muslim would never accept the argument that the Occupation has led to better Palestinian  Ken Burch   Sep-04-09 06:02 PM   #110 
                 - R E A D slower...it will help you understand your misconceptions  pelsar   Sep-05-09 04:31 PM   #142 
                    - Thanks for the unjustified condescention.  Ken Burch   Sep-05-09 07:19 PM   #143 
                       - lets try again....  pelsar   Sep-05-09 11:09 PM   #144 
                          - The bottom line is this:  Ken Burch   Sep-06-09 12:14 AM   #145 
                             - thats the disagreement....  pelsar   Sep-06-09 11:58 PM   #153 
                             - continued from previous post...the basic disagreement.... (153)  pelsar   Sep-07-09 06:41 AM   #156 
  - Is anyone actually surprised that Hamas would deny the Holocaust?  proteus_lives   Sep-02-09 01:01 AM   #63 
  - of course not..but that is not really the issue here....  pelsar   Sep-02-09 02:09 AM   #67 
     - Well Gaza has never been about rights not for the Israeli  azurnoir   Sep-02-09 03:45 AM   #70 
        - first a fix on my post...  pelsar   Sep-02-09 04:32 AM   #71 
  - What Al-Astal said was vile.  Ken Burch   Sep-03-09 04:33 AM   #79 
  - I fully agree with all your points here.  LeftishBrit   Sep-03-09 01:27 PM   #91 
     - Thanks.  Ken Burch   Sep-03-09 03:46 PM   #95 
  - If the Nakba is a lie to Israel, then the Holocaust is a lie to Palestinians  grassfed   Sep-03-09 11:57 AM   #85 
     - There's a whole bunch of failed logic.  Behind the Aegis   Sep-03-09 12:44 PM   #86 
     - The Holocaust is not a lie to anyone  oberliner   Sep-03-09 01:09 PM   #87 
     - not my opinion of course but reflects understandable Palestinian feelings  grassfed   Sep-03-09 01:18 PM   #88 
     - Well, thanks...  LeftishBrit   Sep-03-09 01:27 PM   #90 
        - Do not thank me.  grassfed   Sep-03-09 01:52 PM   #93 
           - I was being slightly ironic.  LeftishBrit   Sep-03-09 02:08 PM   #94 
     - As with most genocides, there are people who think the Holocaust is a lie....  Violet_Crumble   Sep-04-09 06:59 AM   #102 
        - I didn't say anything about what anyone thinks  oberliner   Sep-04-09 07:54 AM   #103 
           - The poster you replied to seemed to be...  Violet_Crumble   Sep-04-09 07:58 AM   #104 
              - Did you go to the link they provided?  oberliner   Sep-04-09 08:44 AM   #105 
                 - And yr point, if you have one?  Violet_Crumble   Sep-04-09 04:06 PM   #108 
     - The Holocaust isn't the casus belli for genocide EITHER!  LeftishBrit   Sep-03-09 01:22 PM   #89 
     - Zochrot  grassfed   Sep-03-09 01:41 PM   #92 
     - oh for fuck's sake. there is no genocide by Israel- much as sick minds  cali   Sep-04-09 02:42 AM   #98 
        - and they wonder why I/P isn't resolved with all this hyperbole and exaggerating Israel's crimes  shira   Sep-04-09 06:38 AM   #100 
           - Hold on. Yr the person who refers to settlements being dismantled as ethnic cleansing...  Violet_Crumble   Sep-04-09 06:50 AM   #101 
              - not really - i do that only to make a point against some who argue Israel's goal is ethnic cleansing  shira   Sep-04-09 12:04 PM   #107 
                 - You definately refer to the removal of settlers as ethnic cleansing...  Violet_Crumble   Sep-04-09 04:11 PM   #109 
                 - again - read carefully - i did say that but only to make a point against those claiming Israel ....  shira   Sep-04-09 06:50 PM   #111 
                    - oh, and furthermore - what would you call it if Palestinians were to do the same as Jews in Gaza '05  shira   Sep-04-09 08:03 PM   #113 
                    - So you admit that removing "settlers" from the OPT is not ethnic cleansing?  bemildred   Sep-04-09 08:09 PM   #114 
                       - right - it's not ethnic cleansing  shira   Sep-04-09 08:16 PM   #115 
                          - Always a pleasure when we can agree.  bemildred   Sep-04-09 08:21 PM   #117 
                             - actually, Shaktimaan makes a compelling argument that it is ethnic cleansing  shira   Sep-05-09 12:46 AM   #130 
                                - Ah, so ethnic cleansing is OK.  bemildred   Sep-05-09 08:15 AM   #136 
                                   - is that what you get out of that? that it's okay? sheesh.  shira   Sep-05-09 08:20 AM   #137 
                                      - That is what he says.  bemildred   Sep-05-09 08:31 AM   #138 
                                         - fair enough...  shira   Sep-05-09 08:36 AM   #139 
                    - That's really pathetic, Shira. Do you mean anything you post in this forum?  Violet_Crumble   Sep-04-09 10:25 PM   #118 
                       - so just ask anytime you're not sure - unlike many here, i'm not ashamed of my views  shira   Sep-04-09 10:31 PM   #119 
                       - How about you try being honest about what yr views are?  Violet_Crumble   Sep-04-09 10:40 PM   #120 
                          - i'm always willing to explain my views on I/P to those who wish to know them - why not you?  shira   Sep-04-09 10:43 PM   #121 
                             - But you just told everyone you say things you don't mean...  Violet_Crumble   Sep-04-09 11:07 PM   #123 
                                - you're twisting what i mean, why do you that?  shira   Sep-04-09 11:11 PM   #124 
                                   - Not at all, You stated a view you claim now you don't hold..  Violet_Crumble   Sep-04-09 11:15 PM   #127 
                                      - i really don't care what you believe about me - i'm open to questions on my views, you're not  shira   Sep-05-09 12:12 AM   #129 
                                         - changed my mind, Violet  shira   Sep-05-09 12:47 AM   #131 
                                         - You do that changing yr mind thing a lot, it appears...  Violet_Crumble   Sep-05-09 01:06 AM   #133 
                                         - Question  Lithos   Sep-06-09 10:46 PM   #151 
                                            - it's ethnic cleansing - whether legal or illegal / moral or immoral / voluntary or not  shira   Sep-07-09 06:53 AM   #157 
                                               - That wasn't the question  Lithos   Sep-07-09 11:21 AM   #158 
                                               - i don't make any such distinction - but that's my opinion  shira   Sep-07-09 06:31 PM   #160 
                                               - Don't follow that Palestinians in E. Jerusalem are squatters  Lithos   Sep-07-09 07:36 PM   #161 
                                               - how about the Palestinians who moved into E.Jerusalem after 1948  shira   Sep-07-09 10:28 PM   #162 
                                               - Two points  Lithos   Sep-07-09 10:51 PM   #163 
                                         - And I keep on asking how anyone's supposed to know whether you mean what you say or not...  Violet_Crumble   Sep-05-09 01:05 AM   #132 
                                            - sigh, now we're done - you're just spamming ad hominems and you're boring  shira   Sep-05-09 01:11 AM   #134 
                                               - We were done the moment you flung around nasty attacks on me...  Violet_Crumble   Sep-05-09 01:24 AM   #135 
                       - Jews are not a race?  oberliner   Sep-04-09 10:47 PM   #122 
                          - I don't really care what you do...  Violet_Crumble   Sep-04-09 11:11 PM   #125 
                             - Sorry I should rephrase  oberliner   Sep-04-09 11:13 PM   #126 
                                - That's okay. I knew what you were getting at...  Violet_Crumble   Sep-04-09 11:18 PM   #128 
                 - bullshit - you've tried to make that point in deadly earnest nt.  shaayecanaan   Sep-04-09 07:46 PM   #112 
                    - well, i don't think it's ethnic cleansing - but I'm curious what you'd call it if Palestinians did  shira   Sep-04-09 08:18 PM   #116 
 

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators

Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC