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Reply #87: To Israel's existence. [View All]

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aranthus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #75
87. To Israel's existence.
Edited on Thu Aug-14-08 05:26 PM by aranthus
What the Arabs decided is to start a war to detroy the future Israeli state and take all of Palestine for themselves. You also need to read some history other than that rewritten by the Arabs and the far Left. The truth is far different.

First to leave were roughly 30,000 wealthy Arabs who anticipated the upcoming war and fled to neighboring Arab countries to await its end. Less affluent Arabs from the mixed cities of Palestine moved to all-Arab towns to stay with relatives or friends. Joseph Schechtman, The Refugee in the World, (NY: A.S. Barnes and Co., 1963), p. 184.

Time Magazine reported on the battle for Haifa (May 3, 1948) by saying: "The mass evacuation, prompted partly by fear, partly by orders of Arab leaders, left the Arab quarter of Haifa a ghost city....By withdrawing Arab workers their leaders hoped to paralyze Haifa."

Benny Morris, one of the Israeli "New Historians" who documented instances where Palestinians were expelled, also found that Arab leaders encouraged their people to leave. The Arab National Committee in Jerusalem, following the March 8, 1948, instructions of the Arab Higher Committee, ordered women, children and the elderly in various parts of Jerusalem to leave their homes: "Any opposition to this order...is an obstacle to the holy war...and will hamper the operations of the fighters in these districts" (Middle Eastern Studies, January 1986).

Morris also said that in early May units of the Arab Legion reportedly ordered the evacuation of all women and children from the town of Beisan. The Arab Liberation Army was also reported to have ordered the evacuation of another village south of Haifa. The departure of the women and children, Morris says, "tended to sap the morale of the menfolk who were left behind to guard the homes and fields, contributing ultimately to the final evacuation of villages. Such two-tier evacuation —— women and children first, the men following weeks later —— occurred in Qumiya in the Jezreel Valley, among the Awarna bedouin in Haifa Bay and in various other places."

The Secretary of the Arab League Office in London, Edward Atiyah, wrote in his book, The Arabs: "This wholesale exodus was due partly to the belief of the Arabs, encouraged by the boastings of an unrealistic Arabic press and the irresponsible utterances of some of the Arab leaders that it could be only a matter of weeks before the Jews were defeated by the armies of the Arab States and the Palestinian Arabs enabled to re ?enter and retake possession of their country." Edward Atiyah, The Arabs, (London: Penguin Books, 1955), p. 183.


In his memoirs, Haled al Azm, the Syrian Prime Minister in 1948-49, also admitted the Arab role in persuading the refugees to leave:

““Since 1948 we have been demanding the return of the refugees to their homes. But we ourselves are the ones who encouraged them to leave. Only a few months separated our call to them to leave and our appeal to the United Nations to resolve on their return.”” The Memoirs of Haled al Azm, (Beirut, 1973), Part 1, pp. 386-387.

"The Arab States encouraged the Palestine Arabs to leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion armies," Filastin (February 19, 1949) (published in Jordan).

"The Arab government told us: Get out so that we can get in. So we got out, but they did not get in." A refugee quoted in Ad Difaa (September 6, 1954).
There is much more where this came from.

40-60 thousand Arabs left of their own accord. Some (20-30 thousand) were forcibly moved. The rest (most of them) ran from battles and war zones.

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  -Palestinians doubt two-state deal subsuelo  Aug-11-08 07:59 AM   #0 
  - Two-state is already dead  subsuelo   Aug-11-08 08:00 AM   #1 
  - Single state  sabbat hunter   Aug-11-08 08:45 AM   #3 
  - And very likely that many Palestinians are dead, too.  LeftishBrit   Aug-11-08 08:50 AM   #4 
  - My position is just one step beyond that statement.  subsuelo   Aug-11-08 10:05 AM   #9 
     - I don't see how they have prevented a two-state solution  LeftishBrit   Aug-11-08 10:21 AM   #13 
        - Would you not agree then ...  subsuelo   Aug-11-08 01:37 PM   #23 
           - I think it will become more difficult  LeftishBrit   Aug-11-08 01:48 PM   #24 
  - Not if the Jews maintain political power. How about this solution?  wurzel   Aug-11-08 10:01 AM   #8 
     - Diaspora or Jim Crow?  azurnoir   Aug-11-08 12:14 PM   #14 
     - Do you have a better solution?  wurzel   Aug-11-08 12:53 PM   #17 
     - You think the Palestinians would accept that?  LeftishBrit   Aug-11-08 12:34 PM   #16 
     - Do they have a choice?  wurzel   Aug-11-08 09:33 PM   #29 
        - Lebanon II?  pelsar   Aug-12-08 12:40 PM   #39 
     - Would that be acceptable for  ProgressiveMuslim   Aug-12-08 05:51 AM   #32 
        - I don't know what you mean by "latecomers to the land".  wurzel   Aug-12-08 02:42 PM   #40 
        - Exactly. Would shipping them all elsewhere be an option?  ProgressiveMuslim   Aug-13-08 09:26 AM   #50 
           - You have no argument from me on that. If it was possible.  wurzel   Aug-13-08 02:22 PM   #57 
           - So you support ethnic cleansing of Jews?  Behind the Aegis   Aug-13-08 02:31 PM   #58 
           - No. I support giving Palestine back to the Palestinians.  wurzel   Aug-14-08 09:10 AM   #72 
              - So you support a "limited" ethnic cleansing?  Behind the Aegis   Aug-14-08 01:38 PM   #80 
              - Deleted message  Name removed   Aug-14-08 02:34 PM   #81 
           - Wow.  Vegasaurus   Aug-13-08 04:42 PM   #60 
           - Post 8 *did* suggest (possibly voluntary, but still..) ethnic cleansing of Arabs  LeftishBrit   Aug-13-08 05:45 PM   #65 
           - The "ethnic cleansing of Arabs" has already occurred.  wurzel   Aug-14-08 09:17 AM   #73 
              - Israel even dump sewage on them n/t  subsuelo   Aug-14-08 10:47 AM   #78 
              - Israel dumps sewage on them?  oberliner   Aug-14-08 04:42 PM   #84 
              - There are over a million Arabs living in Israel nt  oberliner   Aug-14-08 04:30 PM   #83 
              - Already occurred? Then how come the percentage of Israeli Arabs in the population is INCREASING?  LeftishBrit   Aug-14-08 04:51 PM   #85 
           - talking,..? Israel has done it.  number6   Aug-13-08 08:35 PM   #67 
           - What a load of propaganda BULLSHIT.  Behind the Aegis   Aug-13-08 11:58 PM   #69 
              - you know its not "propaganda BULLSHIT"  number6   Aug-18-08 05:50 PM   #126 
                 - Oh but it is.  Behind the Aegis   Aug-19-08 02:36 PM   #130 
           - Rules?? Did you actually read your own post?  wurzel   Aug-14-08 09:24 AM   #74 
           - You think that the Jews should be shipped elsewhere?  oberliner   Aug-14-08 09:59 AM   #76 
           - Shipping the Jews elsewhere?  oberliner   Aug-14-08 10:00 AM   #77 
              - I find this disturbing on so many levels  Vegasaurus   Aug-14-08 02:36 PM   #82 
        - Not acceptable for either group, so back to the drawing board, I'd say!  LeftishBrit   Aug-13-08 05:48 PM   #66 
  - Can you describe what this single state ought to look like in your opinion?  oberliner   Aug-11-08 08:59 AM   #5 
  - No, I really can't  subsuelo   Aug-11-08 10:00 AM   #7 
     - Hate to break it to you, Subsuelo  Vegasaurus   Aug-11-08 01:16 PM   #18 
     - Did you read a single word I wrote?  subsuelo   Aug-11-08 01:30 PM   #21 
        - Every word  Vegasaurus   Aug-11-08 07:46 PM   #27 
     - Here is my response as to what we ought to be focused on  oberliner   Aug-11-08 05:39 PM   #25 
     - Great post! ITA!  LeftishBrit   Aug-12-08 02:31 AM   #31 
     - oberliner, there was a time I would have agreed wholeheartedly  subsuelo   Aug-12-08 11:36 AM   #36 
     - I still would like to know what your dream or vision is  oberliner   Aug-12-08 03:23 PM   #41 
        - Full return to 67 borders and 2 state plan worked out  subsuelo   Aug-12-08 08:12 PM   #42 
     - What is is about Israeli behavior that gives you such a hope?  wurzel   Aug-18-08 11:04 AM   #119 
     - How so?  Dick Dastardly   Aug-11-08 08:02 PM   #28 
     - Israel controls far more than 3% of the West Bank...  Violet_Crumble   Aug-12-08 07:50 AM   #34 
     - At last a voice of reason. I was beginning to despair.  wurzel   Aug-15-08 05:29 PM   #95 
        - Oh, so the Palestinians are like Holocaust survivors, is that what you are saying?  Vegasaurus   Aug-16-08 06:45 AM   #96 
           - It is not "history" to me.  wurzel   Aug-16-08 03:25 PM   #103 
              - You said "Jews AFTER WW II"  Vegasaurus   Aug-16-08 03:51 PM   #104 
                 - Can you read? Why are you so hysterical?  wurzel   Aug-16-08 06:25 PM   #108 
                    - Ignore all you like  Vegasaurus   Aug-18-08 07:12 AM   #117 
  - I know this is your favorite meme  Vegasaurus   Aug-11-08 09:13 AM   #6 
  - I'm not "calling for" anything.  subsuelo   Aug-11-08 10:06 AM   #10 
  - You haven't answered the questions  Vegasaurus   Aug-11-08 10:16 AM   #11 
  - What you are asking is what we should all be asking  subsuelo   Aug-11-08 10:17 AM   #12 
     - To half the people that matter, it's a non-question  Vegasaurus   Aug-11-08 01:23 PM   #19 
        - Then why keep stealing more and more from the Palestinians?  subsuelo   Aug-11-08 01:30 PM   #20 
        - Wow just wow  azurnoir   Aug-16-08 06:16 PM   #106 
           - Your parsing leaves much to be desired  eyl   Aug-17-08 02:17 AM   #111 
           - Try not misreading, why don't you  Vegasaurus   Aug-18-08 11:28 AM   #121 
           - And which half are you in? n/t  azurnoir   Aug-18-08 02:04 PM   #124 
           - I don't think anyone was saying that only 'half of the people matter'  LeftishBrit   Aug-18-08 12:06 PM   #123 
  - your opinion is not reality. Why so many people can't grasp that  cali   Aug-11-08 06:28 PM   #26 
     - No, I am stating the reality.  subsuelo   Aug-12-08 11:29 AM   #35 
        - Yes, there is one Jewish state  Vegasaurus   Aug-12-08 12:00 PM   #37 
  - The destruction of Israel  azurnoir   Aug-11-08 12:29 PM   #15 
     - It's great fun to try to compare your "apartheids"  Vegasaurus   Aug-11-08 01:32 PM   #22 
        - LOL I missed this gem  azurnoir   Aug-12-08 09:34 PM   #43 
           - There are 4.5 million Palestinian refugees  Vegasaurus   Aug-13-08 07:53 AM   #48 
              - Here is one Palestinian refugee that understands some of the  Phx_Dem   Aug-13-08 10:01 AM   #51 
              - So now we're back to they're all Arabs so what's the  azurnoir   Aug-14-08 10:53 AM   #79 
  - No it's not.  aranthus   Aug-13-08 12:52 PM   #55 
  - Israel destroyed it  number6   Aug-13-08 08:37 PM   #68 
     - You ARE aware, are you not  eyl   Aug-14-08 01:45 AM   #70 
     - yes  number6   Aug-18-08 05:45 PM   #125 
     - And you think that the Arabs of that time were rushing to support it?  LeftishBrit   Aug-14-08 03:10 AM   #71 
     - The truth from Arab lips  aranthus   Aug-14-08 05:13 PM   #86 
        - I'm guessing this *truth* came from some pro-Israel website?  Violet_Crumble   Aug-15-08 07:31 AM   #88 
           - Let's cut to the chase.  aranthus   Aug-15-08 12:50 PM   #90 
              - Myth: Mitchell Bard is a historian....  Violet_Crumble   Aug-16-08 08:19 AM   #98 
                 - Is this an example of you "shooting the messenger" ?  oberliner   Aug-16-08 05:59 PM   #105 
                    - No I was correcting the claim made by the poster that he's a historian....  Violet_Crumble   Aug-16-08 06:20 PM   #107 
  - Eternal friction  Hyuke4   Aug-11-08 08:26 AM   #2 
  - It's going to be either two state or no state. There realistically is  pegleg   Aug-11-08 10:38 PM   #30 
     - Sure seems like the current gov't is intent on no state. nt  ProgressiveMuslim   Aug-12-08 05:53 AM   #33 
        - I would agree  sabbat hunter   Aug-12-08 12:24 PM   #38 
           - I was referring to the gov't of Israel, with its insatiable settlement expansion. nt  ProgressiveMuslim   Aug-13-08 06:14 AM   #44 
              - seems like  sabbat hunter   Aug-13-08 06:57 AM   #45 
              - The Israeli Right sometimes seems to prefer 'no state'  LeftishBrit   Aug-13-08 07:19 AM   #46 
                 - At the moment, the best we could hope for is three states nt  Vegasaurus   Aug-13-08 07:48 AM   #47 
                 - No, I'd argue that every gov't in power since 1967 has shown its intentions  ProgressiveMuslim   Aug-13-08 09:26 AM   #49 
                    - I said the right, not the extreme right  LeftishBrit   Aug-13-08 10:03 AM   #52 
                       - The best endorsement the "right" or "extreme right" have in Israeli politics  Vegasaurus   Aug-13-08 10:58 AM   #53 
                       - I always say...  LeftishBrit   Aug-13-08 11:09 AM   #54 
                       - And so you agree that settlement expansion has been a feature of every gov't that's had power  ProgressiveMuslim   Aug-13-08 01:12 PM   #56 
                       - It is the Israeli "Palestine Pac-man Policy". No "agreement" will end it.  wurzel   Aug-13-08 02:34 PM   #59 
                          - They could stop their violent resistance and declare themselves a state  Vegasaurus   Aug-13-08 04:44 PM   #61 
                          - I'm curious as to what you're basing these new talking points on? nt  ProgressiveMuslim   Aug-13-08 05:21 PM   #62 
                          - Same talking points I have always had  Vegasaurus   Aug-13-08 05:41 PM   #64 
                          - Their "violent resistance" to what?  wurzel   Aug-14-08 09:30 AM   #75 
                             - To Israel's existence.  aranthus   Aug-14-08 05:24 PM   #87 
                                - I've got no doubt there's 'much more' where that came from. Here's the link...  Violet_Crumble   Aug-15-08 07:41 AM   #89 
                                - No it's not.  aranthus   Aug-15-08 01:19 PM   #93 
                                   - No, it's not? Are you saying that it's not a partisan source?  Violet_Crumble   Aug-16-08 08:28 AM   #99 
                                      - No, that is not what I meant.  aranthus   Aug-16-08 10:12 PM   #110 
                                - Of course they wanted to destroy the future Israeli state.  wurzel   Aug-15-08 12:57 PM   #91 
                                   - arabs supporting Palestinian arabs?..wow thats a new version...  pelsar   Aug-15-08 01:07 PM   #92 
                                   - Those occupations didn't matter  Vegasaurus   Aug-16-08 06:48 AM   #97 
                                   - What a stupid thing to say...  Violet_Crumble   Aug-16-08 08:38 AM   #101 
                                      - They do? Those occupations or worldwide misery or genocides perpetrated by others?  Vegasaurus   Aug-16-08 10:18 AM   #102 
                                         - You expect people to 'rail on and on' about occupations long over?  Violet_Crumble   Aug-16-08 06:30 PM   #109 
                                            - Hit a nerve, I guess! NT  Vegasaurus   Aug-18-08 11:36 AM   #122 
                                            - Yeah, I forgot you automatically *know* everything about other DUers...  Violet_Crumble   Aug-20-08 08:41 AM   #131 
                                   - The spoils of war...  Violet_Crumble   Aug-16-08 08:33 AM   #100 
                                   - Thank you for admitting all my points.  aranthus   Aug-15-08 01:45 PM   #94 
                          - Violent resistance or nonviolent resistance, accompanied by world-wide sanctions, boycotts and  ProgressiveMuslim   Aug-13-08 05:23 PM   #63 
                       - More "baloney" slicing?  wurzel   Aug-17-08 09:15 AM   #112 
                          - They are groups with different political viewpoints  LeftishBrit   Aug-17-08 09:31 AM   #113 
                             - Yes . But one group is always being used to excuse another.  wurzel   Aug-17-08 12:44 PM   #114 
                                - You don't see any distinction being made by Israel between Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Palestinians?  oberliner   Aug-17-08 12:57 PM   #115 
                                - I am talking about this forum. Not the Israelis.  wurzel   Aug-18-08 10:43 AM   #118 
                                   - "I see no such distinctions made by Israelis between Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Palestinians"  oberliner   Aug-18-08 11:17 AM   #120 
                                      - We are combining three different posts.  wurzel   Aug-19-08 11:45 AM   #127 
                                         - I refuse to accept such a double standard either...  LeftishBrit   Aug-19-08 12:06 PM   #128 
                                         - Thanks for the clarification  oberliner   Aug-19-08 01:35 PM   #129 
                                - I also disagree intensely with those who equate 'Palestinians' with 'Hamas' or 'Hezbollah'!  LeftishBrit   Aug-17-08 01:38 PM   #116 
 

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