Dick Dastardly
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Mon Aug-11-08 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
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I'm simply stating the reality that has unfolded on the ground right now. It is headed for a single state in my view, and in fact it already is a single state. There is one established State in the region, Israel, and there are two large reservation camps. There will not be two-states, because it is too late. Israel has captured too much land beyond it's borders, and there will be no agreement as to how much of that captured land Israel can keep. Israel will keep taking more and more and Palestinians will be asked to 'compromise' with less and less. So it's not that I advocate or support anything here. It's just a statement of the reality as I see it, and furthermore I believe others ought to start seeing it too whether we like it or not, lest we continue grasping to some dream that has now passed us by. The question we ought to be placing our attention to right now is what to do with the reality of a single state and two large reservation camps.
Israel left Gaza so there is less land overall that is part of a settlement than before. The settlements in the WB occupy less than 3% of the WB so How is it a reality that has unfolded? How has the 2 state passed by? Can you show us your reasoning of the facts that made you conclude all this? Just stating it without your factual reasoning behind it maens nothing. Text
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| -Palestinians doubt two-state deal |
subsuelo |
Aug-11-08 07:59 AM |
#0 |
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Two-state is already dead |
subsuelo |
Aug-11-08 08:00 AM |
#1 |
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Single state |
sabbat hunter |
Aug-11-08 08:45 AM |
#3 |
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And very likely that many Palestinians are dead, too. |
LeftishBrit |
Aug-11-08 08:50 AM |
#4 |
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My position is just one step beyond that statement. |
subsuelo |
Aug-11-08 10:05 AM |
#9 |
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I don't see how they have prevented a two-state solution |
LeftishBrit |
Aug-11-08 10:21 AM |
#13 |
  -
Would you not agree then ... |
subsuelo |
Aug-11-08 01:37 PM |
#23 |
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I think it will become more difficult |
LeftishBrit |
Aug-11-08 01:48 PM |
#24 |
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Not if the Jews maintain political power. How about this solution? |
wurzel |
Aug-11-08 10:01 AM |
#8 |
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Diaspora or Jim Crow? |
azurnoir |
Aug-11-08 12:14 PM |
#14 |
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Do you have a better solution? |
wurzel |
Aug-11-08 12:53 PM |
#17 |
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You think the Palestinians would accept that? |
LeftishBrit |
Aug-11-08 12:34 PM |
#16 |
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Do they have a choice? |
wurzel |
Aug-11-08 09:33 PM |
#29 |
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Lebanon II? |
pelsar |
Aug-12-08 12:40 PM |
#39 |
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Would that be acceptable for |
ProgressiveMuslim |
Aug-12-08 05:51 AM |
#32 |
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I don't know what you mean by "latecomers to the land". |
wurzel |
Aug-12-08 02:42 PM |
#40 |
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Exactly. Would shipping them all elsewhere be an option? |
ProgressiveMuslim |
Aug-13-08 09:26 AM |
#50 |
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You have no argument from me on that. If it was possible. |
wurzel |
Aug-13-08 02:22 PM |
#57 |
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So you support ethnic cleansing of Jews? |
Behind the Aegis |
Aug-13-08 02:31 PM |
#58 |
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No. I support giving Palestine back to the Palestinians. |
wurzel |
Aug-14-08 09:10 AM |
#72 |
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So you support a "limited" ethnic cleansing? |
Behind the Aegis |
Aug-14-08 01:38 PM |
#80 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Aug-14-08 02:34 PM |
#81 |
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Wow. |
Vegasaurus |
Aug-13-08 04:42 PM |
#60 |
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Post 8 *did* suggest (possibly voluntary, but still..) ethnic cleansing of Arabs |
LeftishBrit |
Aug-13-08 05:45 PM |
#65 |
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The "ethnic cleansing of Arabs" has already occurred. |
wurzel |
Aug-14-08 09:17 AM |
#73 |
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Israel even dump sewage on them n/t |
subsuelo |
Aug-14-08 10:47 AM |
#78 |
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Israel dumps sewage on them? |
oberliner |
Aug-14-08 04:42 PM |
#84 |
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There are over a million Arabs living in Israel nt |
oberliner |
Aug-14-08 04:30 PM |
#83 |
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Already occurred? Then how come the percentage of Israeli Arabs in the population is INCREASING? |
LeftishBrit |
Aug-14-08 04:51 PM |
#85 |
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talking,..? Israel has done it. |
number6 |
Aug-13-08 08:35 PM |
#67 |
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What a load of propaganda BULLSHIT. |
Behind the Aegis |
Aug-13-08 11:58 PM |
#69 |
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you know its not "propaganda BULLSHIT" |
number6 |
Aug-18-08 05:50 PM |
#126 |
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Oh but it is. |
Behind the Aegis |
Aug-19-08 02:36 PM |
#130 |
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Rules?? Did you actually read your own post? |
wurzel |
Aug-14-08 09:24 AM |
#74 |
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You think that the Jews should be shipped elsewhere? |
oberliner |
Aug-14-08 09:59 AM |
#76 |
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Shipping the Jews elsewhere? |
oberliner |
Aug-14-08 10:00 AM |
#77 |
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I find this disturbing on so many levels |
Vegasaurus |
Aug-14-08 02:36 PM |
#82 |
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Not acceptable for either group, so back to the drawing board, I'd say! |
LeftishBrit |
Aug-13-08 05:48 PM |
#66 |
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Can you describe what this single state ought to look like in your opinion? |
oberliner |
Aug-11-08 08:59 AM |
#5 |
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No, I really can't |
subsuelo |
Aug-11-08 10:00 AM |
#7 |
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Hate to break it to you, Subsuelo |
Vegasaurus |
Aug-11-08 01:16 PM |
#18 |
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Did you read a single word I wrote? |
subsuelo |
Aug-11-08 01:30 PM |
#21 |
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Every word |
Vegasaurus |
Aug-11-08 07:46 PM |
#27 |
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Here is my response as to what we ought to be focused on |
oberliner |
Aug-11-08 05:39 PM |
#25 |
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Great post! ITA! |
LeftishBrit |
Aug-12-08 02:31 AM |
#31 |
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oberliner, there was a time I would have agreed wholeheartedly |
subsuelo |
Aug-12-08 11:36 AM |
#36 |
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I still would like to know what your dream or vision is |
oberliner |
Aug-12-08 03:23 PM |
#41 |
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Full return to 67 borders and 2 state plan worked out |
subsuelo |
Aug-12-08 08:12 PM |
#42 |
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What is is about Israeli behavior that gives you such a hope? |
wurzel |
Aug-18-08 11:04 AM |
#119 |
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How so? |
Dick Dastardly |
Aug-11-08 08:02 PM |
#28 |
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Israel controls far more than 3% of the West Bank... |
Violet_Crumble |
Aug-12-08 07:50 AM |
#34 |
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At last a voice of reason. I was beginning to despair. |
wurzel |
Aug-15-08 05:29 PM |
#95 |
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Oh, so the Palestinians are like Holocaust survivors, is that what you are saying? |
Vegasaurus |
Aug-16-08 06:45 AM |
#96 |
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It is not "history" to me. |
wurzel |
Aug-16-08 03:25 PM |
#103 |
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You said "Jews AFTER WW II" |
Vegasaurus |
Aug-16-08 03:51 PM |
#104 |
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Can you read? Why are you so hysterical? |
wurzel |
Aug-16-08 06:25 PM |
#108 |
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Ignore all you like |
Vegasaurus |
Aug-18-08 07:12 AM |
#117 |
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I know this is your favorite meme |
Vegasaurus |
Aug-11-08 09:13 AM |
#6 |
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I'm not "calling for" anything. |
subsuelo |
Aug-11-08 10:06 AM |
#10 |
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You haven't answered the questions |
Vegasaurus |
Aug-11-08 10:16 AM |
#11 |
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What you are asking is what we should all be asking |
subsuelo |
Aug-11-08 10:17 AM |
#12 |
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To half the people that matter, it's a non-question |
Vegasaurus |
Aug-11-08 01:23 PM |
#19 |
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Then why keep stealing more and more from the Palestinians? |
subsuelo |
Aug-11-08 01:30 PM |
#20 |
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Wow just wow |
azurnoir |
Aug-16-08 06:16 PM |
#106 |
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Your parsing leaves much to be desired |
eyl |
Aug-17-08 02:17 AM |
#111 |
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Try not misreading, why don't you |
Vegasaurus |
Aug-18-08 11:28 AM |
#121 |
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And which half are you in? n/t |
azurnoir |
Aug-18-08 02:04 PM |
#124 |
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I don't think anyone was saying that only 'half of the people matter' |
LeftishBrit |
Aug-18-08 12:06 PM |
#123 |
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your opinion is not reality. Why so many people can't grasp that |
cali |
Aug-11-08 06:28 PM |
#26 |
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No, I am stating the reality. |
subsuelo |
Aug-12-08 11:29 AM |
#35 |
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Yes, there is one Jewish state |
Vegasaurus |
Aug-12-08 12:00 PM |
#37 |
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The destruction of Israel |
azurnoir |
Aug-11-08 12:29 PM |
#15 |
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It's great fun to try to compare your "apartheids" |
Vegasaurus |
Aug-11-08 01:32 PM |
#22 |
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LOL I missed this gem |
azurnoir |
Aug-12-08 09:34 PM |
#43 |
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There are 4.5 million Palestinian refugees |
Vegasaurus |
Aug-13-08 07:53 AM |
#48 |
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Here is one Palestinian refugee that understands some of the |
Phx_Dem |
Aug-13-08 10:01 AM |
#51 |
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So now we're back to they're all Arabs so what's the |
azurnoir |
Aug-14-08 10:53 AM |
#79 |
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No it's not. |
aranthus |
Aug-13-08 12:52 PM |
#55 |
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Israel destroyed it |
number6 |
Aug-13-08 08:37 PM |
#68 |
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You ARE aware, are you not |
eyl |
Aug-14-08 01:45 AM |
#70 |
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yes |
number6 |
Aug-18-08 05:45 PM |
#125 |
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And you think that the Arabs of that time were rushing to support it? |
LeftishBrit |
Aug-14-08 03:10 AM |
#71 |
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The truth from Arab lips |
aranthus |
Aug-14-08 05:13 PM |
#86 |
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I'm guessing this *truth* came from some pro-Israel website? |
Violet_Crumble |
Aug-15-08 07:31 AM |
#88 |
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Let's cut to the chase. |
aranthus |
Aug-15-08 12:50 PM |
#90 |
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Myth: Mitchell Bard is a historian.... |
Violet_Crumble |
Aug-16-08 08:19 AM |
#98 |
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Is this an example of you "shooting the messenger" ? |
oberliner |
Aug-16-08 05:59 PM |
#105 |
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No I was correcting the claim made by the poster that he's a historian.... |
Violet_Crumble |
Aug-16-08 06:20 PM |
#107 |
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Eternal friction |
Hyuke4 |
Aug-11-08 08:26 AM |
#2 |
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It's going to be either two state or no state. There realistically is |
pegleg |
Aug-11-08 10:38 PM |
#30 |
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Sure seems like the current gov't is intent on no state. nt |
ProgressiveMuslim |
Aug-12-08 05:53 AM |
#33 |
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I would agree |
sabbat hunter |
Aug-12-08 12:24 PM |
#38 |
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I was referring to the gov't of Israel, with its insatiable settlement expansion. nt |
ProgressiveMuslim |
Aug-13-08 06:14 AM |
#44 |
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seems like |
sabbat hunter |
Aug-13-08 06:57 AM |
#45 |
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The Israeli Right sometimes seems to prefer 'no state' |
LeftishBrit |
Aug-13-08 07:19 AM |
#46 |
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At the moment, the best we could hope for is three states nt |
Vegasaurus |
Aug-13-08 07:48 AM |
#47 |
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No, I'd argue that every gov't in power since 1967 has shown its intentions |
ProgressiveMuslim |
Aug-13-08 09:26 AM |
#49 |
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I said the right, not the extreme right |
LeftishBrit |
Aug-13-08 10:03 AM |
#52 |
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The best endorsement the "right" or "extreme right" have in Israeli politics |
Vegasaurus |
Aug-13-08 10:58 AM |
#53 |
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I always say... |
LeftishBrit |
Aug-13-08 11:09 AM |
#54 |
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And so you agree that settlement expansion has been a feature of every gov't that's had power |
ProgressiveMuslim |
Aug-13-08 01:12 PM |
#56 |
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It is the Israeli "Palestine Pac-man Policy". No "agreement" will end it. |
wurzel |
Aug-13-08 02:34 PM |
#59 |
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They could stop their violent resistance and declare themselves a state |
Vegasaurus |
Aug-13-08 04:44 PM |
#61 |
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I'm curious as to what you're basing these new talking points on? nt |
ProgressiveMuslim |
Aug-13-08 05:21 PM |
#62 |
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Same talking points I have always had |
Vegasaurus |
Aug-13-08 05:41 PM |
#64 |
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Their "violent resistance" to what? |
wurzel |
Aug-14-08 09:30 AM |
#75 |
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To Israel's existence. |
aranthus |
Aug-14-08 05:24 PM |
#87 |
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I've got no doubt there's 'much more' where that came from. Here's the link... |
Violet_Crumble |
Aug-15-08 07:41 AM |
#89 |
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No it's not. |
aranthus |
Aug-15-08 01:19 PM |
#93 |
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No, it's not? Are you saying that it's not a partisan source? |
Violet_Crumble |
Aug-16-08 08:28 AM |
#99 |
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No, that is not what I meant. |
aranthus |
Aug-16-08 10:12 PM |
#110 |
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Of course they wanted to destroy the future Israeli state. |
wurzel |
Aug-15-08 12:57 PM |
#91 |
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arabs supporting Palestinian arabs?..wow thats a new version... |
pelsar |
Aug-15-08 01:07 PM |
#92 |
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Those occupations didn't matter |
Vegasaurus |
Aug-16-08 06:48 AM |
#97 |
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What a stupid thing to say... |
Violet_Crumble |
Aug-16-08 08:38 AM |
#101 |
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They do? Those occupations or worldwide misery or genocides perpetrated by others? |
Vegasaurus |
Aug-16-08 10:18 AM |
#102 |
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You expect people to 'rail on and on' about occupations long over? |
Violet_Crumble |
Aug-16-08 06:30 PM |
#109 |
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Hit a nerve, I guess! NT |
Vegasaurus |
Aug-18-08 11:36 AM |
#122 |
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Yeah, I forgot you automatically *know* everything about other DUers... |
Violet_Crumble |
Aug-20-08 08:41 AM |
#131 |
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The spoils of war... |
Violet_Crumble |
Aug-16-08 08:33 AM |
#100 |
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Thank you for admitting all my points. |
aranthus |
Aug-15-08 01:45 PM |
#94 |
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Violent resistance or nonviolent resistance, accompanied by world-wide sanctions, boycotts and |
ProgressiveMuslim |
Aug-13-08 05:23 PM |
#63 |
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More "baloney" slicing? |
wurzel |
Aug-17-08 09:15 AM |
#112 |
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They are groups with different political viewpoints |
LeftishBrit |
Aug-17-08 09:31 AM |
#113 |
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Yes . But one group is always being used to excuse another. |
wurzel |
Aug-17-08 12:44 PM |
#114 |
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You don't see any distinction being made by Israel between Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Palestinians? |
oberliner |
Aug-17-08 12:57 PM |
#115 |
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I am talking about this forum. Not the Israelis. |
wurzel |
Aug-18-08 10:43 AM |
#118 |
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"I see no such distinctions made by Israelis between Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Palestinians" |
oberliner |
Aug-18-08 11:17 AM |
#120 |
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We are combining three different posts. |
wurzel |
Aug-19-08 11:45 AM |
#127 |
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I refuse to accept such a double standard either... |
LeftishBrit |
Aug-19-08 12:06 PM |
#128 |
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Thanks for the clarification |
oberliner |
Aug-19-08 01:35 PM |
#129 |
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I also disagree intensely with those who equate 'Palestinians' with 'Hamas' or 'Hezbollah'! |
LeftishBrit |
Aug-17-08 01:38 PM |
#116 |