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Reply #87: That's what I'm trying to hone in on: how can reasonable people look at the same [View All]

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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #86
87. That's what I'm trying to hone in on: how can reasonable people look at the same
Edited on Fri Feb-29-08 10:55 AM by ProgressiveMuslim
set of facts and draw such different conclusions:

I think pro-Palestinian folks look at that history and locate the problem as the land expropriation.

Pro-Israel folk loook and see identify the problem as the reaction to the takeover.

Those patterns continue to this day. Pelsar, you're a prime example, with your continued stupefication regarding the resistance out of Gaza... and suggestions to 'stop the violence' so we can get back to the status quo of 2006 -- which may have been good for Israel, but from teh Palestinian POV...
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  -UN expert: Palestinian terror 'inevitable' result of occupation bemildred  Feb-26-08 11:55 AM   #0 
  - And this is a surpise to anyone?  PDJane   Feb-26-08 12:02 PM   #1 
  - Oh, I can assure you that it will be a surprise to many on this board  Crunchy Frog   Feb-26-08 12:05 PM   #2 
  - Before the Intifada and suicide bombings there were no roadblocks as now  Dick Dastardly   Feb-26-08 07:31 PM   #37 
     - "the main cause of the conflict"  subsuelo   Feb-26-08 09:18 PM   #44 
        - Sure I thought about it but its not what caused it  Dick Dastardly   Feb-26-08 10:12 PM   #48 
           - The Jews stole no land?  Violet_Crumble   Feb-26-08 10:16 PM   #49 
              - Denial is always the follow up to truth being told  subsuelo   Feb-26-08 10:22 PM   #51 
              - What I don't get is how anyone could deny Israel has seized Palestinian land...  Violet_Crumble   Feb-26-08 10:27 PM   #52 
              - Especially for those who cant back up their claims  Dick Dastardly   Feb-26-08 11:09 PM   #55 
              - There were no Israelis then, It was Arab and Jewish players.  Dick Dastardly   Feb-26-08 10:52 PM   #54 
                 - When? How come yr the only person who's going on about pre-Israel times?  Violet_Crumble   Feb-27-08 06:02 AM   #63 
                    - We were talking about the main cause of the conflict.  Dick Dastardly   Feb-27-08 05:37 PM   #73 
                       - And one of the main causes of the conflict is the dispossession of the Palestinians...  Violet_Crumble   Mar-01-08 05:23 AM   #88 
                          - Sub claimed the Jews stole the land back in pre Israel days.  Dick Dastardly   Mar-01-08 04:31 PM   #90 
                             - They said nothing of the sort...  Violet_Crumble   Mar-01-08 06:23 PM   #91 
                                - Exactly, we were talking about the main cause that started the conflict  Dick Dastardly   Mar-01-08 06:58 PM   #92 
                                   - Well, reading what people actually post is what I do...  Violet_Crumble   Mar-01-08 07:13 PM   #93 
  - Makes sense. nt  thereismore   Feb-26-08 12:05 PM   #3 
  - Yeah, it's almost like there is some sort of pattern to these things. nt  bemildred   Feb-26-08 12:08 PM   #4 
  - This made me chuckle...  breakaleg   Feb-26-08 12:15 PM   #5 
  - Maybe because  eyl   Mar-05-08 06:42 AM   #95 
  - Dugard is not the least bit qualified  Phx_Dem   Feb-26-08 12:25 PM   #6 
  - He looks far more qualified to do so than many others I've seen comment on the conflict...  Violet_Crumble   Feb-26-08 04:23 PM   #21 
  - John Dugard  bemildred   Feb-26-08 05:10 PM   #24 
     - He is a lawyer  Phx_Dem   Feb-26-08 05:39 PM   #27 
        - No shit, a lawyer?  bemildred   Feb-26-08 05:47 PM   #28 
           - He's writing in an official capacity for the UN  Phx_Dem   Feb-26-08 06:16 PM   #32 
              - Look, there is no requirement for expressing an opinion.  bemildred   Feb-26-08 06:21 PM   #33 
                 - And he'd make more sense as well.  Jim Sagle   Feb-26-08 09:41 PM   #46 
                    - Speak of the devil. nt  bemildred   Feb-27-08 01:04 AM   #58 
                       - All you really need is love.  Jim Sagle   Feb-27-08 06:36 AM   #65 
                          - Its a Small World  bemildred   Feb-27-08 07:59 AM   #67 
  - If we accept this argument...  subsuelo   Feb-26-08 12:37 PM   #7 
  - Actions and situations may be both "inexcusable" and "inevitable".  bemildred   Feb-26-08 12:53 PM   #9 
  - Good points  subsuelo   Feb-26-08 02:29 PM   #12 
     - Sure, why would you not?  bemildred   Feb-26-08 03:33 PM   #15 
        - "How could you deny that it works the same both ways?"  subsuelo   Feb-26-08 03:39 PM   #17 
           - That works for me. nt  bemildred   Feb-26-08 03:45 PM   #18 
  - ITA - great post!  LeftishBrit   Feb-26-08 01:40 PM   #11 
  - Here's what I fundamentally don't understand:  ProgressiveMuslim   Feb-26-08 02:46 PM   #13 
     - I never said both sides are equally responsible  subsuelo   Feb-26-08 02:49 PM   #14 
     - What "huge immoral act" are you referring to?  Phx_Dem   Feb-26-08 03:38 PM   #16 
        - the partition plan was not the immoral act.  PDJane   Feb-26-08 04:17 PM   #20 
        - Res 181 was only implemented by the Israelis  Phx_Dem   Feb-26-08 05:32 PM   #26 
        - That isn't what I said, and you're not listening.  PDJane   Feb-26-08 05:49 PM   #29 
           - You are wrong  Dick Dastardly   Feb-26-08 08:12 PM   #40 
        - Your facts are incorrect.  Shaktimaan   Feb-27-08 12:29 AM   #57 
           - Could you post some more info on this compensation?  Violet_Crumble   Feb-27-08 06:06 AM   #64 
              - sure  Shaktimaan   Feb-28-08 11:25 AM   #79 
                 - Wonder if the Arabs compensated the Jews that they chased out of all their countries  Vegasaurus   Feb-28-08 12:40 PM   #80 
                 - I noticed there were no references in there to support his claims...  Violet_Crumble   Mar-01-08 05:30 AM   #89 
        - It's obvious that PM is talking about the occupation...  Violet_Crumble   Feb-26-08 04:36 PM   #22 
           - Abbas does support 2 states  Phx_Dem   Feb-26-08 05:26 PM   #25 
              - No, it couldn't.  PDJane   Feb-26-08 05:54 PM   #31 
  - hypocrisy of Israel's UN Ambassador  subsuelo   Feb-26-08 12:44 PM   #8 
  - Come come, Mr Levanon is a dispassionate and objective observer  bemildred   Feb-26-08 03:53 PM   #19 
  - And Israeli govt. terror against the civilian population is a natural requirement  Tom Joad   Feb-26-08 01:12 PM   #10 
  - I couldn't find the report on the website...  Violet_Crumble   Feb-26-08 04:38 PM   #23 
  - here  Behind the Aegis   Feb-26-08 05:51 PM   #30 
     - I'm getting a weird error message when I click on it n/t  Violet_Crumble   Feb-26-08 07:40 PM   #38 
        - OK..try this.  Behind the Aegis   Feb-26-08 10:21 PM   #50 
           - Thanks. That got me to the report...  Violet_Crumble   Feb-27-08 04:45 AM   #60 
  - East Timor was brutally occupied for 25 years by Indonesia  oberliner   Feb-26-08 06:30 PM   #34 
  - I don't see your point.  bemildred   Feb-26-08 06:47 PM   #35 
  - This piece suggests that Palestinian terrorism is inevitable due to the Occupation  oberliner   Feb-26-08 08:46 PM   #42 
     - I think he's speaking in the specific case, I don't think he's proposing a general rule.  bemildred   Feb-27-08 01:16 AM   #59 
        - Dugard seems to be making a broader statement  oberliner   Feb-27-08 07:53 AM   #66 
        - That was not my take.  bemildred   Feb-27-08 08:23 AM   #68 
        - Why would terrorism be "inevitable" in I/P  Vegasaurus   Feb-27-08 09:43 AM   #69 
           - I believe Mr Dugard addresses what he thinks the reasons are.  bemildred   Feb-27-08 10:06 AM   #71 
  - I hope yr not thinking that the answer is no...  Violet_Crumble   Feb-26-08 07:27 PM   #36 
     - I am stunned by your characterization of this organization  oberliner   Feb-26-08 08:42 PM   #41 
        - Then you'll be even more aghast when I tell you I supported Fretilin...  Violet_Crumble   Feb-26-08 09:05 PM   #43 
           - Sorry about the Australian MSM line  oberliner   Feb-26-08 09:22 PM   #45 
              - Maybe back in the 1970's it did, but I was too young to be taking notice of the MSM then...  Violet_Crumble   Feb-26-08 09:49 PM   #47 
                 - Some say it's going on even today  oberliner   Feb-26-08 11:52 PM   #56 
                    - The indymedia link raises an important issue...  Violet_Crumble   Feb-27-08 05:46 AM   #62 
  - I wish Israel and Palestine could get along  Tinita   Feb-26-08 07:42 PM   #39 
  - Of course  Shaktimaan   Feb-26-08 10:47 PM   #53 
     - ... which is an inevitable consequence of Israeli tyranny over Palestine.  ProgressiveMuslim   Feb-27-08 05:34 AM   #61 
        - except that palestinian terrorism came first. np  Shaktimaan   Feb-27-08 09:50 AM   #70 
        - It's time for reasonable people to take an honest look at historical facts.  ProgressiveMuslim   Feb-27-08 12:03 PM   #72 
           - Reasonable people don't only see the world through one lens  Vegasaurus   Feb-27-08 06:17 PM   #74 
              - Reasonable people see through absurd propaganda and look for historical fact. nt  ProgressiveMuslim   Feb-28-08 05:11 AM   #75 
                 - Do you disagree that it was the Arabs who began the violence in the 20's? np  Shaktimaan   Feb-28-08 11:07 AM   #78 
                    - I think successive waves of aliyah began the conflict. nt  ProgressiveMuslim   Feb-29-08 08:34 AM   #83 
        - what truly boggles my mind is that almost EVERY significant early Zionist understood  Douglas Carpenter   Feb-28-08 09:05 AM   #76 
           - A couple of questions  Lithos   Feb-28-08 10:25 AM   #77 
              - I would suspect  Douglas Carpenter   Feb-28-08 10:58 PM   #81 
                 - i think thats a good description....  pelsar   Feb-29-08 02:28 AM   #82 
                 - I think it's interesting that both pelsar and Shakti  ProgressiveMuslim   Feb-29-08 08:39 AM   #84 
                    - people moving around  pelsar   Feb-29-08 09:55 AM   #85 
                       - Moving around is not the problem. Moving around with the purposes of taking over is.  breakaleg   Feb-29-08 09:58 AM   #86 
                          - That's what I'm trying to hone in on: how can reasonable people look at the same  ProgressiveMuslim   Feb-29-08 10:55 AM   #87 
                 - Excellent post  Lithos   Mar-03-08 02:07 AM   #94 

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