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Reply #66: I am not sure I completely buy the rosy picture of Israeli democracy... [View All]

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Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU
UndertheOcean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-06-07 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. I am not sure I completely buy the rosy picture of Israeli democracy...
Compared to middle eastern standard , yeah sure its a democracy .... South Africa compared to ME standards was a democracy.

Wasn't directed military rule over Israeli Arabs only lifted in 1980 or so.

But if compared to Western Democratic standards , it falls short in my opinion
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  -Amnesty urges Israel to tear down West Bank separation fence bemildred  Jun-03-07 10:17 AM   #0 
  - Only the parts beyond the green line should be torn down and rebuilt on said line.  UndertheOcean   Jun-03-07 10:25 AM   #1 
  - Well, it does say "West Bank separation fence".  bemildred   Jun-03-07 10:29 AM   #2 
     - They aren't neighbors, they are occupier and occupied.  Tom Joad   Jun-03-07 01:25 PM   #3 
        - Hi Tom, how are you?  bemildred   Jun-03-07 01:33 PM   #4 
  - 'Amnesty Israel must resign'  Scurrilous   Jun-03-07 05:27 PM   #5 
  - NGO monitor is a biased propaganda organ. nt  bemildred   Jun-03-07 05:32 PM   #6 
  - If I were an Israeli...  rayofreason   Jun-03-07 10:55 PM   #7 
  - why not have the fence on the green line instead of occupied territory..  UndertheOcean   Jun-04-07 05:29 AM   #8 
  - Israel rejects Amnesty report urging end to West Bank fence  breakaleg   Jun-04-07 10:28 AM   #9 
     - big deal....  pelsar   Jun-04-07 11:34 AM   #10 
        - And that's because these are all areas in which Israel is operating against International law.  breakaleg   Jun-04-07 11:41 AM   #11 
        - intl law?  pelsar   Jun-04-07 12:37 PM   #16 
        - Is that not a valid point being made?  parkia00   Jun-04-07 12:11 PM   #12 
        - the 67 border...  pelsar   Jun-04-07 12:33 PM   #15 
           - If it's a choice between building the wall in such a way that it separates Palestinians from their  breakaleg   Jun-04-07 01:02 PM   #18 
           - your right..it is a no brainer..  pelsar   Jun-04-07 03:02 PM   #20 
              - It's not protecting Israelis, it's protecting settlements.  Donald Ian Rankin   Jun-05-07 06:46 AM   #24 
                 - What makes you think this?  Shaktimaan   Jun-06-07 09:14 AM   #51 
           - Well , settlement on occupied land is illegal , so pull the  UndertheOcean   Jun-04-07 06:36 PM   #22 
              - not quite.  Shaktimaan   Jun-06-07 09:19 AM   #52 
                 - Ok , so give the palestinians the same voting rights as the settlers...  UndertheOcean   Jun-06-07 12:11 PM   #55 
                    - Well, they already do.  Shaktimaan   Jun-06-07 12:34 PM   #57 
                    - Yeah , but there are no US settlers settling in Iraq and demanding to annex parts of it to the USA!  UndertheOcean   Jun-06-07 12:51 PM   #61 
                    - That is because  Shaktimaan   Jun-06-07 04:16 PM   #69 
                       - No , I'm not suggesting that , they can live there , under palestinian rule..  UndertheOcean   Jun-06-07 04:45 PM   #75 
                          - If you know the history behind all this,  Shaktimaan   Jun-06-07 07:45 PM   #82 
                          - OK, but why  Shaktimaan   Jun-06-07 07:58 PM   #84 
                             - What other alternative there is ? The UN partition plan ?  UndertheOcean   Jun-06-07 09:58 PM   #85 
                                - Why are you thinking of the green line  Shaktimaan   Jun-06-07 11:12 PM   #86 
                    - This doesn't look like 95% to me , what I see is cantons  UndertheOcean   Jun-06-07 12:56 PM   #62 
                       - That map is area.  Shaktimaan   Jun-06-07 04:19 PM   #70 
                          - So basically the palestinians are squeezed into their crowded cities and towns and not  UndertheOcean   Jun-06-07 04:25 PM   #71 
                             - Well now you are just making stuff up.  Shaktimaan   Jun-06-07 05:08 PM   #76 
                                - How many checkpoints where dismantled , and how many are there ?  UndertheOcean   Jun-06-07 05:17 PM   #78 
                    - They already have the right to the vote that has the most . .  msmcghee   Jun-06-07 12:46 PM   #60 
                       - So if Israelis elect an ultra wing party like the one headed by Avigdor Lieberman ome day...  UndertheOcean   Jun-06-07 01:00 PM   #63 
                          - Israel has been a democracy since its founding in 1948.  msmcghee   Jun-06-07 01:16 PM   #65 
                             - I am not sure I completely buy the rosy picture of Israeli democracy...  UndertheOcean   Jun-06-07 01:30 PM   #66 
                                - No.  Shaktimaan   Jun-06-07 04:06 PM   #68 
                                   - 1966 , thanks for the correction.  UndertheOcean   Jun-06-07 04:40 PM   #73 
                                      - Wonderful!  Shaktimaan   Jun-06-07 05:13 PM   #77 
                                      - Ok , here is is from Wikipedia :  UndertheOcean   Jun-06-07 05:27 PM   #80 
                                      - And if you don't like wikipedia , here is something from the Jerusalem Post  UndertheOcean   Jun-06-07 05:31 PM   #81 
                                      - Whats not true about what I said ?  UndertheOcean   Jun-06-07 05:23 PM   #79 
                                      - Of course.  Shaktimaan   Jun-06-07 07:49 PM   #83 
                                      - ...  eyl   Jun-07-07 06:26 AM   #87 
                                         - thank you for not dismissing my comments o of hand ...  UndertheOcean   Jun-07-07 08:49 AM   #88 
                                            - Because  eyl   Jun-08-07 10:04 AM   #89 
        - I think that's somewhat illogical.  Donald Ian Rankin   Jun-04-07 12:15 PM   #13 
           - the overflights...just some info..  pelsar   Jun-04-07 12:29 PM   #14 
           - Don't they also create sonic booms with no other purpose than to terrorize the population?  breakaleg   Jun-04-07 01:03 PM   #19 
              - yes it must be terrorism.....  pelsar   Jun-04-07 03:38 PM   #21 
           - the line of argument ....  pelsar   Jun-04-07 12:42 PM   #17 
              - So how low is Israel willing to go below intl law. ?  UndertheOcean   Jun-04-07 06:45 PM   #23 
              - No, it ought to do what is right.  Donald Ian Rankin   Jun-05-07 06:55 AM   #25 
                 - whos morality...and whos values....  pelsar   Jun-05-07 03:03 PM   #26 
                 - Who said Israel is not allowed to respond? Where can you show me that international law says such a  breakaleg   Jun-05-07 03:30 PM   #29 
                 - i believe it was you who criticizes all israeli responses...  pelsar   Jun-05-07 07:28 PM   #35 
                    - If not the settlers, then who were you referring to? Who is in danger if the wall is built along  breakaleg   Jun-05-07 08:48 PM   #38 
                       - thats nothing more than a cop out....  pelsar   Jun-06-07 03:42 PM   #67 
                 - I've argued with you elsewhere as to how I think Israel should protect itself; you didn't agree.  Donald Ian Rankin   Jun-05-07 06:37 PM   #31 
                    - and thats why intl law is a farce....  pelsar   Jun-05-07 07:22 PM   #34 
                    - This is an insane statement.  Shaktimaan   Jun-05-07 08:44 PM   #37 
                    - they have that right because they are occupied by Israel. basic stuff.  breakaleg   Jun-05-07 08:53 PM   #40 
                       - OK.  Shaktimaan   Jun-05-07 09:13 PM   #44 
                          - So, you are saying Israel has a right to occupy Palestinian land but Palestinians don't have the  breakaleg   Jun-05-07 09:17 PM   #45 
                             - Who cares what I think.  Shaktimaan   Jun-05-07 09:35 PM   #46 
                                - The UN Charter recognizes the right to self-determination.  breakaleg   Jun-05-07 09:58 PM   #48 
                                   - I read this four times...  Shaktimaan   Jun-05-07 11:00 PM   #50 
                    - a few questions...  Shaktimaan   Jun-05-07 09:47 PM   #47 
                 - please...this is really garbage....  pelsar   Jun-05-07 03:18 PM   #27 
                 - your disdain for Palestinians appears to be clouding your judgement.  breakaleg   Jun-05-07 03:27 PM   #28 
                 - my disdane for the palestenians....?  pelsar   Jun-05-07 06:57 PM   #32 
                 - The equation was deliberate.  Donald Ian Rankin   Jun-05-07 06:24 PM   #30 
                    - and you ignore the palestenains who voted...  pelsar   Jun-05-07 07:15 PM   #33 
                       - that's like saying the people who voted for Bush voted for the war, even though  breakaleg   Jun-05-07 08:21 PM   #36 
                          - so then...  Shaktimaan   Jun-05-07 08:58 PM   #42 
                          - additionally,  Shaktimaan   Jun-05-07 10:01 PM   #49 
                 - problem.  Shaktimaan   Jun-05-07 08:51 PM   #39 
                    - I saw a bit of news today in which the reporter said something to the effect of  breakaleg   Jun-05-07 08:55 PM   #41 
                       - convince who?  Shaktimaan   Jun-05-07 09:07 PM   #43 
                          - there are Ph d's in biology who believe in biblical creationism,  Douglas Carpenter   Jun-06-07 09:29 AM   #53 
                             - Almost every ruling or decision against the fence...  Shaktimaan   Jun-06-07 10:44 AM   #54 
                                - but every other independent--international legal body hold the same opinion though  Douglas Carpenter   Jun-06-07 12:19 PM   #56 
                                   - Like what other legal bodies?  Shaktimaan   Jun-06-07 12:36 PM   #58 
                                      - The International Committee of the Red Cross for one  Douglas Carpenter   Jun-06-07 12:43 PM   #59 
                                      - unfortunately, the PDF file (the first one) does not open for me for some reason  Douglas Carpenter   Jun-06-07 01:15 PM   #64 
                                         - It's wonky.  Shaktimaan   Jun-06-07 04:35 PM   #72 
                                            - rather over the top language.on the front page  Douglas Carpenter   Jun-06-07 04:45 PM   #74 
 

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