Violet_Crumble
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Tue Mar-20-07 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #36 |
| 38. Yeah, it is dangerous shit... |
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I don't see any purpose served in the way of resistance by denying the Holocaust. It just ends up making people look stupid or much worse. I'd be guessing that most of the Israeli Arabs polled who claim it didn't happen know full well it did happen and are saying it didn't coz of that stupid ailment that afflicts some Palestinians and Israelis where they try to claim the high ground when it comes to suffering and for them to acknowledge that the other side has suffered at all is a sign of weakness. In the case of Palestinians, they would see the Holocaust as being the reason that Israel was created and if they pretend it didn't happen, in their eyes Israel loses its legitimacy. In the case of Israelis denying the Nakba (and I'm not trying to equate the two as I know the Holocaust was genocide and was on a whole different scale than anything else), it's because to acknowledge what was done to the Palestinians would involve admitting that the Palestinians have suffered and also involve rejecting the Israeli version of events that are tied so closely to their nation-building myths (most countries have them - one of ours was Gallipoli). So rather than face what are in both cases historical facts, they find it easier to bury their heads in the sand and think that if they deny the suffering of the *other* while claiming the mantle of suffering exclusively for themselves, the *other* will vanish in a puff of smoke and life will be peachy...
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| -Poll: Over 25% of Israeli Arabs say Holocaust never happened |
oberliner |
Mar-18-07 05:57 PM |
#0 |
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I believe it did happen. |
Old Crusoe |
Mar-18-07 06:00 PM |
#1 |
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But is also said in the article that the sentiments about the Holocaust could be a |
breakaleg |
Mar-18-07 06:06 PM |
#2 |
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That is no excuse. If anything it's worse. |
cali |
Mar-18-07 07:38 PM |
#5 |
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What that survey tells me, is that there is tons of anger and resentment. |
ProgressiveMuslim |
Mar-19-07 06:25 AM |
#17 |
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Sorry, that doesn't excuse |
cali |
Mar-19-07 07:05 AM |
#18 |
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There are so many layers to this that I find fascinating. |
ProgressiveMuslim |
Mar-19-07 07:57 AM |
#19 |
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I think the reasons are important. |
breakaleg |
Mar-19-07 08:24 AM |
#20 |
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a holocaust museum in Nazetheth |
pelsar |
Mar-19-07 08:51 AM |
#21 |
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Taking responsibility is great. |
ProgressiveMuslim |
Mar-19-07 09:07 AM |
#22 |
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i dont think "apologising" is the answer for anyone |
pelsar |
Mar-19-07 11:32 AM |
#23 |
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we both know if Hamas recognized israel today |
ProgressiveMuslim |
Mar-19-07 01:31 PM |
#24 |
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Looks like no matter what the country about 30% of the population |
cassiepriam |
Mar-18-07 06:17 PM |
#3 |
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Exactly What I Was Going To Say |
lligrd |
Mar-18-07 07:20 PM |
#4 |
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Nope. The figure is higher amoung those with more |
cali |
Mar-18-07 07:41 PM |
#6 |
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Fundamentalism? |
ellisonz |
Mar-18-07 08:12 PM |
#7 |
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Were you expecting immortality? |
msmcghee |
Mar-18-07 08:41 PM |
#8 |
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About it being a death cult version of religion? |
ellisonz |
Mar-18-07 09:13 PM |
#10 |
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Could you explain something to me, Cali? |
Bryan Sacks |
Mar-19-07 11:12 PM |
#32 |
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Regardless of Cali's answer to your question . . |
msmcghee |
Mar-19-07 11:54 PM |
#33 |
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Bryan Sacks, where is your answer? |
msmcghee |
Mar-20-07 12:52 PM |
#41 |
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I think there is a point where evidence is so overwhelming and compelling |
Douglas Carpenter |
Mar-20-07 12:31 AM |
#34 |
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Self delete. Server problems. n/t |
msmcghee |
Mar-20-07 06:04 PM |
#53 |
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I have never run into any sane person deny that . . |
msmcghee |
Mar-20-07 06:06 PM |
#54 |
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there were hundreds of thousands of eye witnesses who do know what happened |
Douglas Carpenter |
Mar-20-07 06:54 PM |
#55 |
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What you provide is evidence for one view . . |
msmcghee |
Mar-20-07 07:41 PM |
#56 |
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I am impressed that 31% of Israeli Jews realize that expulsion of the Palestinians |
Douglas Carpenter |
Mar-20-07 08:36 PM |
#58 |
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Maybe you could give us a link to the . . |
msmcghee |
Mar-20-07 09:07 PM |
#59 |
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obviously I don't have the exact written testimony of ever single refugee |
Douglas Carpenter |
Mar-20-07 09:42 PM |
#62 |
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Douglas, you said . . |
msmcghee |
Mar-20-07 10:50 PM |
#64 |
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by any rational definition what transpired would have been called |
Douglas Carpenter |
Mar-21-07 07:42 AM |
#69 |
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Thanks for finally addressing the future solution instead . . |
msmcghee |
Mar-21-07 10:12 AM |
#75 |
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I absolutely agree the future is the issue |
Douglas Carpenter |
Mar-21-07 10:22 AM |
#77 |
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the israeli view is probably the most realistic... |
pelsar |
Mar-21-07 12:19 AM |
#68 |
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the Jerusalem Post (originally Palestine post until 1950) completely supported the Zionist forces |
Douglas Carpenter |
Mar-23-07 03:17 AM |
#79 |
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Some additional thoughts. |
msmcghee |
Mar-20-07 07:53 PM |
#57 |
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a little balance.... |
pelsar |
Mar-21-07 12:11 AM |
#66 |
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those particular newspapers were hardly a neutral source |
Douglas Carpenter |
Mar-21-07 07:51 AM |
#71 |
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Look, I think the assertion that the Holocaust doesn't |
cali |
Mar-20-07 04:34 AM |
#36 |
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Yeah, it is dangerous shit... |
Violet_Crumble |
Mar-20-07 08:00 AM |
#38 |
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appreciate your answer, Cali. Thanks. |
Bryan Sacks |
Mar-20-07 02:24 PM |
#42 |
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I see I wasn't so wrong about the . . |
msmcghee |
Mar-20-07 02:55 PM |
#43 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Mar-20-07 04:22 PM |
#47 |
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if people only knew the truth about the Palestinian people |
Douglas Carpenter |
Mar-20-07 04:56 PM |
#48 |
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I'd hate to take up too much of your time, but . . |
msmcghee |
Mar-20-07 05:15 PM |
#49 |
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Well, here's one misconception, for starters |
Bryan Sacks |
Mar-20-07 10:04 PM |
#63 |
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The topic of this sub-thread - and what I have been . . |
msmcghee |
Mar-20-07 11:34 PM |
#65 |
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My words? I quoted your words! Please re-read your post. |
Bryan Sacks |
Mar-21-07 10:47 AM |
#78 |
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Well, of course one CAN say all sorts of things... |
LeftishBrit |
Mar-21-07 07:54 AM |
#72 |
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There are no absolutes; are you a Kantian about these things, or something? |
Bryan Sacks |
Mar-23-07 01:37 PM |
#82 |
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I find this question puzzling |
LeftishBrit |
Mar-21-07 07:50 AM |
#70 |
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It is not OK for those in a position of public trust to lie to their own people |
Bryan Sacks |
Mar-23-07 01:25 PM |
#81 |
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I wonder what percentage of Israeli Jews say the Nakba never happened. |
Tom Joad |
Mar-18-07 08:45 PM |
#9 |
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actually I did find a poll on that issue awhile ago |
Douglas Carpenter |
Mar-19-07 12:04 AM |
#11 |
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"Quick! Look over there!" |
Behind the Aegis |
Mar-19-07 01:32 AM |
#12 |
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Naw. Just a point about how |
Shaktimaan |
Mar-19-07 02:19 AM |
#13 |
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His response was so predictable, it's laughable |
leftynyc |
Mar-19-07 04:59 AM |
#14 |
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You don't disappoint. |
cali |
Mar-19-07 05:44 AM |
#15 |
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They've gotta quit teaching Hate in their schools |
ProgressiveMuslim |
Mar-19-07 06:15 AM |
#16 |
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Anti-Semitic education persists in PA |
oberliner |
Mar-19-07 05:15 PM |
#25 |
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The Myth of Incitement in Palestinian Textbooks by Hanan Ashrawi |
Douglas Carpenter |
Mar-19-07 06:51 PM |
#26 |
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The myth of peace-promoting Palestinian textbooks, by HRC. |
msmcghee |
Mar-19-07 09:04 PM |
#27 |
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Is that from FrontPageMag? |
Englander |
Mar-20-07 07:35 AM |
#37 |
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I should have included the link. Sorry. |
msmcghee |
Mar-20-07 10:05 AM |
#39 |
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A pro-Iraq war politician is not a credible source. |
Tom Joad |
Mar-20-07 05:41 PM |
#50 |
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LOL! |
msmcghee |
Mar-20-07 05:46 PM |
#52 |
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Not a fan of subtle humour, or satire, obviously? |
Englander |
Mar-21-07 08:01 AM |
#73 |
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"You've Come A Long Way, Baby." |
Englander |
Mar-23-07 07:43 AM |
#80 |
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Palestinian textbooks: Where is all that 'incitement'? International Herald Tribune |
Douglas Carpenter |
Mar-19-07 09:19 PM |
#28 |
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These seem to be dated articles. |
msmcghee |
Mar-19-07 10:15 PM |
#31 |
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Well, my money is on HRC... |
Andromeda |
Mar-20-07 01:59 AM |
#35 |
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Lots of Israeli-PAC money on her too, obviously. |
ProgressiveMuslim |
Mar-20-07 03:59 PM |
#45 |
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That's all she cares about. |
Tom Joad |
Mar-20-07 05:42 PM |
#51 |
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When giving public lectures, I've learned to have a copy of Nathan |
Malikshah |
Mar-19-07 09:55 PM |
#29 |
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thank you. here is the link to Nathan Browns' detailed research |
Douglas Carpenter |
Mar-19-07 10:01 PM |
#30 |
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Thanks for the thanks, but they should go to Nathan Brown & others |
Malikshah |
Mar-20-07 10:39 AM |
#40 |
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Teaching facts would be helpful as well! n/t |
ProgressiveMuslim |
Mar-20-07 03:55 PM |
#44 |
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I agree-- the questions that arise however are |
Malikshah |
Mar-20-07 09:22 PM |
#61 |
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Sounds like you speak from experience. |
msmcghee |
Mar-20-07 04:05 PM |
#46 |
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Woozle wuzzle? You kind of lost me half way through with the permutations |
Malikshah |
Mar-20-07 09:19 PM |
#60 |
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Thanks for your views of the study of history. |
msmcghee |
Mar-21-07 12:12 AM |
#67 |
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I can see what you're saying-- Brown in my opinion though has |
Malikshah |
Mar-21-07 08:01 AM |
#74 |
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Thanks for your response. |
msmcghee |
Mar-21-07 10:17 AM |
#76 |